I'm not changing my derv vrs at the moment, but one annoying thing about it is its lack of traction  (not helped by weight in boot I know).

 

I wondered, is FWD with an lsd almost as good as 4wd as they don't have a lsd on either axle (The VAG system anyway). Shovelling some torque to the rear will help as that's where a car squats under acceleration, but a good lsd on a 2wd must be almost as good or not? 

 

Debate! 

Edited 12 June, 20178 yr by pdtrewern

Having recently sold a 4WD to get a 2WD with LSD, my thoughts are that I never used to make the tyres spin previously (great for traffic light GP) but the LSD makes for more grip when cornering but not quite as good from 0 mph.

Depends on the road surface - on the dry, the LSD might launch a bit faster over a long distance due to less weight on the car, but 4WD will always put the power down better. On snow, wet, etc the 4WD will always win.

Although "smart" FWD hot hatches are becoming the norm, I think a 4WD is a better option - there is some loss of power due to more weight and having to drive two extra wheels, but the car is more planted.

Unfortunately, the 4WD cars also have higher maintenance costs and in the Skoda stable you can only get them coupled with the diesel in VRS trim.

 

I would seriously consider the new Leon Cupra 300 with DSG/4WD, even though I am not a fan of auto boxes...

120kg lighter which is probably why its quicker through corners !!!

Edited 13 June, 20178 yr by themanwithnoaim

As it is traction which concerns you most, 4WD will be best.

 

For fuel economy, purchase cost, maintenance and refinement FWD wins.

 

 

Wet greasy road, hard turn into fast traffic, uphill, adverse camber, Haldex just goes, no complaint. Never had a FWD that would do that. Even the trick diffs complain a bit.

 

Around corners you can feel the haldex pushing power to the rear.

 

That said, I drove FWD cars for years and still have a couple, you just have to be more mindful of the throttle, the trick diffs make things better but don't get rid of the problem completely.

My MK7 GTi PP used to axle tramp badly when a full bore take off was tried even in dry conditions, this is the main problem reported with VAG systems. However my MK7 R simply squats and goes under the same conditions so my vote has to be 4WD is far better.

My 1.8 TSI DSG 4x4 accelerate faster from stand still than my friends 2.0 TSI VRS every time we tried.

Mine has 40 hp less and 100+kg more, but 4x4 and DSG wins.

 

0-62 traffic light gp is for kids, 30-80 is more important and used more often and the lighter fwd version with lsd will always win once rolling.

 

James 

Edited 13 June, 20178 yr by Superman001

Really, in a straight line? 

Actually no traction no useful action and if you have any go traction can be lost hitting it at 30mph even dirty diesels and especially revvy petrols.

Using excuses in grown up booting it sessions like wrong tyres is not much of an excuse if the Part Time AWD car that is heavier but on the same tyres gets a move on quicker.

 

0-62, or 30-80 & taking an Octavia up against anything is really like taking a knife to a gunfight.

Even a 230-245 ps one.

 

AUDI's do not just get quattro for boasting reasons, (many might buy them for just that) but they do often get given official figures that are implausible by the weight of them.

Anyway VW went big up on fast Golf GTI Clubsport 40 Edition & Clubsport S FWD's and how quick and agile they are, 

but we might well know which is practical as the All Year European car on the one set of tyres and that is the Lardy Golf 'R'.

Edited 13 June, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

4WD every day of the week

 

(used to rally a pretty rapid Mini with a Salisbury LSD fitted, ‘torqued up’ pretty high, so I know how good a good LSD can be) but for every day use it has to be 4WD.

Having driven a tweaked MkII TDI 4x4 for about 10 years now as well as FWD and rwd cars on a regular basis ID always go 4x4 if I had the choice.

4x4 always means more grip, but less fun. From 0 it must be quicker, you can't find grip in strong FWD car from the standing still.

 

Since this is Octavia forum, let's assume we talk about 4x4 and LSD options in this particular model. The problem is, Škoda offers two completely different concepts of cars, so you are not choosing between type of transmission, but a lot more.

 

4x4 is only Diesel.

 

LSD is only special edition of RS, RS245 (former RS230, like I have). This is very different car comparing to its diesel counterpart.

 

4x4 and TSI you can get in Superb, but this car is not at all fun as RS.

 

One more thing to underline, VAQ in GTI PP and RS 245 is much more then LSD system. It offers complete control under torque steering, and makes a difference in sharp driving. Since my RS230 arrived early in January 2017, and it was all snow, haven't really felt strong point of these systems under slippery conditions. My previous car, Alfa 159, was also really great on snowy roads, without real mechanical LSD. It is making much more sense in quick driving in the corners, now in summer and dry roads. I am almost scared I will loose back of my Škoda how good grip it has in the front, when going really fast. Could be that it is just a subjective feeling, as I am used to strong FWD cars, and all felt much heavier in the front.

Had a Scout before my Superb and would hate to go back to 2 wheels only .... Can plant the throttle in Sport mode on wet slippy islands and it takes off like a scalded cat. No drama at all :-)

20 hours ago, Superman001 said:

0-62 traffic light gp is for kids, 30-80 is more important and used more often and the lighter fwd version with lsd will always win once rolling.

 

James 

Yes, in dry conditions it will win, but thats because it has a stronger engine not because LSD is better or as good as 4x4.

Here in Norway where it is winter 9 months a year (and has polar bears in the street) the choice is easy.

I am impressed by how vw/skoda has programmed the Haldex 5 in this cars. Many thinks that its just a part time 4x4 that only kicks in if your car is spinning (like a traction control).

But it is much more "clever" than that.

For me there is only two fun Skoda's. The Octavia 1.8 TSI 180hp 4x4, and the Superb 2.0 TSI 280hp 4x4

They are more clever than just being FWD with RWD when there is wheel spin at the front, but not really that clever.

 

As to fun, then if safer is fun they are fun, but it depends on the definition of fun really.

A Citigo on 'the right tyres' for the condition, even the wrong tyres or just for the kind of fun you want can be fun enough for some.

18 minutes ago, norsko said:

Yes, in dry conditions it will win, but thats because it has a stronger engine not because LSD is better or as good as 4x4.

Here in Norway where it is winter 9 months a year (and has polar bears in the street) the choice is easy.

I am impressed by how vw/skoda has programmed the Haldex 5 in this cars. Many thinks that its just a part time 4x4 that only kicks in if your car is spinning (like a traction control).

But it is much more "clever" than that.

For me there is only two fun Skoda's. The Octavia 1.8 TSI 180hp 4x4, and the Superb 2.0 TSI 280hp 4x4

I wasn't referring to engine power I was stating that a car with the same engine and a fwd lsd is more effective than a car with 4wd from 30-80mph due to less weight/transmission losses.

Would be, could be, should be if maybe you stick the same driver in.

I must keep coming up against these lighter cars with fatter than me drivers with lots of samples in the boot.

30-80 mph is not an Octavia's greatest attribute really is it?   Hence so many looking for Remaps & Tuning boxes...

There are some really crappy AWD systems out there.

I had a Hyundai Santa Fe Type R diesel for a while, heavy body (circa 1900kg) but the engine had quite a lot of low down torque and the power was delivered primarily via the front wheels.

Pulling out of a side-turn into fast moving traffic was fraught because the inside front wheel would readily spin and a long dialogue would begin between the traction control and AWD, and the traction control would win the early argument as you were initially left stranded with no power then they came to an agreement, the car would lift up its skirts and rush up to speed. Meantime you've p####d of the guy you pulled in front of and suffered an 'oh $h1t' moment. You only do that once.

Our much lighter FWD 1.4tsi Octavia copes with that situation much better and a 4WD Subaru even better again. 

I would hope the later Haldex would cope with situation as well as we are considering a FWD for some better dirt road (sometimes mud road) traction. Unfortunately the Scout has been dropped locally due to poor sales.

I'm not an aggressive driver but if I had a lot of power then I would want it delivered to the road and not wasted on spinning wheels or smoking tyres.

owning both, id say FWD with mechanical diff is best - at least on the track or when youre already moving. AWD is great for wet weather and low grip conditions and standing starts!

15 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

They are more clever than just being FWD with RWD when there is wheel spin at the front, but not really that clever.

 

As to fun, then if safer is fun they are fun, but it depends on the definition of fun really.

A Citigo on 'the right tyres' for the condition, even the wrong tyres or just for the kind of fun you want can be fun enough for some.

I did run a log of the Haldex clutch with VCDS and was surprised that even in perfect dry condition the rear wheels get "a lot" of traction. It continuously adjust the torque from 3 to 50 % to the rear wheels depending on steering angle, speed and throttle movement. It works way better and what I had expected.

It even has less understeer than my sons old (2000) Audi A4 Quattro and my brothers "new" (2014) Audi A4 Allroad in heavy cornering at "low" speed.

The only car with better a better Haldex system is Volvo IMO.

 

And I think its fun when you can push the pedal to the metal in corners without all that awful understeer that most FWD cars has.

4 hours ago, norsko said:

And I think its fun when you can push the pedal to the metal in corners without all that awful understeer that most FWD cars has.

 

That specifically is what the LSD the OP mentioned gets rid of, and which is also the subject of this thread.

 

For the rest... I cannot comment.

I have driven a 4WD 3.2V6 Passat with a DSG box, but it was VERY lowered on coilovers, so I will hold no judgment on the handling.

 

I was surprised that when I launched that Passat at the lights I still got the typical torque steer and the front weaved a bit - expected that launching a 4WD car would be more effective.

With that said, that was a fairly old car (2007 model, if I am not mistaken) and there have been quite a few Haldex revisions meanwhile...

Thank for the reply's so far..

 

Out of interest, does the 4wd take up any boot space and retain the spare wheel... I use even some small, storage around the spare.. 

1 hour ago, pdtrewern said:

Thank for the reply's so far..

 

Out of interest, does the 4wd take up any boot space and retain the spare wheel... I use even some small, storage around the spare.. 

 

No difference to spare or boot space in my 4x4 vRS versus previous FWD

just added 70hp to my 20hp superb. it still doesn't torque steer and the transfer is fantastic. still understeers. but then again its a boat, and meant to be comfortable.

 

An LSD in a FWD driven properly can counter understeer and drive the car out of turns quite easily.