insurance valuation nowhere near sale price

[harrylime]

Long story short, I'm looking at buying a 1.4 tsi octavia. The forecourt price is £15000, but having been online for insurance quotes the insurance valuation is coming back at little over £10,000. I am not happy about paying £15000 for a car and getting £10000 if the worse should happen. Please don't suggest gap insurance, as I think we pay enough already and the idea of buying more insurance to cover crap insurance does not appeal to me. Has anyone else looked into this?

Edited 16 February, 2017 by harrylime
confusing some people

[SC03OTT]

What do you mean by the insurance valuation?

 

In the event of a claim your insurer will only pay what the car is worth at the time, not what you paid for it. So it's borderline irrelevant anyway. 

[mk4gtiturbo]

Why would you pay £15k for a car that is valued at £10k?  Seems like the dealer is trying it on.  Plenty more cars about.

 

Actually you have mine if you like, it's only £30k, ok it's only probably worth half that but that's the screen price  

[Ootohere]

The car is not valued at £10,000, that is what WBAC is saying they would give, so if you want one for £10,000 or £10,010 you just need to find a private seller selling one at that price.

 

If you want to buy from a Trader or Dealer maybe do not pay their asking price & do not give them the mark up and profit and do not take advantage of 

their Warranty etc, do what they do, buy at Auction or buy the cars they bought from WBAC's.

Take the risks and save your self money.

Edited 16 February, 2017 by Offski

[harrylime]

I understand that. When you enter all the details for an online quote, the results include the value of the car. It seems clear that the insurance company value the car at that figure. So a £15000 Skoda is valued at £10000, a quote for a £22000 Audi results in a valuation for £14000. Clearly, the insurance company will only pay what a car is worth, but if they value it at two thirds of what I pay for it at the time of taking out the policy, the value (in their eyes) is unlikely to increase between my buying it and my making a claim

 

[harrylime]

Just now, Offski said:

The car is not valued at £10,000, that is what WBAC is saying theu would give, so if you want one for £10,000 or £10,010 you just need to find a private seller selling one at that price.

 

If you want to buy from a Trader or Dealer maybe do not pay their asking price & do not give them the mark up and profit and do not take advantage of 

their Warranty etc, do what they do, buy at Auction or buy the cars they bought from WBAC's.

Take the risks and save your self money.

I understand that. I should not have mentioned WBAC, it's obviously confused the issue and was only done as an exercise. My concern i the insurance company's valuation of 10K for a 15K car, even before the policy is taken out

[Ootohere]

No it hasnt.

You get market value from the insurance company if you have to claim, or you argue you can not buy a replacement at their 'Market Value'.

 

Tell us what you are paying £15,000 for,  it might be too much 2 week before the 17 plates come out, 

cars are all over the country with too high asking prices, they are asking prices not Selling Prices if you can pay less for them.

 

EDIT.

?

Are you trading in a car to a dealer and buying one for £15,000, or what is the deal, 

& as for your cars now, how much are the Insurance Underwriters putting on them as a value if you had to claim for their loss?

Edited 16 February, 2017 by Offski

[harrylime]

10 minutes ago, mk4gtiturbo said:

Why would you pay £15k for a car that is valued at £10k?  Seems like the dealer is trying it on.  Plenty more cars about.

 

Actually you have mine if you like, it's only £30k, ok it's only probably worth half that but that's the screen price  

I don't intend paying the screen price, and I'm not bad at negotiating, but I don't think I'll get it down to 10K. Besides, there seems to be a boit of a shortage of the 1.4 tsi, and dealers will know this

[Ootohere]

You can not get it down to £10,000 because that is a 'OFFER' / QUOTE WBAC makes to those desperate to sell for Cash / Money.

 

You are a private buyer and buying not from a Desperate Seller.  So if you want cheap cars go to an Auction, Bid against Dealers & Traders, 

or find Desperate Sellers.

[harrylime]

5 minutes ago, Offski said:

No it hasnt.

You get market value from the insurance company if you have to claim, or you argue you can not buy a replacement at their 'Market Value'.

 

Tell us what you are paying £15,000 for,  it might be too much 2 week before the 17 plates come out, 

cars are all over the country with too high asking prices, they are asking prices not Selling Prices if you can pay less for them.

the going rate for a 2016 octavia 1.4 tsi seems to be around £15000. The value the insurance company have come up with seems to be based on book value. I can argue with some call centre adviser till I'm blue in the face, that I can't replace the car for that amount but I doubt it would make any difference. Besides, I don't want to potentially put myself in that position.

[Ootohere]

No that is not the going rate, it is the Going at present 'Asking Price'.    The WBAC offer is ridiculous.

 

Have fun, they are not as rare as hens teeth, or worth a premium,  wait 1 month and they will maybe be a better price.

[Ootohere]

?

What do you want, Hatch or Estate, Manual or DSG and what spec?  & are you looking on 

http://autotrader.co.uk 

[flybynite]

If the worst happens you do not have to accept the first offer the insurance company comes up with. 

 

They will obviously try to get away with paying you the least possible. After all why wouldn't they?

 

If you cannot buy a similar car for the money they offer then argue the case. Get copies of as many adverts for realistically similar cars and send it to them with a simple covering letter.

 

Also, you do not have to turn away the first offer made to dispute the amount. Bank the money they send and continue arguing the toss. If they up the payout a bit, bank that too. If you still cannot realistically replace the car for the money carry on arguing your case.

 

If they have short-changed the payout, and you can demonstrate that, you can normally increase it by a reasonable margin.

 

It is a bit of work when you don't need it, persistence is the key. They rely on the majority not doing their homework and taking the first offer.

[harrylime]

All reasonable suggestions. However, do I want to pay what seems to be many thousands over book price for a car? Is the real issue the ridiculous prices being asked? I really don't want to put myself in a position in which I have to argue with insurance companies from a weak position. To be honest, if professional guides indicate a car's value at 10 k, and I pay 15K, the insurance company would have a point. They pay market value, which I'm sure they will define as Glass's guide value.

[Geek42]

Don't define the value of the car by what the insurance search engine robot spits out as fair value. Something's only worth what the seller is prepared to let it go for, or what the buyer is prepared to stump up for it. I bought (a few years ago now) a 1 year old 1.4TSi Elegance hatch with 14k miles on the clock and paid £14,450 for it. I'm not a good negotiator and paid the sticker price, but most similar cars at that time were being advertised for £16k. I could have bought an Avensis for slightly less, but I didn't like it. I could have bought a Fabia for a lot less, but the boot was tiny. Was my car worth £14.5k? It was to me, and 3 years on I'm still more than happy with it. After all, it's a £21k car according to list price, and a new one could be had through a broker for £17.5k, so £14.5k after 1 year seems reasonable.

 

In the meanwhile prices went down (the mk3 became less new) and some time later my brother-in-law bought an almost identical car that was 1 year old at the time for £12.5k, when most similar vehicles were being advertised for £14k. Do I care? Do I think I wasted £2k? No, I chose from what was available at the time.

 

Since diesel-gate the prices for these cars went up a bit again. Such is life.

 

Regarding insurance payouts, they will pay 'market value' and that will be determined at the time of the claim. My wife once wrote off a 7yr old Clio (not worth anything, so not hard to do) and we eventually got £2.5k from the insurers after an initial offer of £1k. All we had to do was find a few examples on Autotrader, get a CAP valuation from our local friendly car dealer (or Ford's website if you want) and e-mail the evidence. Job done. And remember that the insurance payout should be for replacement cost, so franchised dealer prices for a car still in warranty would be a valid yardstick (although it will be comparable prices for the age/mileage it is at the time of the claim, not the age/mileage it was when you bought it).

Edited 16 February, 2017 by Geek42

[WayTooTall]

Also you have the option of buying GAP insurance to cover the difference between the insurance payout for a write off, and what you originally paid for the car. I bought 5 years GAP for about £500 when I bought my VRS.

[Geek42]

33 minutes ago, WayTooTall said:

I bought 5 years GAP for about £500 when I bought my VRS.

 

Wow! I've never bought gap insurance and always considered it another unnecessary expense, but 5 years worth is a lot - the gap will be huge after 5 years!

 

Mind you, my wife and I have 40 years combined driving experience behind us and the almost worthless Clio is the only right off we've had, so maybe it's not a high risk. Or maybe my first one is round the corner, who knows (I'm sure the insurance co actuaries have it all figured out statistically).

[Eddie-NL]

Buy the car and negotiate the best price you can.

 

If in the unlikely event that you do have a total loss, in most accidents the car will be repaired.

Then you need to show the insurance that their opinion of market value is not correct. 

 

Buy the car, enjoy the car, and drive safely would be my advice.

Or as said above buy GAP insurance

[WayTooTall]

It was a good deal. Double checked. it was 5 years for £300, so figured it was worth it. And like you I have I good few years driving experience, but figured at the price it was worth it, given some of the driving I have seen on the roads, and the fact I do a lot of miles.

[glosrich]

Harry buy a new one in stock, the 1.4 SE starts from £16k discounted. Dont go paying that money for a used one.

Have a look at the discounted prices on broadspeed.com to get an idea. 

[ColinD]

IIRC WBAC etc got slapped a few year ago for making 'high' offers then pushing the price way down when you turned up. The outcome is they had to offer 'realistic' prices. Which on first contact is low.  This protects them and increases potential profits. Roughly Iv'e seen skoda main dealers dropping around 1 to 2k onto a tradein car. So if you take 15k as good 'profit' day, then work back and up from the wbac.  Or add 20% to wbac to get you to 12k.

 

Try another valuation tool, or pop into a book shop with a parkers guide.   You can always go in low and work back, take a picnh from mike brewer, always making mad low offers. #walkaway count to five,  wait for the call.

 

Buyers are rarer than cars at the moment!

[gadgetman]

Where are you getting this valuation? 

 

Insurers don't give valuations on quotes. However price comparison sites make "assumptions" to get that headline insurance saving. Typically cutting your cover to do so. This includes higher excesses, lower valuation etc. 

 

If you are using WBAC to get a price, last I checked they're not an insurance company and may often offer much lower than you'll get elsewhere. 

 

A £15k forecourt price would certainly be several £K less if you traded it in. The previous owner would not have been offered £15k as the garage has to make a profit. The previous owner probably only got £12k.

 

Not sure what you are trying to get at here? 

[harrylime]

It was on a comparison site

 

[gadgetman]

1 hour ago, harrylime said:

It was on a comparison site

 

So they used an assumption. You're aware you can alter these and this isn't a valuation as such? 

[SC03OTT]

You're overthinking this. Buy the insurance with the cover you need. Forget this valuation thing. It's irrelevant.