FWD LSD or 4WD? Which is better?

[Ootohere]

In the real world of UK roads with corners and a NSL of 60 mph there are millions of cars on the roads every day without a LSD or AWD or Part Time all wheel drive going around corners at 60 mph in all weather conditions and seasons without oversteer or understeer and drivers who have no idea what that is.

Many saved by ESP or just because modern cars go around corners at 60mph or faster without dramas.

Many of the millions of drivers have no idea what tyre pressures they have & who never check them.

Edited 16 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Darrendaly123]

Where can I find a lsd for my fwd 2104 vrs 2.0 tdi cupa. Thanks 

Edited 18 August, 2018 by Darrendaly123

[Ootohere]

Try Quaife,  and then for fitting maybe the likes of Darkside Developments.

http://shop.quaife.co.uk 

http://darksidedevelopments.co.uk 

[Darrendaly123]

Sorry you hardly know what diff type is in the 6speed manual?.

[Ootohere]

Correct, i know nothing about them, but then i am not asking you are. 

I know about LSD's though, and XDS & XDS+ and Locking Diffs, Air Lockers, Spools and various other systems.

Edited 18 August, 2018 by Offski

[Darrendaly123]

7 minutes ago, Offski said:

Correct, i know nothing about them, but then i am not asking you are. 

I know about LSD's though, and XDS & XDS+ and Locking Diffs, Air Lockers, Spools and various other systems.

You hardly know the code if the one in the car like q20 etc

[Ootohere]

You are right i do not and am not interested, not got one of those diesels, but if you are interested ask Quaife what they can supply if they can.

Others have modified their vehicles.

[logiclee]

For traction then yes AWD is king.

 

But as others have said there's great systems and some very ropey installations. The last couple of haldex generations have been quite qood though

 

The problem I find with Haldex is it sometimes is not progressive especially on low traction surfaces. You have to second guess the electronics. 

 

I suppose that's the price we pay for efficiency. Go back to the lat 80's and early 90's and the systems Ford and Subaru were fitting were sublime. 66% Rear and 34% Front permanent split through an epicyclic gear train and a proper LSD in the rear axle. You could play and slide in any conditions and the car would respond the same always.

 

I even prefer that setup to some of the advanced Torsen systems of today, even to the active Yaw systems in the Evo or GTR. I had more fun in my old Sierra 4X4 than I could in my S5.

 

Lee

 

 

[181ce]

Just to throw a spanner in the works ,we do appreciate AWD and 4WD are two completely different things don't we ?

[SWBoy]

13 minutes ago, 181ce said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works ,we do appreciate AWD and 4WD are two completely different things don't we ?

Quote

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/whats-the-difference-between-four-wheel-drive-and-all-wheel-drive/

 

All-wheel drive is a much more recent innovation and is a little more complicated.

But, to simplify, it’s actually very similar to the concept of part-time four-wheel drive.

 

Edited 19 August, 2018 by SWBoy

[DavidY]

1 hour ago, 181ce said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works ,we do appreciate AWD and 4WD are two completely different things don't we ?

 

Logically the two terms are exactly equivalent on a 4-wheeled vehicle, because driving all the wheels and driving 4 wheels is the same thing, so they shouldn't be different at all.
 

However I imagine some marketing types have tried to apply the two terms to different transmission designs.

 

But you can't work out from the names which is which - you just need to be in on the marketing trends...

[BGB]

On 14/06/2017 at 15:05, norsko said:

I am impressed by how vw/skoda has programmed the Haldex 5 in this cars. Many thinks that its just a part time 4x4 that only kicks in if your car is spinning (like a traction control).

 

Could not agree more about this statement.

 

I had the Haldex 4 in a mkII Scout and that car had the old "haldex-feel" to it but the new system in my mkIII reminds me more of TorSen in the way it always seem to be more playful, responsive and predictable.

[181ce]

Again not the same thing at all.

One is clever complicated and works,but isn't 4wheel drive.

One is primitive,simple and works even better axle deep in Sh1te.

 

[Mariosti]

On 19/08/2018 at 14:45, 181ce said:

Again not the same thing at all.

One is clever complicated and works,but isn't 4wheel drive.

One is primitive,simple and works even better axle deep in Sh1te.

 

What your talking about is "Full time AWD" vs "Part time AWD".

Full time AWD is often vaguely called 4WD (which is not really correct, as a car doesn't have to have specifically 4 wheels, while the whole point of this differentiation is not about that at all), and Part time AWD systems are usually called AWD (but again, that's layman speech).

 

Part time system with locked haldex works exactly like a Full time system with locked central diff, so in the basic setup it gives better traction than a Full time AWD system with 3 open diffs and no trick electronics.

[fabdavrav]

If you want a real spanner in the works what is fitted by VAG (heavily modified Haldex unit) to the sporty front wheel drive cars (like the Mk7 GTI PP) is not a LSD...never has been & even the makers & VAG tech dept don't call it that..only the marketing lot called it a LSD which is highly misleading as the term LSD correctly refers to a completely different & solely mechanical item...to which the "VAQ" unit is not.

 

Many people who track or enjoy spirited driving with their Haldex based AWD MK7 Golf "R" have replaced both the open diffs for proper LSDs & the car grips even better, exits corners faster, etc. as the it relies less on the electronics.. 

Edited 8 December, 2021 by fabdavrav

[Cap44]

On 18/08/2018 at 22:00, logiclee said:

For traction then yes AWD is king.

 

But as others have said there's great systems and some very ropey installations. The last couple of haldex generations have been quite qood though

 

The problem I find with Haldex is it sometimes is not progressive especially on low traction surfaces. You have to second guess the electronics. 

 

I suppose that's the price we pay for efficiency. Go back to the lat 80's and early 90's and the systems Ford and Subaru were fitting were sublime. 66% Rear and 34% Front permanent split through an epicyclic gear train and a proper LSD in the rear axle. You could play and slide in any conditions and the car would respond the same always.

 

I even prefer that setup to some of the advanced Torsen systems of today, even to the active Yaw systems in the Evo or GTR. I had more fun in my old Sierra 4X4 than I could in my S5.

 

Lee

 

 

YES I remember my old Sierra XR 4X4  That Torsan diff used to come in use as you was getting worried about understeer you could feel the centre diff come in and pull the front around. At the time it was a choice between the Audi or Sierra. That lump off metal sticking out in front of the front wheels on the Audi meant it was always going to struggle. No contest after trying both. The Sierra won hands down & had done 227K mile when some ****er coming the other way took the offside front wheel off.

Best and fastest car ive ever had on the wet twisties with good tyres & decent seats