Water bubbling under drive from an old drain, who's responsable

[Volvomeg]

Bit of an odd one really,

 

We live on a hill about 3/4 of way down and the house next door up the hill and the ones opposite us are I believe about 40 years older than our property,

 

There is a retaining wall between us and next door (up hill again) which we have rebuilt the front 20ft of a few years ago as it was ready to collapse and built a flower bed about 3 foot out onto our driveway to help support said wall,

 

Anyway for about last 8 months ish when its rained heavy water has started to bubble out of ground right in corner about a foot from said flower bed and same from pavement edge so right in front corner of driveway, basically under where green bin is in pic

 

 I just ignored it at first as drives only some old flag stones with dirt between them but its now getting to point where its washing dirt across driveway and flooding drive when it rains,

 

Now Northern Powergrid had pavement up last week to replace some cables that ran up next doors driveway to substation and I noticed a drain that came at an angle under road and pavement and seem to head towards the corner in question, now we have redone all drains round our property and this one is isn't connected to anything and I had never seen it before until last week.

 

Our drains start level with front of house in middle of drive and run down side of house to a man hole and then down back of our house and continues down the hill so were first in the line,

 

I have dug corner of drive up and found this drain that runs from under road and it seems to terminate directly under where water is coming from and ground round it is very soft,

 

My question is who is responsible for it as it not technically our drain

[Guest FurryFriend]

Generally, but not always, drainage will be the responsibility of the water company that your area is in. 

 

See this :

 

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/water/water-supply/sewerage/who-is-responsible-for-repairing-drains-and-sewers/

 

Good luck with it! The whole subject of drains is a minefield, and you'll find that councils and water companies are very reluctant to help with, be interested in, admit to,  or do anything about it.  They are thick as thieves when it comes to admitting anything! 

 

Try to get hold of a drainage plan for your street/road from public records. 

 

Short answer is..... There's no short answer. I had to deal with a very similar problem for my late Mum. It took me 3 years and the threat of law before it was resolved. Turned out the electricity board had drilled into a main drain whilst doing some work outside the house.  They obviously knew they had done it, because they had botched a repair, and put a lead saddle over the pipe, but it had seeped from that point on every time it rained heavily, as in your case. 

 

You may well need a solicitor, as I eventually did,  to prove negligence. My best advice to you and others is to take photos of all public work being done near, on or at your house whenever it happens. 

Edited 24 August, 2017 by FurryFriend

[KenONeill]

@Volvomeg - AIUI the short answer is "Who's land is the blockage/leak on?" This may not seem fair, but if it's on your land then you're responsible for upkeep.

[Auric Goldfinger]

3 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@Volvomeg - AIUI the short answer is "Who's land is the blockage/leak on?" This may not seem fair, but if it's on your land then you're responsible for upkeep.

 

I think if you can prove that the drain is under any other property but the leak is on your land the other properties are also responsible for the cost of any repairs. 

 

 

[peter_k]

It may be worth asking your question at http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php.

The mention of "Sub Station" makes me wonder if it is a disused cable duct.

Assuming the water is surface water, everyone says "it's nothing to do with us", it ends on your property and the drain doesn't point at your neighbours then you could consider a "diagnostic test" that might take years to get a result. Block the drain  see https://www.drainagesuperstore.co.uk/search/?keywords=drain plug&Price=  they say "We're here to help Call us now on 01752 692 221" or pick the brains at a plumbers/builders merchant

[Aspman]

9 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@Volvomeg - AIUI the short answer is "Who's land is the blockage/leak on?" This may not seem fair, but if it's on your land then you're responsible for upkeep.

 

I thought the same as Ken. Up to your boundary it's the water company in your boundary your problem.

 

That's the basis they were certainly trying to sell insurance under a few years ago.

[Volvomeg]

Emailed Yorkshire water last night and they rang me today and explained situation and there sending an investigation team out to have a look as apparently they are now first responders and then they pass it on to whoever's problem it is or fix it if its theirs.

 

I'm quiet happy to dig it out until I can get to it and cap it off if it just ends but waters obviously coming from somewhere and all ill end up doing is moving the issue further up drain

[Rustynuts]

6 minutes ago, Volvomeg said:

Emailed Yorkshire water last night and they rang me today and explained situation and there sending an investigation team out to have a look as apparently they are now first responders and then they pass it on to whoever's problem it is or fix it if its theirs.

 

I'm quiet happy to dig it out until I can get to it and cap it off if it just ends but waters obviously coming from somewhere and all ill end up doing is moving the issue further up drain

 

If the drain is on someone elses property then it becomes their problem.  At the moment your problem is being delivered to you via their drain so passing it back up the line seems perfectly reasonable.

[gadgetman]

Applies to England - 

 

If it's a shared drain it's the water board regardless of who's property it's on

 

If serving only you and on your land it's your problem. 

[Ryeman]

3 hours ago, gadgetman said:

Applies to England - 

 

If it's a shared drain it's the water board regardless of who's property it's on

 

If serving only you and on your land it's your problem. 

If not the council, your next option is the tradespeople who did the work ..........decades ago. Best of luck.

[Guest FurryFriend]

14 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

 

If the drain is on someone elses property then it becomes their problem.  At the moment your problem is being delivered to you via their drain so passing it back up the line seems perfectly reasonable.

The problem you've got 'capping it off' is that you might, quite inadvertantly, cause a problem for somebody else for which you might then become liable. 

Let Yorkshire Water report to you, and then go from there. I know it's annoying. Been there! 

 

 

[Volvomeg]

Slight update,

 

2 vans arrived on Friday with 1 high vis bloke in each van while me and swmbo were at work

 

They walked past the hole i've dug on drive and knocked on door, stood and had a conversion on drive next to said hole for 5 minutes, had a walk up and down drive,

 

then stood and had another conversion next to one of vans as next doors son was pottering about in front garden and then left,

 

What a complete and utter waste of time, obviously nothing I had said on phone got relayed to them,

[SuperbTWM]

A lot of people have said that you are responsible for your own drains.

 

But as this doesn't seem to be a drain from your house I can't see you being liable for it.

[Guest FurryFriend]

3 hours ago, Volvomeg said:

Slight update,

 

2 vans arrived on Friday with 1 high vis bloke in each van while me and swmbo were at work

 

They walked past the hole i've dug on drive and knocked on door, stood and had a conversion on drive next to said hole for 5 minutes, had a walk up and down drive,

 

then stood and had another conversion next to one of vans as next doors son was pottering about in front garden and then left,

 

What a complete and utter waste of time, obviously nothing I had said on phone got relayed to them,

Call their Head Office and relay this information to them. Basically, what the F did  they bother turning  up for? Muppets. 

[Volvomeg]

21 minutes ago, FurryFriend said:

Call their Head Office and relay this information to them. Basically, what the F did  they bother turning  up for? Muppets. 

 

If id of known I could have left a note on front door for them but they didn't give me a day when it was arranged for them to come but they did have my mobile number,

 

Have requested another call back, lets try again

[Guest FurryFriend]

Good luck with it. 

Hope you get it sorted out. 

 

I had to threaten my Mums water board with legal action. Easy to give an old lady the runaround... So they wrongly thought. 

 

One letter from my lawyers did the trick. 

Edited 3 September, 2017 by FurryFriend

[KenONeill]

@SuperbTWM - "Your drains" in this context means "Any drain crossing your property", not just your brown water and rone drains.

[SuperbTWM]

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@SuperbTWM - "Your drains" in this context means "Any drain crossing your property", not just your brown water and rone drains.

 

Well I can't find any evidence with my local water supplier that says I would be responsible for 'any pipe that just happens to be in my boundary', only if they are from my house or a neighbours so it is a grey area. 

 

I'm guessing its not the neighbours if it 'doesn't appear to be connected to anything'

 

I suppose they will try and get out of it no matter what

Edited 4 September, 2017 by SuperbTWM

[Warrior193]

Hi VM, as Gadgetman correctly says, in England maintenance of any shared drain (IE. any drain or duct) that is not solely servicing your house is now the responsibility of the service provider - Water, Gas, Electricity, etc.  

[Volvomeg]

Well after 5 phone calls today 3 of which I couldn't hear a word women was saying there coming out again Wednesday morning,

 

So am going to try and get a couple of hours off work so I can talk to them