Diesel or Petrol

[Ootohere]

What a total load of guff on the Diesel Engine development for Euro 7 Emissions, 

but since the OP is looking at buying a car soon, and one built what is happening with new engines in 4 years is hardly relevant.

[stu83]

1 minute ago, themanwithnoaim said:

All car manufacturers (toyota stopped nearly 3 years ago) have stopped diesel engine development obviously, some of the truck companies will continue but, even new buses now are diesel/electric hybrids.

 

Yep, even Renault have admitted they'll struggle to hit euro7 emissions rules so they're concentrating more on efficient petrol engines.

 

I think we'll see diesel engined cars become more and more prohibitively expensive to buy as the tech to keep the emissions low will be immensely expensive. Plus all these emission cheating devices end up using a hell of a lot of energy and thus reducing fuel economy. Just look at the 184tdi compared to the "old" pd170 and cr170.

[Ootohere]

http://automotiveworld.com/analysis/future-diesel-engines-oems-can-shape 

[JT71]

To my mind, part of the decision must be your style of driving. I've driven diesels primarily over the past 20 years, and from the original 205 XLD to the most recent I've driven (Audi A6 2.0 TDI auto), I love the torque, so don't feel the need to redline the engine.

 

The flip side to that is my wife's 1.2 3 pot Fabia. I can't resist revving the bits off it just to listen to the mini 911 we've got!!  Without a doubt, the slowest yet fastest sounding car we've ever owned......

 

Mileage to some isn't the primary reason to choose one or the other, that's now the case with me, but I've ordered a diesel Octavia vRS with DSG, because ultimately, it just suits me better. 

[ahenners]

24 minutes ago, JT71 said:

To my mind, part of the decision must be your style of driving. I've driven diesels primarily over the past 20 years, and from the original 205 XLD to the most recent I've driven (Audi A6 2.0 TDI auto), I love the torque, so don't feel the need to redline the engine.

 

Mileage to some isn't the primary reason to choose one or the other, that's now the case with me, but I've ordered a diesel Octavia vRS with DSG, because ultimately, it just suits me better. 

 

Any modern turbo petrol with a similar amount of power to the diesel will also have that lovely low down torque, but without the uncultured 4 cylinder diesel rattle and small power band.

Edited 11 April, 2017 by ahenners

[JamieA]

Hi all, first post! 

 

I've got the same dilemma as the OP. We're looking to replace our 1.4l 11 plate diesel Ceed for something bigger, the Octavia estate SE L is coming top of our list at the moment. The problem is it will be used for a short commute, 12 miles daily, but we get about a bit at weekends. With our daughter getting bigger we're looking to go camping more- trips of 400 miles or more of a weekend every month or two. 

 

One thing that I don't like about the Ceed is I find it very noisy, granted I leave the Wisbar roof rack on permanently and more often than not can't be arsed to remove the bike racks! Is the 1.4TDI known to be noisy, how does it compare to the petrol offerings?

 

I also have an eye to these 'diesel bans' that no one seems to be able provide any details on! We'd be buying new, outright, and running it long term, I wouldn't want to be charged every time we went into a city / big town 4 or 5 years down the line.

 

Cheers,

Jamie

Edited 12 April, 2017 by JamieA

[Chibakun]

13 hours ago, stu83 said:

I have a feeling we'll be seeing diesel charges in a fair few cities over the coming years.

 

As has been said though, it most likely won't affect anything euro6 compliant, so I wouldn't let that influence your decision. Mileage and type of journies should be the only consideration really.

 

For what it's worth I do around 15k miles and bought a petrol (230). I get roughly 34mpg average, which from what I gather isn't significantly less than the 184tdi engine. My previous diesel was averaging 39-40mpg on the same journies.

 

I personally find driving a petrol a lot more enjoyable, but that's just my preference.

 

Both are more "warm" than hot hatches, even flat out the 230 doesn't feel all that rapid, so a remap will be coming this year for mine.

Did you drive anything else like a Golf GTI to compare?

[stu83]

2 minutes ago, Chibakun said:

Did you drive anything else like a Golf GTI to compare?

 

Golf GTi (Performance Packed), Leon Cupra 280, Renaultsport Megane 275, BMW 330d ... Test drove them all, and have previously owned a fair number of 'quick' cars.

 

I was set on a Megane 275 as I didn't think I'd get a VRS 230 for under £20k, then this one came up with a stupididly high spec, and head won out over heart.

[courty]

 

18 minutes ago, JamieA said:

Hi all, first post! 

 

I've got the same dilemma as the OP. We're looking to replace our 1.4l 11 plate diesel Ceed for something bigger, the Octavia estate SE L is coming top of our list at the moment. The problem is it will be used for a short commute, 12 miles daily, but we get about a bit at weekends. With our daughter getting bigger we're looking to go camping more- trips of 400 miles or more of a weekend every month or two. 

 

One thing that I don't like about the Ceed is I find it very noisy, granted I leave the Wisbar roof rack on permanently and more often than not can't be arsed to remove the bike racks! Is the 1.4TDI known to be noisy, how does it compare to the petrol offerings?

 

I also have an eye to these 'diesel bans' that no one seems to be able provide any details on! We'd be buying new, outright, and running it long term, I wouldn't want to be charged every time we went into a city / big town 4 or 5 years down the line.

 

Cheers,

Jamie

 

Can't comment on the 1.4tdi, have you considered the 1.4tsi - I know lots of people on here rave about it. Even with your 400miles every other month surely it'd be more cost effective to go for a petrol?

[JamieA]

16 minutes ago, courty said:

 

 

Can't comment on the 1.4tdi, have you considered the 1.4tsi - I know lots of people on here rave about it. Even with your 400miles every other month surely it'd be more cost effective to go for a petrol?

Yes, I'm considering the 1.4tsi; tax is a bit more and we're getting around 42-45mpg during the week, up to 57 on a good motorway run out of the Ceed.

 

Cheers,

Jamie

[nidza]

TSI is so much nicer to drive then TDI, completely different story. It's not about horsepower, it's about how it is easy to drive it gentle, quietly, how it is elastic from low rpm, how it smoothly delivers it's torque. TDI is loud, stiff clutch, stiff stick, vibrations, turbo spool noticeable, etc... 

 

TDI has only consumption advantage, all the rest is on the TSI side. With petrol Octavia RS you will have an impression driving higher class car. Go for petrol, we own both in family, O3 TDI 150HP and O3 RS230, two worlds.

[shanemeh]

41 minutes ago, nidza said:

TSI is so much nicer to drive then TDI, completely different story. It's not about horsepower, it's about how it is easy to drive it gentle, quietly, how it is elastic from low rpm, how it smoothly delivers it's torque. TDI is loud, stiff clutch, stiff stick, vibrations, turbo spool noticeable, etc... 

 

TDI has only consumption advantage, all the rest is on the TSI side. With petrol Octavia RS you will have an impression driving higher class car. Go for petrol, we own both in family, O3 TDI 150HP and O3 RS230, two worlds.

 

Well having owned both vehicle I cannot notice a difference at all on a normal commute. Maybe on a track day you would notice but other than that, felt and drove the same.

[nidza]

Well, it is definitely subjective preference whether you feel difference between diesel and petrol engine, which is objectively there and isn't insignificant from the points earlier mentioned.

 

Track day is another story, we talk here about everyday driving comfort.

 

[Gerrycan]

40 minutes ago, JamieA said:

Yes, I'm considering the 1.4tsi; tax is a bit more and we're getting around 42-45mpg during the week, up to 57 on a good motorway run out of the Ceed.

 

The 1.4tsi Octavia will be about the same weekly consumption and just over 50mpg on motorway.

Under 8.5 seconds to 60mph. So it will seem like a hot hatch compared to the C'eed

If consumption is important then the 1.0tsi might even better your diesel and is just under 10 seconds to 60mph, So just a warm hatch by comparison with the diesel C'eed.

vRS tsi consumption is probably mid 30's and motorway probably low 40's. Will seem like an F1 car, compared to diesel C'eed

 

As Einstein said it is all about relativity  

 

[JamieA]

11 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

The 1.4tsi Octavia will be about the same weekly consumption and just over 50mpg on motorway.

Under 8.5 seconds to 60mph. So it will seem like a hot hatch compared to the C'eed

The Ceed is definitely in the sluggish category, a bit more oomph when joining from a sliproad would defiantly go down well! I, or the wife for that matter, won't be hooning it around anywhere though :-) 

 

Cheers,

Jamie

[courty]

2 hours ago, JamieA said:

Yes, I'm considering the 1.4tsi; tax is a bit more and we're getting around 42-45mpg during the week, up to 57 on a good motorway run out of the Ceed.

 

Cheers,

Jamie

 

That's one of the reasons why I chose the TDI vrs, amongst looks and other things, it was the lower rate tax and the fact that it averages the same as my old 2011 1.4l ibiza but with like 2x the power. 

[CookieMonster87]

I can't see how the increased tax or insurance that comes with owning the petrol vRS over the Diesel model would be offset when incomes to charges imposed by driving in cities etc.

 

If you don't do it regularly then I see no harm in owning the Diesel unless the Gov impose ludicrous charges to price out people wanting to own one.

[ahenners]

1 hour ago, CookieMonster87 said:

I can't see how the increased tax or insurance that comes with owning the petrol vRS over the Diesel model would be offset when incomes to charges imposed by driving in cities etc.

 

If you don't do it regularly then I see no harm in owning the Diesel unless the Gov impose ludicrous charges to price out people wanting to own one.

 

Agreed there is no harm, but the differences are very minor in the first place. VED/tax is £115 a year less (Manual Diesel vs Petrol Manual or DSG) or £30 less (DSG Diesel vs Petrol Manual or DSG). Insurance is likely to be very minor too, unless you have considerably unfavourable circumstances. Last year before I bought my VRS, I was actually quoted £50 more for a year to insure the Diesel VRS vs the Petrol.

[CookieMonster87]

@ahenners

 

I guess it's worth getting a quote on a petrol too then, I assumed it would be significantly higher but you know what they about assumptions! Good to know.

 

I do tend to use premium fuel on any of the performance cars I've owned and would most likely be no different if it came to owning a petrol vRS.

 

This is something I'd need to take in to account when it comes to costs also as V-Power and Tesco Momentum are about as much if not more than Diesel at the pumps. It only works out at a few quid per fill up but with less MPG in the petro I guess trips to the pumps would come around more often.

[ahenners]

4 minutes ago, CookieMonster87 said:

@ahenners

 

I guess it's worth getting a quote on a petrol too then, I assumed it would be significantly higher but you know what they about assumptions! Good to know.

 

I do tend to use premium fuel on any of the performance cars I've owned and would most likely be no different if it came to owning a petrol vRS.

 

This is something I'd need to take in to account when it comes to costs also as V-Power and Tesco Momentum are about as much if not more than Diesel at the pumps. It only works out at a few quid per fill up but with less MPG in the petro I guess trips to the pumps would come around more often.

 

I'd say to just put 95 RON standard in it, unless it's not running the factory standard engine map. 95 RON is the required fuel according to the fuel flap.

 

Last couple of tanks I've filled Momentum 99 and subjectively I'm not really seeing any difference from an mpg or smoothness/performance perspective. A few others on here have mentioned the same from their experience too.

Edited 12 April, 2017 by ahenners

[stu83]

I've been using Sainsburys Super (97) or Tesco Momentum since Jan. Not really noticed any performance difference ... I have noticed an mpg increase, but any increases over the last few months could be attributed to the rise in temperatures.

 

I still continue to use it though as it burns cleaner and is less prone to carbon buildup. For the extra 4p/l I'm happy to carry on.

[Ootohere]

Golf GTI (with pretty much the same engines) or R's run standard maps from the factory and VW bother to give a recommendation of the Octane of petrol, 

just not bothering that in the UK Super Unleaded is 97ron unless coming from Shell, Tesco or maybe some Costco's & 99 ron minimum.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel 

Edited 12 April, 2017 by Awayoffski

[themanwithnoaim]

21 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

http://automotiveworld.com/analysis/future-diesel-engines-oems-can-shape 

Article says they must doesn't say they will invest in diesel development 

[Ootohere]

There you go then one article supporting your statement about "all manufacturers".  So no more diesels sometime, maybe.

[Gabbo]

For now I think the Renault articles are just an attempt to get the in the news on the back of the diesel polution band-wagon.

They not the biggest brand outside of France which has one of the highest diesel percentages in Europe.

It would be Financial suicide if they stopped selling diesel engines as their petrol engines are less than award winning.

 

Diesel after-treatment has been getting more expensive for the last 10-years with EGR for Eu3, the DPF for Eu4/5 & now SCR for Eu6.

However, petrol engines are also more expensive now with turbo-charging & direct injection which also has a negative impact on emissions with some petrol engines requiring a Nox trap or SCR system just like diesels.

 

Until there is a real practical alternative for high mileage drivers, diesel engines of some variety will be here to stay at least for the medium & large car segment as well as van & trucks.

You only have to look at the SUV range of cars to see why diesel is still needed.

 

Plus, theres also the production side of fuels where if diesel was really stopped there would be a lot of waste from petrol refining to concider.