Emissions recall?

[Guest]

Got my recall letter this week. My Superb Elegance 170 DSG will stay unaltered. By coincidence, its having an MOT Monday so shall be interesting to see what the emissions test shows. No reason why it shouldn't pass the test, and in my ownership the software will NOT be altered. All this talk of NOX and the like is similar to the fuss about getting rid of lead in petrol years ago! 

If diesel is so dirty, why aren't the oil companies "cleaning" it up? Petrol had lead removed, so there must be something in the mix of diesel fuel that causes the NOX to be there! I am sure a petro chemist will put me right but at the end of the day I don't really give a damn.

[Ootohere]

No reason for it not to fail a UK MOT because of the type of test being done on diesels, so the defeat device being still on the vehicle has no relevance.

 

The Diesel / Heavy Oil / Derv is not the issue, it is how Manufacturers build engines and the cleaning up is happening 

because the TDI Euro 5 engines were more polluting so now there are Euro 6 with SCR (Ad-Blue), there were Euro 4 standards pre Euro 4 

and VW could not meet legislation in the US and cheated, if they had not cheated the vehicles with Ad-Blue would have need huge tanks or frequent refills, so VW had a system from Bosch to disable the Emissions Control.

 

As to leaded petrol, that was polluting and causing premature death as polluting diesels and also Un-leaded fuel consuming vehicles.

 

You do not need to give a damn, but someone will for you at some point and tax you accordingly, so pays your money, take your NHS treatments and breath through a face mask if you ever have cancer sometime in your life.

Edited 2 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Guest]

Green issues and global warming. A way to raise taxes. The emissions scandal. Another way to raise taxes and disadvantage people. There must be a way for the fuel industry to improve. Lead polluted so surely in a way nox is a pollutant.

Seems to me a mere mortal of limited education, that those that can are taking us for a ride!

[chimaera]

NOx is produced when atmospheric nitrogen is oxidised during high temperature combustion. It has relatively little to do with fuel chemistry. You can't eliminate NOx by changing the composition of the fuel.

 

On the other hand, tetraethyl lead was an additive in petrol, so when it was shown to be a harfnul pollutant it was straightforward to remove it from fuel and eliminate it as a source of pollution.

 

It is possible to reduce NOx formation by changing diesel fuel chemistry but I'm not sure how many people are willing to pay 2-3 euro per litre for diesel. Plus it still won't eliminate NOx formation.

For now NOx mitigation has to happen on the vehicle, both by reducing its formation in the first place through controlling the combustion event carefully, and by adding suitable exhaust aftertreatment systems to remove it from the exhaust stream.

[silver1011]

5 hours ago, Kebab10 said:

Got my recall letter this week. My Superb Elegance 170 DSG will stay unaltered. By coincidence, its having an MOT Monday so shall be interesting to see what the emissions test shows. No reason why it shouldn't pass the test, and in my ownership the software will NOT be altered. All this talk of NOX and the like is similar to the fuss about getting rid of lead in petrol years ago! 

If diesel is so dirty, why aren't the oil companies "cleaning" it up? Petrol had lead removed, so there must be something in the mix of diesel fuel that causes the NOX to be there! I am sure a petro chemist will put me right but at the end of the day I don't really give a damn.

 

The only emissions test currently carried out on a diesel during the MOT is a soot test.

 

A probe is inserted up the exhaust and the car is revved at which pint the soot levels are measured. On cars fitted with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) the readings should be '0'.

 

Nothing altered during the VAG fix will affect the pass or fail of the MOT, except an EML (Engine Management Light) as posted earlier.

 

Assuming the MOT is at a Skoda franchised main dealer you'll need to be clear, very clear and crystal clear that you don't want the fix applying to your car. Have a note added to the job sheet before handing the keys over.

[Guest]

Don't trust stealers. I use an independent garage. I know how the test is done by the way, just a deep mistrust of dealers. Software update, NEVER, NEVER NEVER.

[Guest]

MOT done and passed. Need a tyre in a few months but the emissions were fine. Recall letter in the recycling bin. 

No doubt come the next budget, diesel will be taxed more or even easier; raise the road tax on them. The government of the day will cave in to the tree huggers and all the doom mongers but I will still drive it 10,000 or more a year. 

[Gdcobra]

When it is no longer financially viable to fly several thousand miles for a **** up i'll believe governments are taking emissions seriously.

Until then I'll not bother feeling guilty about my cars, bikes & lawnmower.

[AMartinD]

As people might have seen in the thread I started about the failure of my bonnet release, my car was in the local main dealer's workshop yesterday (Thurs 6th July) to get the bonnet release sorted out, which was successful.  However...

 

I very strongly suspect the dealer's workshop also implemented the 23R6 ECU emissions update despite my clear and explicit instructions to them, when I booked the car in, NOT to do so.  When I drove the car away from the dealership after the bonnet release had been sorted it felt extremely sluggish and unresponsive compared to how it used to drive, and when I drove the car down to my local VAG specialist this morning for a service and a cambelt change it also drove very differently to how it was before.

 

I've asked the VAG specialist to use their VCDS to check for any engine management faults and also to check what ECU firmware version is now installed; can anyone tell me what firmware version would expect to be found if the 23R6 update hadn't been implemented and also what firmware version will be shown if the update HAS, as I strongly suspect, been installed in direct contravention of my clear and explicit instructions.

 

The car is a March 2011 2.0 TDi CR 170 Superb Estate, in Elegance trim.

 

Assuming the 23R6 update has been implemented "illegally" by the dealer, what options might I have for getting it removed and having the car restored to its previous condition and level of driveability - is there really no way of reverting to the previous, pre-update firmware version?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

--

Martin

Edited 7 July, 2017 by AMartinD

[langers2k]

5 minutes ago, AMartinD said:

Can anyone tell me what firmware version would be expect to be found if the 23R6 update hadn't been implemented and also what firmware version will be shown if the update HAS, as I strongly suspect, been installed in direct contravention to my instructions.

 

I believe the fix is included in 9977 and above.

[chimaera]

You can also check for a sticker showing "23R6" on the build label in the boot.

 

Did you leave a written instruction with the dealer for the update not to be done? If not, it'll be your word against theirs.

 

The one thing Skoda (or VAG in general) will not do is roll back the update because that would be illegal for them (plus their systems probably don't allow for it to be done). Assuming they have updated it, I think the best you can expect is that they'd make a contribution towards the cost of rolling it back at a tuner.

[AMartinD]

Well, I've checked again in the boot including under the black foamy stuff and there's no sign of a "23R6" label anywhere.  When I picked the car up from the VAG specialist this afternoon, after the service and cambelt change, I didn't get a chance to have a detailed discussion about the findings of their VCDS tests but on the invoice the chap has written "03L 906 018 CH 7825" which he said indicated (to him) that the firmware hasn't been upgraded to 9977 or later...

 

Can anyone confirm that the 7825 in the string of characters mentioned above does indeed represent the firmware version that's installed in the ECU?  If it does then it would appear that my suspicions about the main dealer having done the 23R6 upgrade against my instructions are ill-founded, and that perhaps the poor engine performance I'd experienced yesterday and to a lesser extent this morning was due to some other factor.  When I drove the car home late this afternoon the engine behaviour did feel more like it had done previously, before I took the car into the main dealer yesterday afternoon, so perhaps all is well - fingers crossed!

 

--

Martin

[chimaera]

From what I can tell, the CH suffix on the part number corresponds with version 7825.

[satsam]

Had the  EA 108 NOx engines update done September 2016 on my Superb and I am not happy. The car seems sluggish at times and I had 5 passengers in the car and had to use second gear to get up a hill. It is going back for a check but if there is no warning lights coming on or I cannot recreate the fallt then there is nothing they can do.

Edited 31 July, 2017 by satsam

[TheRobinK]

Hi satsam - welcome to the forum.

 

Sorry to hear this - could you tell us the year, mileage, gearbox and engine on your SII?  I'm just asking so that other owners can compare any problems and see if there are any consistent issues on model configurations and usage.

 

Do you think your car always been sluggish since the update or is this more recent?  Did it feel like you had lost the Turbo on that hill (like you only had 25% of your normal torque)?

 

I  ask as my father has similar problems on a Passat - with no warning lights - the turbo  actuator valve was intermittently failing (sluggish at times) and would sometimes cut the turbo completely (2nd gear needed to get any pull).  

 

Sending it back for a check is the right thing and keep the Skoda Trust Building Measure information to hand. You would need to check if your car qualifies by their wonderful rules (i.e. service history, mileage etc), but you may have cover for 24 months post fix on "... 11 components within the exhaust gas recirculation system, the fuel injection system and the emissions after treatment system: lambda probe, temperature sensor, EGR changeover valve, exhaust gas recirculation valve, exhaust gas recirculation pressure differential sensor, injector, high pressure pump, fuel rail, pressure control valve, pressure sensor, high pressure pipelines."

 

[satsam]

Hi! TheRobinK

the year is first reg. 26/3/2014 Skoda Superb Elegance TDI CR 4x4. mileage just under 20000. engine 1968cc. 6 speed manual gear box.

Thought it was a bit sluggish but only carried 2 people in it until my wife passed away 2 year ago. Was on holiday in July 2017  with five people on board and had to select 2nd gear after coming of off a mini r/about to access a hill. Thught I might report this as there seems to be other cars and make complaining about this. This may have been loss of turbo but I am not sure.

Edited 31 July, 2017 by satsam

[chimaera]

Facelift manual 4x4 suggests it's the 140 bhp version?

 

With 5 people and luggage, that car is going to be over 2 tonnes which is a lot for 140 bhp no matter what.

[satsam]

No luggage, just going out for a meal.

[silver1011]

Skoda UK will give you the brush off, they've already made that clear via the media.

 

Watch this...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p058nmk1

 

Read VW's response to recent complaints...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1mnPm3grkQ2KhtSbH0BZ5RP/vw

 

And send your symptoms here...

 

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact

 

One voice is not going to matter, a collective voice aired by the BBC might see some beneficial results.

 

Finally the moral of this (and far too many others on here) is that under no circumstances should you allow Skoda to apply the fix to your car.

 

 

[Agent X20]

Took mine in for its MOT (29 June) and the Skoda Dealer performed the fix...  I had no idea that they were going to carry that out... I also had no reminder the MOT was due..

 

There's something not right, which is why I thought I would have a look on the site...

Engine is noisier, it is definitely not as smooth,  had the odd clunk from under the front end .... and then when you come back to the car the next morning... it's as right as rain..

 

As to mpg, I haven't really noticed... have a long journey this weekend so will see if 55mpg is still attainable..

 

I'll drop it back in for them to have a look.... but again I find myself with a Skoda that might give me grief in later years (first one was a 2008 140!)  - its a ploy to get you to buy a new one.. it certainly makes PCP worth looking at!

 

 

 

 

(30 June 2014 170DSG Estate 38,000  miles - just had a full service (11 July)  after the MOT and they changed the gearbox oil at a cost of £175! Privately owned used for business - bought from new).

There's a cheap 190 2017 SEL Estate DSG - zero miles @ £24K - might go have a looksee..

 

 

 

Edited 3 August, 2017 by Agent X20

[Outrunner]

If you are on Facebook and have problems post 'fix' or want advice if you should have the 'fix', join and take a look at The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal)

[bigjohn]

Unfixed Dieselgate-affected Volkswagens to be deregistered in Germany

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/unfixed-dieselgate-affected-volkswagens-be-deregistered-germany

 

[lichfielddriver]

The "cheat" is to defeat NOX levels, no MOT station has a NOX tester

 

carry on

[AMartinD]

Hi again all, here's an update on the situation re: the possible unauthorised installation of the 23R6 emissions fix on my 2.0TDi CR170 Superb...

 

Approaching 4 weeks ago I had a dialogue with the service management personnel at the local main dealer in whose workshop my car had had the bonnet release repaired; they assured me that the workshop personnel had categorically NOT installed the 23R6 software update without my permission, and I was offered the opportunity to verify for myself, on their premises, that the installed ECU software was a pre-fix version.

 

This morning I took the car into the main dealer's workshop again and saw the output data generated by the ODIS diagnostics system; the data for the ECU in my car shows that the VAG part number is 03L906018CH and that the software version is 7825.  The workshop 'master technician' who had done the diagnostics showed me some other information that confirmed that the software version number for the 23R6 emissions fix is 9977 (and possibly later).  All of this confirms what I learned a couple of weeks ago from my local independent VAG specialist and from people on this forum, so thanks to everyone for your inputs and I'm now wholly persuaded that the engine symptoms I experienced after my car had been in the main dealer's workshop to have the bonnet release repaired definitely weren't caused by the unauthorised installation of the 23R6 emissions fix.  However, something else of potential relevance has just come to light this evening...

 

A good friend of mine who phoned me this evening is acquainted with a chap who, until a couple of months ago, worked for VAG in Banbury.  My friend recently told this acquaintance about the symptoms - loss of mid-range pulling power etc - that I'd experienced and the ex-VAG chap immediately told my friend that there's a 'feature' on VAG diesel cars that are more than about four years old that does something to the engine mapping if the engine is left idling for more than about 20mins.  Apparently the change to the mapping is intended to prevent the DPF from getting too clogged up in such circumstances, but it has the side-effect of causing the engine to run roughly for some time - a figure of a couple of hours was mentioned - after the period of idling has ended.  VAG overcame the problem in more recent cars by modifying the design of the DPF.  I wonder if this idle-mode protection was the cause of the problems I experienced back in early July...

 

Has anyone else ever observed any changes to their engine's characteristics after a very lengthy period of idling, eg. when stuck in holiday traffic on a motorway??!!

 

--

Martin

Edited 4 August, 2017 by AMartinD

[RPC]

I have a Superb Estate with the 170 TDi engine. When it went for its service a few months ago they did the recall work (without asking my permission). Since then both my wife and I have noticed that the car is much less responsive and has noticeably less acceleration. In addition the fuel consumption has worsened. Very disappointing. I've spoken to other people with the same engine on a range of VAG cars and they all say the same.