Gearbox, clutch or other?

[pcdee]

Hi all,

 

Have had trouble getting our octavia out of first and Reverse for a week or so and today whilst driving, something has thrown in the towel altogether.

 

Here's what happened today over a 40 mile journey....

 

Car sounded like it needed a service when I started it up. 

 

noises increased and car got a bit lumpy when revving / pulling away. (at this stage I thought a turbo or air intake hose had come loose)

 

Noises increased more and more until I went to change into 5th and the gears grinded as if I hadn't depressed the clutch properly.

 

Then couldn't change gear very well, then lost 5th and limped home in 4th and 6th.

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

 

[SuperbTWM]

Sounds like the clutch is dragging, there are a few things that can cause this that are clutch/flywheel/hydraulic related so get it diagnosed properly but you will most likely end up with the gearbox out and a new clutch kit, slave cylinder (if concentric type) and DMF (if fitted)

 

Not sure why it would cause the engine to run lumpy unless its a knackered DMF and you were feeling the vibrations

 

[pcdee]

thank for that.

 

hmm perhaps two unrelated probs then (lumpiness).

 

 

[pcdee]

more info....

 

with engine on and in neutral theres a rattle / noise but when I fully push the clutch the noise stops....

[Ju1ian1001]

2 hours ago, pcdee said:

Hi all,

 

Have had trouble getting our octavia out of first and Reverse for a week or so and today whilst driving, something has thrown in the towel altogether.

 

Here's what happened today over a 40 mile journey....

 

Car sounded like it needed a service when I started it up. 

 

noises increased and car got a bit lumpy when revving / pulling away. (at this stage I thought a turbo or air intake hose had come loose)

 

Noises increased more and more until I went to change into 5th and the gears grinded as if I hadn't depressed the clutch properly.

 

Then couldn't change gear very well, then lost 5th and limped home in 4th and 6th.

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

 

I'd say DMF trouble, sounding like it needs a service/ lumpy when pulling away and revving is the give away symptom. Also the trouble with first and reverse and grinding between 4th to 5th points to  a clutch problem. Either way it's a gearbox out job, in which case i would have a new clutch and depending on on if it's a 1.9tdi or 2.0 tdi anew flywheel (if it's a 1.9 then have it converted to single mass flywheel, this is not possible on the 2.0tdi) no matter which it's gonna be a big bill.

[Ju1ian1001]

4 minutes ago, pcdee said:

more info....

 

with engine on and in neutral theres a rattle / noise but when I fully push the clutch the noise stops....

DMf for sure.

[pcdee]

Thanks for that.

 

i'm handy on the tools but not experienced enough to diagnose

 

so clutch kit and slave cylinder.....

 

anything else whilst I'm in there? (It's a 2.0tdi)

Edited 4 May, 2017 by pcdee

[Ju1ian1001]

Yes Dual mass flywheel as well, they are pricey £300 upwards, but as said the 2.0tdi can't be converted (or least not easyley), Be aware the six speed box is VERY heavy so will need lifting by 2 people and a strong jack (at work we use 3 people to lift them in and out)

 

As a side note: at work we also replace the drive shaft to gearbox bolts as we have had some undo and fall out on VW caddys (more or less same engine and gearbox) there are 12 in total  

Edited 5 May, 2017 by Ju1ian1001

[Pudq1]

what happens if you keep driving around with a knackered DMF? short term damage? long term damage? will it just give up on me?

[wiilydog]

6 hours ago, Pudq1 said:

what happens if you keep driving around with a knackered DMF? short term damage? long term damage? will it just give up on me?

Long term it will damage your gearbox as it protects the gearbox from vibrations so best not to leave it too long.  There are also cases where the dmf has failed completely and punches a hole in the gearbox causing the oil to leak out and causes complete gearbox failure

[pcdee]

Thanks for that all.

 

does anyone have a part number for the gearbox oil?

 

(2005 2.0tdi 16v 1Z5 octavia)

[octyal]

Bear in mind that if depressing the clutch stops the noise, then it's more likely to be gearbox side than engine - remember that if the engine is turning, sot is the input shaft (even in neutral), drop the pedal and you remove that link, the input shaft stops turning and the noise stops. Possibly input shaft bearings as it's the 6 speed.

 

On ‎06‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 14:29, wiilydog said:

Long term it will damage your gearbox as it protects the gearbox from vibrations so best not to leave it too long.  There are also cases where the dmf has failed completely and punches a hole in the gearbox causing the oil to leak out and causes complete gearbox failure

 

It's actually the retaining/adjuster ring on the Sachs SAC clutches that breaks/dislodges and wears the casing, not the DMF.

[Ju1ian1001]

6 hours ago, octyal said:

Bear in mind that if depressing the clutch stops the noise, then it's more likely to be gearbox side than engine - remember that if the engine is turning, sot is the input shaft (even in neutral), drop the pedal and you remove that link, the input shaft stops turning and the noise stops. Possibly input shaft bearings as it's the 6 speed.

 

 

It's actually the retaining/adjuster ring on the Sachs SAC clutches that breaks/dislodges and wears the casing, not the DMF.

This is also true with DMF, when you depress it allows the the 2 masses to rotate at the same rate, release the clutch and the inner segment of the DMF is under more pressure the then the outer so they 2 rattle against each other.

 

Clutch release bearings normally sound like a worn bearing when they start to to give up, a bit harder to hear with concentric slave cylinders; which is what is fitted to the six speed boxes on the 2.0tdi's

[pcdee]

Hmm the plot thickens.... 

 

ill I'll change the clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder/release bearing as a matter of course.

 

what should I lick for on the gearbox side of things?

[Ju1ian1001]

The gearbox itself is fairly robust, indeed i have seen them out last the body of the car itself. My last Octy was a 2.0 pd tdi and the gearbox never gave any trouble.

[Gissin]

GSF do a sach clutch and DMF kit for your car, I fitted it to my old octy at 176k  and it was fine I have a 50 or 55% off code should you want it, but deffo agree with above sounds like DMF failure

[pcdee]

Ours is at 176k too!

 

thanks for that - I bought this which thankfully works out about the same price with your offer of a voucher. phew!

 

152498157817 (eBay item number)

[Gissin]

1 hour ago, pcdee said:

Ours is at 176k too!

 

thanks for that - I bought this which thankfully works out about the same price with your offer of a voucher. phew!

 

152498157817 (eBay item number)

yours is actually £10 cheaper  hope it all goes well

[mark999]

On 08/05/2017 at 12:03, pcdee said:

Thanks for that all.

 

does anyone have a part number for the gearbox oil?

 

(2005 2.0tdi 16v 1Z5 octavia)

If it's the 6speed box it should be G052171A2 But always check with dealer or TPS. Last time I looked the fluid was £1 a litre cheaper than TPS on ebay

[pcdee]

I'm about to remove the gearbox.

 

Quick question - do I need to drain engine and / or transmission oil before separating gearbox from engine. Just had a premonition of a sea of oil....

[SuperbTWM]

13 minutes ago, pcdee said:

I'm about to remove the gearbox.

 

Quick question - do I need to drain engine and / or transmission oil before separating gearbox from engine. Just had a premonition of a sea of oil....

 

Engine oil no, gearbox doesn't need draining unless you have to take the stub axles out.

[pcdee]

Thanks for that. 

 

Ok next query online sages....

 

I'm struggling to get the gearbox assembly out.... I've got engine support on a beam (across the engine bay) and gearbox on a transmission jack but I cant get it down and past the wishbone? (Drive shafts are out).

 

The manual says I need to remove the assembly carrier?

 

I come here for help after 3 hours wiggling it about!

Edited 17 May, 2017 by pcdee

[pcdee]

It's out....

 

To try and rule out a gearbox fault i wondered if anyone can tell me if this sounds like it should and if the amount of play looks good enough?....

IMG_0507-sm.mov

Edited 17 May, 2017 by pcdee

[oilyscouse]

Common fault. The input shaft needs shimming up behind the black cap in the top case