EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[CWARD]

Lee, you know my work history or is your memory that poor. I’ve never worked for a company that was privatised or nationalised. I have experienced the services of companies before they were privatised and since then not had to buy candles on a regular basis for the power cuts, not had to use a water tanker due to collapsed pipes from a lack of investment or pay to ride in knackered carriages. 

[Eddie-NL]

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

One day, George, that chip will leave your shoulder and you'll be even more unbalanced than you already are.

all that talk about a chip, made me think of this

 

 

[Ryeman]

An example of just how detached from reality Trump’s base is (even when the facts are presented by Fox News) - 

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/he-has-to-go-fox-fans-furious-after-shep-smith-blows-up-right-wing-conspiracy-about-uranium-one/

[S00perb]

Putin
Farage
Trump
Assange
 

Quote

 

Brexit
But last week’s revelations introduce a whole new cast of characters. And at the centre of it all is London – this “neutral city” – playing the same strategic role that Vienna did during the cold war.

“The entire city is a nest of spies,” a British intelligence source told the Observer this year. “There’s more espionage activity here now than there was even at the height of the cold war.”

 

 

What does Russia want? Destabilisation

And certain people seem determioned to fight for that however bad it looks

 

I asked last week, what would it take for a leave campaigner to change their mind. What would drastically m,ake them decide it wasn;t worth it.

Result? A deafening silence.

The question keeps comingup here; What are the positives of Brexit

Result? A deafening silence.

 

Am I the only one that sees any connection between Russian interference and an irrational willingness for self harm?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

 

[Ryeman]

An example of just how detached from reality Trump’s base is (even when the facts are presented by Fox News) -

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/he-has-to-go-fox-fans-furious-after-shep-smith-blows-up-right-wing-conspiracy-about-uranium-one/

[gadgetman]

15 hours ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Is this tosh you speak of with England again forgetting England is not the UK.

Silly me

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fixed+price+conveyancing+Scotland&oq=fixed+price+conveyancing+Scotland+&aqs=chrome..69i57.14188j0j7&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[domhnall]

17 hours ago, lol-lol said:

BREXIT vote was over 444 days ago, lots of new facts have emerged, more than half a million UK people have died and most of them voted leave according to the demographic analysis of voters and more than half a million UK people have turned 18 and according to the demographic analysis about 3/4 of them would vote remain.

 

Leaving the EU will leave the UK economically more isolated as numerous trade agreements, that are currently with the EU, lose the current trade relationship with UK ie Canada, Mexico, South Africa and South Korea and about 30 others.

 

As we have said the EU does not have to do a trade deal with the UK and if they make a condition of that a divorce bill that favours them that is their prerogative.   Because it not explicitly mention in the Lisbon Treaty does not make the EU decision any less valid.

 

As Mark Twain said "

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

 

we also lose the right to transfer data back and forth between the UK and EU. Oh and the single electricity network and market on the island of Ireland suddenly has a dirty great border through the middle of it

 

[domhnall]

54 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

Silly me

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fixed+price+conveyancing+Scotland&oq=fixed+price+conveyancing+Scotland+&aqs=chrome..69i57.14188j0j7&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

you don't have to use a solicitor, you can do it yourself or use anyone you like, same as surgery or dentistry, you don't HAVE to employ someone qualified to do those things, it's just that most people do tend to use someone who is trained, qualified and regulated for the job in hand. Sadly all that costs more than someone less trained. Simples.

It's sufficiently technical and specialised that despite being a qualified solicitor there is no way I would ever undertake a property transaction. I just don't know enough about the process to carry it out competently.  I have no issue with paying people qualified to do things on my behalf if I can't do them myself, whether that be servicing my car, looking after my health, driving the trains I get on or even carrying out legal work. 

George on the other hand divides people into "worthy" (honest hard working people) and "unworthy" (politicians, lawyers and who knows what else who are all crooks and scoundrels who only do what they do in order to line their own pockets).

He's a wind up merchant par excellence, sitting around all day pontificating self righteously about whatever comes up on his screen. 

[CWARD]

I'm sure I kept hearing on here that EU nationals have been abandoning the UK because of all the racism post Brexit

 

Quote

An estimated 2.38 million employees began work between July and September this year - a rise of 112,000 compared with 2016 and the highest number since records began 20 years ago.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41999561

[Ootohere]

Domhnall, 

during 24 years as a Library Assistant  full time and job share i spent a lot of time in front of the screen not just looking for where to find books or help people fill in application or claim forms, also in public, reference / commerce and school / college libraries assisting people as computers were introduced to libraries and learning centres, & a lot of time in library stacks helping research information for Elected Members and Civil Servants and others, reading the newspapers and archiving and also reading and filing Council Minutes and Hansard.

5 days a week of reading the national and international newspapers.

 

As to Solicitors & Lawyers, i helped plenty of them find publications and news reports and articles.

Obviously there are just a few bad apples, yet they never learn. Honourable profession that just gets some bad press. 

Such a small population of a country yet so many chancers in one part of the legal system.

Stuff that comes up is just fake news probably, and stuff not yet uncovered is just not yet public sometimes.

As to politicians, some get jailed, but then some are just playing the system.

The scales of justice are not very well balanced but that is OK with those that are supposed to be making sure that the public are protected, 

just not from some that are not happy with fair recompense for a fair job done but want to skim off more illegally. Turn a blind eye and see, hear and say no evil.  Criminal prosecutions are rare and prison sentences very rare for some in some professions where people using their services expect that they can have total trust.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25695719 

Sauce for the goose some might think.. What was Gordon Brown doing when he had the power to see that laws were changed, 

or at least justice seen to be done? Bankers do not work without working with the bank of financial institutions lawyers.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41807475 

Six solicitors struck off by tribunal in last financial year _ HeraldScotland.mhtml

Looking after their own. Or not, who knows!

Revealed_ Five lawyers disciplined by Law Society over deals which could mask mortgage fraud.. but none reported to prosecutors - Daily Record.mhtml

Edited 15 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[@Lee]

Oh dear so sad. £100K out of pocket  
 

Quote

Nigel Farage 'forced to retract remarks about anti-fascist group Hope Not Hate after losing £100k legal battle'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-hope-not-hate-anti-fascist-court-case-undemocratic-violent-ukip-lose-withdraw-statement-a8054276.html

[@Lee]

To all you fine Brexiteers.
Please be upstanding for your national anthem

 

[lol-lol]

Followers of Russian news events and anniversaries.

 

This month (November 2017), is the actual the month to celebrate the 100 years since the Russian "October" revolution (as Russia was still using the Julian calendar and had not switched to the Gregorian Calendar) so the dates recorded in Russian history are a couple of weeks off compared to the Western calendar.

 

Dosvedanya. 

 

[lol-lol]

Honda says it could not absorb 10% tariff after Brexit

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171109/COPY01/311099892/honda-says-it-could-not-absorb-10-percent-tariff-after-brexit

 

November 9, 2017 @ 10:38 am    Costas Pitas     Reuters

 

LONDON -- Honda cannot afford the 10 percent export tariff that would be imposed on its British-built cars if Britain had to return to World Trade Organization rules after Brexit, it said on Thursday.   The warning is the latest from a car industry worried Britain might lose access to the European Union's single market and customs union when it leaves the bloc in 2019.  The auto industry has been a rare manufacturing success story for Britain, with production reaching a 17-year high in 2016. But with Brexit talks at an impasse, several of its mostly foreign-owned manufacturers have warned they might have to move work elsewhere if favorable trading terms are not maintained.   "A 10 percent tariff would make our vehicles uncompetitive, and would impose costs we cannot afford to absorb," Honda said in a submission to parliament's business committee.

 

The Japanese carmaker builds around 8 percent of Britain's 1.7 million cars at its southern English plant in Swindon.

Ministers have repeatedly said they will seek a deal which guarantees the freest possible trade with the EU, the car industry's biggest export market.  Honda, which has been less vocal on Brexit than its peers over recent months, also said any work on customs could divert funds from rolling out greener vehicles.

 

 

[S00perb]

An interesting view from Rotterdam  Port

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41986090

Quote

When you factor in suppliers and ancillary businesses, the UK is responsible for 4% of the Dutch economy. So an end to free trade between the two, the imposition of tariffs or other barriers, could well make a dent in Dutch growth figures.

Yet paradoxically, this threat offers potential support to a key argument deployed by the pro-Brexit side. In the run-up to the referendum, they insisted it would be easy to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, on the basis that "they need us as much as we need them."

With the Netherlands and other countries vulnerable to the consequences of a hard Brexit, Britain might indeed be seen to have leverage in any negotiations.

It was a suggestion I made to the Dutch minister for European affairs, Anne Mulder. Was it time, I asked, for the Netherlands and other influential EU nations to offer the UK more concessions, given all would suffer from a breakdown of talks?

The Dutch have a reputation for politeness, and I was expecting a reply laden with diplomatic euphemism. What I got was a surprisingly pithy denunciation of Britain's politicians, and their approach to the Brexit negotiations:

"Some of them are unrealistic, they are not rational… they are always saying the ball is in the EU's court. Well there's a great big ball in their court, but they don't want to see, because they are blind."

And what about the claim that the EU needs the UK just as much as the UK needs the EU?

"If you want to dream, do it at night," he suggested.

When it comes to those UK-EU negotiations, it seems the current betting here is on failure.

 

[lol-lol]

27 minutes ago, S00perb said:

An interesting view from Rotterdam  Port

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41986090

 

 

Knowledgeable international logistics industry insiders are predicted Holland will benefit from BREXIT as it will been a big recipient of goods that would have gone via the UK when the UK was within  the EU and a viable European Distribution centre for certain types of but would no longer be post BREXIT and Holland is so good at doing European Union Transit movements  already with half of Germany's goods going through Holland so adding part of the UK's previous trade will be fairly straight forward for them.  We have office at both Rotterdam and Schiphol and I expect my Dutch colleagues to be even busier post BREXIT as will the French and other Northern European ports in Belgium and Germany.       

 

[Eddie-NL]

38 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Knowledgeable international logistics industry insiders are predicted Holland will benefit from BREXIT as it will been a big recipient of goods that would have gone via the UK when the UK was within  the EU and a viable European Distribution centre for certain types of but would no longer be post BREXIT and Holland is so good at doing European Union Transit movements  already with half of Germany's goods going through Holland so adding part of the UK's previous trade will be fairly straight forward for them.  We have office at both Rotterdam and Schiphol and I expect my Dutch colleagues to be even busier post BREXIT as will the French and other Northern European ports in Belgium and Germany.       

 

Why?

 

Goods that come from the far east that have a final destination in mainland Europe are not going to be off loaded in Felixstowe

Most of these super container ships stop at several main ports (Felixstowe, Rotterdam & Hamburg)

[Ootohere]

Lots of that cheap 'Rest of World not in the EU' stuff that comes from Amazon to your door but starts its 'delivery' journey in theory from Jersey, Guernsey, IOM and even the Republic of Ireland somehow lands in the British Mainland first does it not?

 

So much to be sorted out on Imports to the UK that is Imported into the UK and then wholesale and retailed in the UK or then for onward travel and Export.

 

The UK Government need to not only sort out just new laws and legislation they need to be sure of the 'Grey Areas' being still in there.

How can the UK be successful without lots of kidology being allowed.

More 'strange' trading using Gibraltar where goods never actually ever touch land need written into any new deals.

Edited 16 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[lol-lol]

59 minutes ago, Eddie-NL said:

Why?

 

Goods that come from the far east that have a final destination in mainland Europe are not going to be off loaded in Felixstowe

Most of these super container ships stop at several main ports (Felixstowe, Rotterdam & Hamburg)

 

Oh yes they are currently.   Most of the firms I deal with are UK/Ireland, European, European-Middle-East Africa (EMEA) or Worldwide Distribution or Manufacturing centres.

 

When trade barriers are introduced for the UK supplying the EU, and to a lesser extent the EU supplying the UK, that is a whole new level of costs, both in cross border during and customs formalities, that will affect the positioning and stock distribution and manufacturing.

 

The UK has good new 20,000 TEU facilities both at Liverpool London Gateway, near Tilbury and at Liverpool, as well as Felixstowe and Southampton.  Before I was customs I was Merchant Navy and have visited all of these ports in UK and European many times over the past 30 years.  My firm is one of the top 5 international logistics companies in Europe and we move almost a million TEUs per year and 600,000 tonnes of airfreight worldwide.   

 

RoRo looks to be the biggest problem rather than air freight or container traffic which is mostly quite easy to shift about and deal with from a customs perspective.      

    

[gadgetman]

1 hour ago, Eddie-NL said:

Why?

 

Goods that come from the far east that have a final destination in mainland Europe are not going to be off loaded in Felixstowe

Most of these super container ships stop at several main ports (Felixstowe, Rotterdam & Hamburg)

Docking charges and where most of the cargo is destined for determine largely which is used. 

 

The problem is there's an awful lot of our goods which come to the UK from  Europe. Just look at the food you buy. 

 

The UK is no longer set up to take up the slack or replace what would become subject to WTO tariffs. 

 

George continual bangs on about money everywhere, so those with it will absorb the taxation quite easily. 

 

It's the average person and those already struggling who will be tipped over the edge as prices rise and jobs are lost. 

 

 

Nothing has changed at all yet, so the public are still behind Brexit and not asking our elected representatives and those who sold us this dud what it really means for them come 2019.

 

I think within the next 6-9 months as businesses finally make their future plans clear the unrest will begin and people start to ask if it's really a good idea. 

[gadgetman]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-educates-brexiteer-buy-british-products/

[Ootohere]

I might bang on about Money, because the whole thing is about money and taxes / duty, tariffs.

Makes the world go around, the economies.

 

The thing is every government or business or the media quotes the cost, 1,000 million this, 1.3 billion that.

Well that is spending, spending money and someone receives it, companies or organisations or individuals.

 

Where the money goes, where the taxes goes is important.

If it stays in the Economy then gets spent then it goes around, trickles down, if it disappears out of the UK, EU, the Banking & Taxing System to some offshore accounts and Registered Companies then maybe it still gets spent, just not in the Economies where it was first worked for, or earned etc.

 

There is so much secrecy of Money Spent, Money Printed and the people who have that money available to them in the end.

Kidology and the Gold is not in Banks in the UK, Germany or other countries in reality, its a numbers game & pyramid banking.

 

Produce in the ground not yet grown already sold and traded many times before ever out of the ground, every step of the process people are getting some money out of that produce before the end users, people or animals get to consume it.

Minerals traded while in the ground and speculators trade on the value.

Oil in tankers held at sea until the wholesale value is right to land that oil, or even take it out the ground.

 

That is how the world economy works, and banking trading.   Always been that way.

 

Being in the Common Market & then the EU has had produce that the UK has in shops more expensive than it needed to be.

 

If you can export and earn profits / money and can then have money to import that is what matters.

The UK Treasury gets lots from alcohol which is H20, some crops grown, time matured and exported.

Lots of profits for time matured and little cost of labour or materials.

Same with many food and drink products, exported at a premium, and import from other countries where their producers get a premium.

Its how its been since the first days of trading, world trading and people buying or trading for food.

People can not all draw their own drinking water, grow their food, or transport what the need.

So Service industries and banking was started and evolved and now its coming up to 2019 and things are changing in the Service Industries in the UK and with its trading partners.

 

Big UK problem, people British Born can be totally dis-interested in doing any hard manual work for £7.50 an hour or less, 

not going to knock their pans in for £300 a week gross and then get deductions in Tax & NI.

Edited 16 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Ootohere]

The real story,  the one the government and those that voted leave need to think about.

Time for Britain to dig for victory, because you reap what you sow, and in the UK that is an issue when the UK has few interested in working in agriculture.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 

They say after Brexit there’ll be food rotting in the fields. It’s already started _ John Harris _ Opinion _ The Guardian.mhtml

Edited 16 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[lol-lol]

Scotland to introduce Minimum Pricing for alcohol  !!!!

 

Scots to commence bootlegging runs to Berwick and Carlisle to stock up on cheap booze  !!!

 

Bring back the Robbie Burns Excise Officer role......

 

 

The Deil's Awa Wi' The Exciseman

1792
Type: Poem

 

 

The deil cam fiddlin' thro' the town,  And danc'd awa wi' th' Exciseman,  And ilka wife cries, "Auld Mahoun,  I wish you luck o' the prize, man."  Chorus-The deil's awa, the deil's awa,  The deil's awa wi' the Exciseman,  He's danc'd awa, he's danc'd awa,  He's danc'd awa wi' the Exciseman.  We'll mak our maut, and we'll brew our drink,  We'll laugh, sing, and rejoice, man,  And mony braw thanks to the meikle black deil,  That danc'd awa wi' th' Exciseman.  The deil's awa, &c.

 

 

[lol-lol]

 

 

Lloyd Blankfein 

 

✔@lloydblankfein

 

Here in UK, lots of hand-wringing from CEOs over #Brexit. Better sense of the tough and risky road ahead. Reluctant to say, but many wish for a confirming vote on a decision so monumental and irreversible. So much at stake, why not make sure consensus still there?

2:40 PM - Nov 16, 2017