Dash cams/Data protection ?

[vrs red]

As some of you are aware I've been without my car for some time. On getting the car back I decided to reformat the SD card from the dash cam. When loading it in to the laptop there was a lot of room left. On checking further (just looking at date stamps) there is a huge gap. Contacted the dealer who told me they pulled the power lead out. Their techs did not want to be recorded (that's fine) The camera was set to record when the engine was running and stop when the engine did and the notification told you this when starting and stopping the engine. I now have an approximate 5 sec delay between the front and rear cameras (contacted blackvue and currently trying to resolve this)  The service manager said it was all to do with "data protection". The cameras face outwards so driver and passenges are not recorded. So I'm not really sure on the data protection bit. If they'd said, I could've turned the camera off completely.

Without this getting too out of hand, what's your views on this ?

 

Thanks peeps

Edited 25 February, 2017 by vrs red

[Gizmo]

Do what I did... vote with your feet and change dealers, if they have nothing to hide then they will leave them alone.

 

Yes my previous dealer did have something to hide, 100mph on a dual carriageway (I was fine with that as the car was not being thrashed and the road was clear) but later they went through a traffic light that had been on red for over 3 seconds:

 

 

[roaddetective]

As an advanced driver trainer, one of the training companys I do some work for has an app which I have to put on my phone. During any driver training course I have to record a 30sec to 1 minute video of the training I am giving. We do not of course show the participants face, why would you, just aim the camera out the windscreen. When this was introduced we were told to not show faces and try to do all the talking ourselves, "data protection". So data protection includes voices as well. It is meant to show training has taken place, although if I do all the talking without any Q&A, how does anybody know the participant has learned anything. That's data protection for you! So I guess the garage are strictly correct. Still can't resist a little Q&A though. 

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

I have nothing to hide but no one films in my workshop. 

 

Its all too easy for someone to book their car in for a free check and scope the workshop out via the camera to see exactly where our numerous pieces of equipment and tool boxes are or see/hear someone doing something they don't agree with and try to use it against us, I don't jest as it actually happens (frequently).

 

what happens during certain work can be seen as unusual and perceived as wrong doing by the customer when in reality - it's just routine. 

 

There has been a case recently where a dash cam warrior absolutely malleted a Mercedes dealer for how they "mistreated" his car whilst in their care. From what I can gather he plastered it all over the internet, editing the video and implying they had abused his car and called them every name under the sun. 

 

The case went to court and the decision favoured the dealer.

 

i believe the chap now has a ban from their sites and a rather red face. 

 

 

 

[johnrowley]

"Data protection" gets used as an excuse for many many things that it has absolutely nothing to do with and I figure this is one of them. 

 

I would be interested to know what their reasoning is from a data protection point if view is. 

 

My dash cam was disconnected on one visit and not on a subsequent visit. They usually have an mot viewing area you could watch your work from there of course 

[johnrowley]

Though I do agree with James argument but it has absolutely nothing to do with data protection! 

[Satuok]

Quoting the Data Protection Act seems to be commonplace nowadays when in reality it often doesn't come into it.

 

However, as the garage/dealer is a private premises then they are well within their rights to insist on the dash cam being removed. Call it a condition of entry. Much like people complaining about being searched when entering a nightclub; fine, don't allow me to search you, but you're not coming in unless you let me.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

We have a very transparent approach and often invite people in the workshop to see what work we carry out or what faults we find. We have a window and a camera for viewing plus we send a video inspection to every customer. 

 

Like I said - we've nothing to hide but we also have the right not to be spied on. 

 

[Satuok]

As a rule, dash cam footage is exempt from the DPA under s.36 (when on public roads). It's when it's recording private premises it becomes an issue and as stated above the garage are within their rights to insist it's switched off when on their premises.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

5 minutes ago, Satuok said:

Quoting the Data Protection Act seems to be commonplace nowadays when in reality it often doesn't come into it.

 

However, as the garage/dealer is a private premises then they are well within their rights to insist on the dash cam being removed. Call it a condition of entry. Much like people complaining about being searched when entering a nightclub; fine, don't allow me to search you, but you're not coming in unless you let me.

 

Bang on the money.

[vrs red]

So should've been asked to turn off myself, maybe not them pulling the plug and possibly messing up the cameras ! ! 

 

Thanks 

[SkodaVRS1963]

1 hour ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

The case went to court and the decision favoured the dealer.

 

i believe the chap now has a ban from their sites and a rather red face. 

 

 

 

I'm not aware of any court case, why would there be one?  They offered the guy £1,500 and a free service if he signed a confidentiality agreement and he refused.

 

They also sacked the employee concerned.

 

Hardly the actions of a dealer who "ain't done n uffink wrong guv"?

 

I know that particular area very well as I worked there for three years and some of the speeds seen on the video on those roads is borderline reckless driving, particularly given that the area enjoys a large number of visitors to the Mall shopping complex; some of whom have no knowledge of the geography because they're from different cities/towns and so are more likely to change lanes unexpectedly.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

The guy has been banned from all of sytners sites from what I can see.

 

he obviously didn't get the result he wanted so a court case ensued.

 

On the page that reported the latest events about 3 weeks ago (idiot UK drivers exposed) on Facebook it read that the court favoured in the side of the dealer and dismissed the guys claims (expert testimonies etc etc) and that the "pay off" and sacking of the technician involved was just speculation and hearsay written by the Bristol post (at the time). 

 

How true all that is (having been reported on social media) - I don't know, I'm just sharing what I've seen. 

Edited 25 February, 2017 by James@RRGRochdale

[SkodaVRS1963]

Relying on Facebook as a source for reliable information isn't particularly wise

 

HERE is the car dealer's trade magazine's take on it.

[Dr Zoidberg]

2 hours ago, vrs red said:

So should've been asked to turn off myself, maybe not them pulling the plug and possibly messing up the cameras ! ! 

 

Thanks 

 

That does nothing to the camera that's any different to you turning off the ignition, which makes you sound like you are hugely overreacting.
Irrespective of whether the data protection reason has any legal grounding, they are perfectly entitled to say "no filming" for whatever reason they want, and you are perfectly entitled to go elsewhere if that bothers you.

[vrs red]

6 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

 

That does nothing to the camera that's any different to you turning off the ignition, which makes you sound like you are hugely overreacting.
Irrespective of whether the data protection reason has any legal grounding, they are perfectly entitled to say "no filming" for whatever reason they want, and you are perfectly entitled to go elsewhere if that bothers you.

I have no problem with the no filming bit, just a little concerned that the videos were fine before it went in, 6 months down the line it's now not. 

[SkodaVRS1963]

18 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

 

That does nothing to the camera that's any different to you turning off the ignition, which makes you sound like you are hugely overreacting.
Irrespective of whether the data protection reason has any legal grounding, they are perfectly entitled to say "no filming" for whatever reason they want, and you are perfectly entitled to go elsewhere if that bothers you.

 

Exactly.

 

But the logical question most people would ask is "why don't they want me filming them?"

 

Is it the "oil change" "minor service" that costs £195 and yet when I pull the dipstick it reveals a black residue, ergo they've actually done nothing and the oil is the very same the car went in with?

 

And I'm not referring to a Skoda dealer here.

 

Any dealer that tells me they're charging me £200 for 4 hours work and yet won't allow me to view what they've done to earn the £50 an hour (which they've used an apprentice on £4 an hour to perform) can go whistle for their money, irrespective of vehicle marque.

[BATVANVRS]

I'm sure if that was anyone else's vehicle or either one of us was in that guys situation, the first thing we would of done is check the dash cam & then to find what evidence he did we would of all been thankful for the dash cam. Definitely no-way would I of taken the £1500.00 I just don't see the case here personally about recording or leaving the dash cam on while its getting a service.

 

We are all filmed where ever we go, on the way to work, at work, on the way home, etc... & peeps are worried about a little car dash camera recording.

 

I understand points being made above but surly the main underlying fact is that the customer wants piece of mind knowing there dash cam is recording while the vehicle is in the premises getting its service carried out. That's all we want to see on the dash camera, I'm not interested what draw you went too, to get out a set of spanners or VCDS tool etc...That's why you have cctv, intruder alarm on your garage premises workshop etc...

 

The dude buckled the wheel to which I'm sure a few garages would of tried it on with the customer & made the customer feel that it was like that & this is the cost! (& the dudes mannerism towards that showed his integrity & obviously didn't care regardless) 

 

I think from now on just to cover this type of situation from happening to me, I'm going to inform the garage who's working on my car, that I have a dash cam & while my vehicle is with you getting work carried out, I would like for the camera not to be turned off, if they say "no sir we won't work on your vehicle while the dash cam is recording" then straight forward answer for me to go else where.

 

Everyone is just so hyped on all this recording stuff.

 

But yet everybody wouldn't mind being recorded if it brought a little bit of fame their way. 

 

 

[LHVRS]

6 hours ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

 

 

There has been a case recently where a dash cam warrior absolutely malleted a Mercedes dealer for how they "mistreated" his car whilst in their care. From what I can gather he plastered it all over the internet, editing the video and implying they had abused his car and called them every name under the sun. 

 

The case went to court and the decision favoured the dealer.

 

i believe the chap now has a ban from their sites and a rather red face. 

 

 

 

 

I don't use a dashcams and never plan to but I have to admit I'd be pretty ****ed if I put my car in for a service and found out that 1. some doughnut crack my wheel on something and 2, was eating in my car (I don't eat in my car) and took it for a spin with him mate. 

 

I don't know the ins and outs of things but surly you agree they shouldn't have took his car to pop to the shops

 

 

[FluffyEyeball]

I don't think dealer staff or anyone else should just be unplugging equipment without knowing if it will do harm or not, and if they did and broke it i'd expect them to fix it afterwards. However if it had been left on it would not be unreasonable to phone the owner (maybe they forgot to unplug it) and ask if it can be disconnected and if necessary how. If the answer is no then the staff are well within their right to refuse to work on that vehicle or have it in their workshop.

 

I fully agree with James, all to often the majority of 'the public' (which is what we all are to the dealer staff) are far to quick to lay blame and accusations for the slightest little thing that they perceive to be wrong. Nine times out of ten it won't be wrong, but just the 'normal' way of going about things that people would normally be non the wiser to, and would never do them or their car any harm whatsoever; and nine times out of ten the person doing the complaining will have done something(s) or treated their car far worse in the past than the workshop staff have done. 

 

Wrong doing is wrong, yes, and guilty people should be held to account. But I imagine very few people would like their entire day at work, private conversations between colleagues, locations of personal and company possessions, or accidental mistakes (are workshop staff not allowed to make honest mistakes like the rest of us? Does everyone own up to every single mistake they ever make?) recording and made public.

 

It's also really easy to edit a video and falsely use it to try and extract as much money as possible from a company for something that neither they nor their staff have done in the first place.

[vrs red]

Thanks everyone ,

I don't have any problems with turning off the cam (if that's what any worker wants) but you do forget it's there. It was weird to hear the recording notification after 6 months of not having the car, had completely forgot about the cam.

I have the cam for piece of mind when on the road (not for spying on people or trying to catch anyone out) and to help others (if involved in an incident)

I have been in contact with Blackvue and with their guidance have managed to resolve the sync issue. 

 Thanks again

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

The unfortunate thing is vrs red they are there to aid your case in the event of an accident but now they are also being used as a tool to keep an eye on people working on your car. 

I speak from direct experience that people will have routine work carried out on their car then sit at home afterwards to try and find any minute piece of content to use against us. 

Even having conversations through the window about unrelated topics can trigger suspicion from the customer and have you brought in the office to answer for your actions.

 

their motive? Usually money. Compensation, money off, a free service etc when all you're trying to do is your job and pay your bills. 

[andy-fisher]

16 minutes ago, vrs red said:

I have the cam for piece of mind when on the road (not for spying on people or trying to catch anyone out) and to help others (if involved in an incident)

I have been in contact with Blackvue and with their guidance have managed to resolve the sync issue. 

 Thanks again

A work colleague is quite thankful for a dash cam. He got knocked of his bike by a van. A motorist not involved in the incident had a dash cam which recorded the event. I've been looking at getting one but unsure which to get. So many choices (especially if you start looking in China).

[vrs red]

8 minutes ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

The unfortunate thing is vrs red they are there to aid your case in the event of an accident but now they are also being used as a tool to keep an eye on people working on your car. 

I speak from direct experience that people will have routine work carried out on their car then sit at home afterwards to try and find any minute piece of content to use against us. 

Even having conversations through the window about unrelated topics can trigger suspicion from the customer and have you brought in the office to answer for your actions.

 

their motive? Usually money. Compensation, money off, a free service etc when all you're trying to do is your job and pay your bills. 

 

I know they are abused, but definitely wasn't out for freebies. I only activate the parking mode when leaving the car parked up, otherwise only on when the engine is. And like I said earlier I put it in the laptop to format the card. Was under the impression I needed to carry this out fairly regularly to keep the card "healthy" ? ? 

[Gizmo]

How did Blackvue tell you to sync the two cameras? 

I have two in the Yeti which are a few seconds out (the voice prompt is also turned off... but to no avail) 

 

James ours are all ignition fed, I have no interest in casing a workshop or spying on the mechanic whilst he is doing his job, road tests however should be done with resect to others property and the law.