EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[Ootohere]

You are clueless actually.

I have seen real poverty in Dundee, children where their junkie mother or father dies, overdoes or Aids, and who ever is left caring supposedly put them out in the morning with nothing to roam the streets, go to the library, community centre or what ever.

Soiled clothes on, beg for food and do what ever. Excluded from school or not sent to school/

Where Social Workers & Community workers were sitting in offices in the same buildings as these kids got banned from and clueless to their plight.

I have known plenty in homeless units or on the streets and know people now that are in that situation.

 

I have lived for long periods with less than £100 a week money. Had over £100 to then have it cut to £71.

Lived with receipt of  benefits that governments changed, and changed again, put from DHSS, to DWP, to HMRC,

Invalidity Allowance, Incapacity allowance, FIS, Family Allowance, Disabled and Working Tax Credits, Child Tax Credits, Income Support, Housing Benefit etc, Milk Tokens, Vitamin Drop tokens, even Vouchers for Butter when there was a Butter Mountain in the 1980's, and that was a Government scheme to those on Family Income Support,

& while in full time and Job Share work as a single parent. On Minimum wage and when a pay rise came in that could put me 50 pence over and then benefits or allowances could be lost. Systems changed, payment dates put back, refused benefits and then months of appeals, tribunals & then back payments received which results in being told i had been overpaid, then clawing back.

That was while always while helping others make claims and assisting them get benefits or allowances and more income than me while they never worked and maybe had never held a job.  Having a partner from and with family from a former Communist Central European country gives me a little knowledge of migrants and economic migrants. 

 

Edited 26 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, Headinawayoffski said:

You are clueless actually.

I have lived for long periods with less than £100 a week money. Had over £100 to then have it cut to £71.

Lived with receipt of  benefits that governments changed, and changed again, put from DHSS, to DWP, to HMRC,

Invalidity Allowance, Incapacity allowance, FIS, Family Allowance, Disabled and Working Tax Credits, Child Tax Credits, Income Support, Housing Benefit etc, Milk Tokens, Vitamin Drop tokens, even Vouchers for Butter when there was a Butter Mountain in the 1980's, and that was a Government scheme to those on Family Income Support,

& while in full time and Job Share work as a single parent. On Minimum wage and when a pay rise came in that could put me 50 pence over and then benefits or allowances could be lost. Systems changed, payment dates put back, refused benefits and then months of appeals, tribunals & then back payments received which results in being told i had been overpaid, then clawing back.

That was while always while helping others make claims and assisting them get benefits or allowances and more income than me while they never worked and maybe had never held a job.  Having a partner from and with family from a former Communist Central European country gives me a little knowledge of migrants and economic migrants. 

 

I must have got the total wrong end of your stick, You seemed to have been saying there was plenty of money going round.

 

[CWARD]

2 minutes ago, S00perb said:

I must have got the total wrong end of your stick, You seemed to have been saying there was plenty of money going round.

 

 

He seems to be putting his perspective over on the debate as someone who has experienced it first hand rather than just read about it. 

[Ootohere]

There is plenty money going around.

Sh!t loads.  & plenty being sanctioned, disabled losing Motability Cars when having to go over to PIP and refused, then car returned, 5 months later after appeal new car needs ordered, or some just do not get the PIP.

 

There are plenty needy and in Poverty, even in wealthy areas.

Plenty Slum Landlords or just Buy to let getting good Housing Benefit payments.   There is a very un-equal society, but do not make out the UK is Skint.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37993399 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39290592 

Classic FM Owner Plans To Create £200 Million Super-Flat In Knightsbridge.mhtml

Edited 26 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[@Lee]

Quote

Worker shortages could cause supply chain disruption in 2018, NFU warns

Food will either go unpicked or rot. Prices will go up.
https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/worker-shortages-could-cause-supply-chain-disruption-in-2018-nfu-warns/

[Ootohere]

^^^ That is the biggest issue of all. 

The one that will cause much more problems than Banks & Financial Institutions moving headquarters out of the UK and those in the financial services.

 

The UK Government and Shoppers were never concerned as long as produce was cheap. Now it seems to matter...

 

Edited 26 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[@Lee]

Quote

Theresa May was put on the spot today after David Davissuggested she had not bothered to read the “excruciating detail” of secret Whitehall studies into the impact of Brexit.

So, further proof, as if more were needed, that the impact reports do exist. And TM has only seen 'a summary'. 
 

Quote

“Well, she’ll know the summary outcomes of them,” 

Likewise the rest of the Cabinet have only seen 'a summary'.
 

Quote

Asked if the rest of the Cabinet had seen the assessments, Mr Davis said: “No, they won’t, they will have seen the summary outcomes, that’s all.”

Where's the golden opportunity, the unicorns, the trade with the rest of the world?
If the Cabinet have only seen a 'summary' how ****ing bad are these reports?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-does-not-know-how-brexit-will-hit-economy-david-davis-says-a3668491.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/eloise-todd/the-truth-about-brexit-theresa-may_b_18358020.html
up **** creek, the paddle went a long time ago and the coxswains blind.

[S00perb]

6 hours ago, Headinawayoffski said:

 

There are plenty needy and in Poverty, even in wealthy areas.

Plenty Slum Landlords or just Buy to let getting good Housing Benefit payments.   There is a very un-equal society, but do not make out the UK is Skint.

 

 

100% with you there. Its the unequality that is crucifying people. The CONS have used the 'all in it together' mantra when it was really 'were alright jack'

Personally (and I know many don't have the same views), I think we are in for worse inequality under a CON party that has no one stopping them remove the last of the safety nets that many survive on. From Maternity leave, holiday pay and sick pay are all prtected and were brought in by  the EU for all members. The CONS would love to water these down and has many times shown that they will when they can get away with it. Every exception the UK has negotiated with the EU in the past has been to the detriment of workers. Take the working time directive; UK got an exception clause put in that stated that if a UK worker wanted to sign these rights away, we could work all the hours we wanted. Sounds good? Well you just don't get a job in my industry unless you sign these rights away. Result, employer gains, worker looses. Time after time we get fooled into voting  our own rights away. Brexit is the biggest one.

If we leave the EU court system, who will be the last line of defence to those who are currently jumping through hoops in the vain hope they will get universal credit? UK courts. Independent? Hopefully. For ever independent? Who knows. I would prefer the EU court to be outside the system and make final decisions.

[lol-lol]

Working down in Southampton today with the key scommercial software house for BREXIT and listening to WAVE 105 and they had a great peice on Paloma Faith and her new Album and single ie Giulty.   Paloma Faith, who vote leave, now realizes the enormity of the consequences of leaving the largest and local community...

 

"Guilty"
 

I've been a criminal, I made a mistake
Believed in the fictional
Then let everything slip away
I can't accept my faith
Thought the alternative looked so crystal clear
Drowned in the muddy waters
And I'm living in my worst fears
Begging you back through tears

You had this picture of me
And now I have shattered your dreams
I know the drill and I know the truth
And it kills me

Yeah, I'm guilty
Don't come near me
The one thing I'm good at is messing up somebody else
Baby, I'm guilty
I'm turning sweet love into poison
And I got the scars, if you're talking 'bout hurting yourself
Baby, I'm guilty as hell

I sit here all alone, my defense is down
Wishing I could be home
But I'm locked out and it's my fault
[?]
Thought I would be okay without you and I
Now that I realize it was all just an awful lie
Take me back, I might die

You had this picture of me
And now I have shattered your dreams
I know the drill and I know the truth
And it kills me

Yeah, I'm guilty
Don't come near me
The one thing I'm good at is messing up somebody else
Baby, I'm guilty
I'm turning sweet love into poison
And I got the scars, if you're talking 'bout hurting yourself
Baby, I'm guilty as hell

I should've known that I could not go on here without you
Instead of walking away, know that I'll feel terrified
I know I was wrong, now I'm hurting myself, I wish I knew
Please, take me back, I don't wanna believe this goodbye, oh

Yeah, I'm guilty
Don't come near me
One thing I'm good at is messing up somebody else
Baby, I'm guilty as hell

(Yeah, I'm guilty)
Oh, I'm guilty
(Don't come near me)
Don't come near
The one thing I'm good at is messing up somebody else
(Please, forgive me, darling)
Baby, I'm guilty
I'm turning sweet love (I'll turn sweet love) into poison (into poison, oh no)
And I got the scars (oh no), if you're talking 'bout hurting yourself
Baby, I'm guilty as hell

 

 

 

[@Lee]

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

Working down in Southampton today

 

 

Next time you're down, let me know. Be happy to meet for a coffee and a natter. I'm pretty close to the docks.

[@Lee]

Whoops a ****ing daisy..............
 

Quote

Sir Ivan said:

"I did say last autumn I would not agree unequivocally to invoke Article 50 unless you know how Article 50 is going to work because the moment you invoke Article 50, the 27 [other EU countries] dictate the rules of the game and they will set up the rules of the game in the way that most suits them.

Quote

The negotiation deadline in Article 50 is more important than the substance of the talks themselves. Any member of the 28-nation bloc that triggers Article 50 is automatically ejected from the EU with or without a deal after two years. The EU is incentivised to demonstrate to other European countries that exiting the EU leaves you in a worse position than staying inside. So it is actually to the EU's advantage to not negotiate at all, and just let the UK flop out of the EU with no deal.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-strategic-error-triggering-article-50-2017-10

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, S00perb said:

 

100% with you there. Its the unequality that is crucifying people. The CONS have used the 'all in it together' mantra when it was really 'were alright jack'

Personally (and I know many don't have the same views), I think we are in for worse inequality under a CON party that has no one stopping them remove the last of the safety nets that many survive on. From Maternity leave, holiday pay and sick pay are all prtected and were brought in by  the EU for all members. The CONS would love to water these down and has many times shown that they will when they can get away with it. Every exception the UK has negotiated with the EU in the past has been to the detriment of workers. Take the working time directive; UK got an exception clause put in that stated that if a UK worker wanted to sign these rights away, we could work all the hours we wanted. Sounds good? Well you just don't get a job in my industry unless you sign these rights away. Result, employer gains, worker looses. Time after time we get fooled into voting  our own rights away. Brexit is the biggest one.

If we leave the EU court system, who will be the last line of defence to those who are currently jumping through hoops in the vain hope they will get universal credit? UK courts. Independent? Hopefully. For ever independent? Who knows. I would prefer the EU court to be outside the system and make final decisions.

I know, not the ECJ but still relevant. 

[lol-lol]

28 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Next time you're down, let me know. Be happy to meet for a coffee and a natter. I'm pretty close to the docks.

 

I was over at Descartes who are in Totton but there is Datafreight who are in Durley on the other side of Southampton.  Of course there is the container port and CNS, one of the two UK sea freight controlling communities based in Southampton.   Then had to rush up to Heathrow to deal with an issue up there, bonkers time and going to be like this for the next couple of years as we prepare for the circa doubling, quadrupling and more of customs entries.

 

The airfreight community was run by a BT division called Sytegra but I think it may have been spun off now.

 

I'll try and PM you when I am next down.  BT, will do will do well with a huge amount of extra data comms traffic for all these customs declaration.  

  

Edited 26 October, 2017 by lol-lol

[@Lee]

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

I'll try and PM you when I am next down.

  

It'd be appreaciated and welcome. I know Durley. SWMBO used to livery her horse there.

[CWARD]

1 hour ago, S00perb said:

Take the working time directive; UK got an exception clause put in that stated that if a UK worker wanted to sign these rights away, we could work all the hours we wanted. Sounds good? Well you just don't get a job in my industry unless you sign these rights away. Result, employer gains, worker looses. 

 

You cant be forced to opt out.  If you don’t stand up for your rights then it’s pointless having them. It doesn’t matter who is in government or who is the highest court if you don’t exercise your rights. Don’t complain about apathy, whilst doing nothing yourself. 

 

Quote

From Maternity leave, holiday pay and sick pay are all prtected and were brought in by  the EU for all members. The CONS would love to water these down and has many times shown that they will when they can get away with it.

Whilst you’re talking about the EU giving us statutory holidays, I guess you didn’t realise that the EU only states 20 days but it was the UK government that gave us 28 days. 

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-and-paid-holidays/

You shouldn’t believe everything that a Jeremy Corbyn tells you. Best to check what ever he tells you. 

 

Maternity pay. EU is 14 weeks and the UK is 52 weeks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36434855

 

I guess those big bad CONS could have watered down our rights to what the EU guarantees already but didn’t. I guess that some people could at least check the facts before posting a load of rubbish. 

 

 

[CWARD]

28 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

I know, not the ECJ but still relevant. 

 

Not really relevant as the ECHR is not the EU

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_the_European_Court_of_Justice_and_European_Court_of_Human_Rights

 

[@Lee]

2 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

Not really relevant as the ECHR is not the EU

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_the_European_Court_of_Justice_and_European_Court_of_Human_Rights

 

Yeah, I know. I kinda mentioned that when I said "I know, not the ECJ but still relevant".
Pay attention FFS
And FYI, The Maybot has stated she wants to leave the ECHR as well. 
Are you Brex****ters clutching at straws now all the BS you lapped up is being brought to the surface?
Are you getting a nasty taste in your mouth yet? 

[@Lee]

13 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

 

Maternity pay. EU is 14 weeks and the UK is 52 weeks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36434855

 

 

 

Was it not Labour who doubled it from 6 to 12 months? 

[Ryeman]

And Ford isn’t happy either:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20171026/COPY/310269946/ford-swings-to-q3-loss-in-europe-hurt-by-brexit?cciid=email-autonews-blast

[@Lee]

@CWARD The EU GUARANTEES a minimum of 14 weeks across the EU (good). The UK gives 52 weeks. But Germany gives as much as THREE years. FOURTEEN months paid. UP TO 36 paid if you work part time. Some Lande (states/ counties) even top that up.
This is perhaps down to Sovereign laws from individual countries.

 

[CWARD]

21 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Yeah, I know. I kinda mentioned that when I said "I know, not the ECJ but still relevant".
Pay attention FFS
And FYI, The Maybot has stated she wants to leave the ECHR as well. 
Are you Brex****ters clutching at straws now all the BS you lapped up is being brought to the surface?
Are you getting a nasty taste in your mouth yet? 

 

No nasty taste in my mouth as I know the difference between the two and that Brexit referendum had nothing to do with removing ourselves from the ECHR.

[CWARD]

5 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

@CWARD The EU GUARANTEES a minimum of 14 weeks across the EU (good). The UK gives 52 weeks. But Germany gives as much as THREE years. FOURTEEN months paid. UP TO 36 paid if you work part time. Some Lande (states/ counties) even top that up.
This is perhaps down to Sovereign laws from individual countries.

 

 

Good on Germany but again nothing to with what the EU states is the UK minimum as stated by S00perb with his misinformation. 

[@Lee]

@CWARD,

Quote

You cant be forced to opt out.  If you don’t stand up for your rights then it’s pointless having them. It doesn’t matter who is in government or who is the highest court if you don’t exercise your rights. Don’t complain about apathy, whilst doing nothing yourself. 

Quite right, you can't be forced to opt out but have a guess at how many parcels would be delivered, how much shelf stacking would be done, how many inspections of cars in the docks would be carried out etc etc etc if people didn't opt out.
Some people value their jobs too much and have worries about where their foods coming from to not opt out. Kappiche? 

[CWARD]

23 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Was it not Labour who doubled it from 6 to 12 months? 

 

Nope. It came in 2013 under the coalition government and was Nick Clegg who takes credit for it. 

[CWARD]

4 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

@CWARD,

Quite right, you can't be forced to opt out but have a guess at how many parcels would be delivered, how much shelf stacking would be done, how many inspections of cars in the docks would be carried out etc etc etc if people didn't opt out.
Some people value their jobs too much and have worries about where their foods coming from to not opt out. Kappiche? 

 

So what is the point in having rights if you let people abuse you?

 

Having rights but not using is as much use as having a safety harness but clipping it to the safety line! Capeesh?