Superb CR 170 - DSG or manual

[tenohfive]

Minus taking a test drive and having a look at one in person I'm pretty much settled on the Superb estate 2.0 CR 170 Elegance as my next car. I'm looking at the 2010-2013 model to stay in budget. I'm hoping to view a few this week but I've a few quick questions:

 

1. Manual or DSG? I've never owned or regularly driven auto's before, and never driven anything with DSG. I'm coming round to the idea of DSG but wondered a ) is reliability an issue, and b ) some people mention jerkiness pulling away and I spend a fair bit of time in the Lakes/Snowdonia/Scotland etc, is this a DSG issue and will it be a problem doing hillstarts on the Hardknott pass?

2. Cam belt. I'm more confused than when I first started googling the answer - how often should it be replaced? The best answer I've seen is 4 years or 100k miles, whichever comes first - but I can't find confirmation (including the online manual linked in this forum.)

3. Any general pointers for buying, things to look out for etc?

Edited 30 August, 2017 by tenohfive

[tenohfive]

Oh, one other thing - any real benefit to the 4x4 version if one pops up in budget?

[superbdreams]

I wanted a manual but couldn't find an L&K in manual.

The DSG is fantastic, no jerkiness except reverse when going uphill. changes gear without being able to feel it and quicker than you could so better economy you would think.

Also learns your style of driving. very clever.

The downside is the oil change at every 40 000 miles.. big expense!

 

As for the cam belt, it is either 4 years or five years depending on the year of registration. (there is a thread on this currently so search)

also search for dsg oil change.

 

I cant help with a 4 X4 as all I know is the mpg is 10% worse so I discounted it as an option.

[Superb170]

Most jerkiness is when the engine if cold or in very slow traffic but manual and sport modes help a lot for that.  Uphill reversing can be a little jerky sometimes but again more so when the engine (and gearbox) is trying to warm up.  After a while and with some practice, it is very manageable though.  DSG was the one thing I never had with the Superbs (MkII) I owned and I regret not getting it sooner.  If you're confidant that the car has been well looked after, drives well and the oil in the box has been changed at the correct intervals.  As reported by many of us on here over the last few years, one of the issues (and probably the only main one really) with the Superb II is the EGR valve which tended to give trouble on a few cars.  Good luck with your search!

[jafo]

As you want such a big - and heavy car - you shouldn't expect it to be super economic

If it was serviced properly - go for DSG - and if you want better traction - go for 4x4 as well  

Then chip or re-map it

[chimaera]

Having owned both manual and DSG with that engine I'd say it comes down to the sort of driving you do. DSG is great in stop-start traffic. It suits the character of the car well out on the open road too - big lazy cruiser. In D mode I find it slow to respond to a poke of the accelerator pedal - annoying when coming down off a speed bump and you want to get moving quickly away from it. Generally, D mode is optimised heavily for economy over performance - it'll change up very early, especially with small accelerator pedal inputs. S is much more aggressive with shifts - it'll usually hold gears until 3000 rpm even when you don't have the pedal pushed down hard. I find myself rarely using it. Ideally it could do with a third driving mode, somewhere inbetween D & S. I'm considering a DSG remap at some point to see if it can be improved a bit in D.

 

As for hills, I bought my car in Derby and then took the scenic route to Holyhead via the Snowdonia National Park (Welshpool->Dolgellau->Betws-y-Coed->Holyhead) and it had no issues dealing with the hills around there. I didn't get to try any steep hill starts but I don't see it being a problem. It might be worth checking that hill-hold is enabled for this case though.

 

If it's your first automatic, it'll take some time to get used to it - it's a very different driving experience and you may initially be put off by the test drive.

 

The wet-clutch 6 speed DSG fitted to the CR170 is not known for reliability problems once it's serviced properly. It needs a fluid and filter change every 60000 km. If you're not sure this has been done, walk away. The DMF can fail with time, but this isn't a specific failing of the DSG. The DSG is probably kinder to the DMF than a manual anyway.

 

If you want DSG with 4x4, you're stuck with the CR140 on the pre-facelift cars. To get it with the CR170 you'd have to get a facelift car. From what I remember during my searches, spec is a bit meaner on the facelift models. If you're driving a lot in rural Scotland/Wales you'll probably realise some benefit from 4x4, subject to having good rubber on the wheels.

 

As for jerkiness, it depends on how quickly you want to get moving from a standing start. If you floor it, the take-off can be a bit abrupt. If you let it roll off the start and then hit the accelerator it's nice and smooth. Up and down changes are generally very smooth - almost imperciptible unless you're paying attention to the engine noise/speed. It can get caught out if your speed is hovering around a shift point and it's not sure which gear to pick. I also find mine a bit jerky when you go into kickdown - it could do with making the downshift a little bit more progressive. It's worth getting a full reset done on the gearbox once you buy it - it resets all the fuzzy logic learning and forces the controller to relearn the bite points for the clutches and the engagement points for the gears. It takes about 10 minutes with VCDS followed by a 20-30 minute test-drive.

 

As for general pointers, I've found the front parking sensors useful if you can find a car with them fitted. The front overhang is quite long and it can be hard to place. Check that the luggage cover in the boot retracts properly - the spring can break and prevent this happening. I had this on my first Superb and fixed it - I've documented this in a thread somewhere here. Usual used-car buying tips apply - make sure all the electrical equipment works, the Superb has a lot of it in Elegance spec. Especially, check the exterior mirrors - do they fold in/out, do they heat up, do they respond to the joystick adjustment. Passenger side mirror should move when you select reverse.

 

Check the adjustment of the front seats - they slide forward/backward, the base tilts front and rear, the backrest tilts, the lumbar support is height adjustable as well as depth. All of this is electrical so check it works. Do the heated seats work front and rear (if fitted)? 

 

Does the heated windscreen work (if fitted)?

 

Check the functionality of the headlights - they are fitted with AFS 2. When switched on to dipped beam they should do a little dance: both lamps turn down, then out to the sides before centering and rising back up.

[tenohfive]

Thanks for the replies, particularly that last (comprehensive) one.

[jonathan.tong]

We find the DSG on our CR170 silky smooth. As already mentioned, there can be jerkiness if pulling away sharply from stationary and this is easily solved by a rolling start before flooring it. Hill starts have taken some time to learn but in general are ok.

 

We find that selecting S is useful if planning an overtake as, if in D, dropping from 6th to 3rd or 4th can be slower than you'd want it to be. Then reselect D when the overtake is done to return to cruising.

 

We've also noted that when towing, our gearbox can unnecessarily hold onto 5th when 6th would be fine. Manually selecting 6th before going back to D fixes this.

[Bristolf2b]

Oh, manual every time.

[tenohfive]

4 minutes ago, Bristolf2b said:

Oh, manual every time.

 

Care to elaborate?

[Bristolf2b]

I don't like them, I'd take a torque converter auto every time if offered. Chimaera's post identifies many of the points I'd make, take off can be jerky/delayed, it is either too lazy or too aggressive- I agree a mode between D and S would be better, more fuel used, higher servicing costs, higher purchase price unless you are forced by VAG to have DSG or no car with that particular engine/4wd combination etc. etc.

 

Having said that of all the ( many) cars I have driven with DSG it does suit petrol engines better in my experience. 

 

As it is I stick to manual. I don't do much driving in traffic

Edited 30 August, 2017 by Bristolf2b

[williamshatnerspants]

As above if you do a lot of city driving DSG is the way to go. No-one has mentioned the flywheel problem in the manual gearbox.... if you do a search on the forum you'll find out about it (I can't remember if it applies to the 170). The DSG while smooth and fast is still a more risky proposition than the old style torque converter auto. My DSG doesnt like slow crawling in traffic for more than a few minutes (gets grabby), and requires the use of the handbrake when reversing uphill into a parallel park (not sure why my hill holder only works when going forward). Lastly, while the 6 speed DSG is more reliable than the 7 speed (wet vs dry clutch) I fear than one day the mechatronics (or whatever they are called) will die and I'll be left with bill of about half the value of the car.

[tenohfive]

Well I'm now the proud owner of a Superb 2.0 CR 170 with a DSG box. I liked the drive, everything was just easy going. Not as powerful as my last car but I knew that going in; I've favoured a relaxing style of driving over the 1% of the time when I'd be a bit more assertive. Thanks for the advice everyone.

I apologise for not trawling through the manuals to answer these questions, but a couple of things I'd like to change sooner rather than later:

 

1. Muting the Satnav so I've got directions but no voice. How?

2. On the dash display it comes up with my current speed - but in kph. I've dug around and despite other settings being imperial/mpg etc, I can't work out how to change it to mph?

 

Finally, remap etc. Worth it? Are my insurers likely to increase my premium much if I did?

[chimaera]

Congrats on the new bus.

 

I believe the satnav directions can be muted but it's not something I've looked into myself.

 

The speed display can be changed, but you need VCDS to recode your instrument cluster to Australian mode.

 

As for the remap question, it comes down to whether or not you're unhappy with the car's current performance? It will have some effect on your insurance, and any warranty that remains on the car. How much of an effect is hard to say: you would have to go talk to them.

[jafo]

Or you can chip it - removable and transferable solution - but you need to inform insurance company anyway.

[chimaera]

9 minutes ago, jafo said:

Or you can chip it - removable and transferable solution - but you need to inform insurance company anyway.

Will you ever sod off with your chips! They are a terrible solution.

[TheRobinK]

8 hours ago, chimaera said:

Will you ever sod off with your chips!

 

Chips are much maligned - they are an absolutely superb and healthy option if they are cooked in sunflower oil and only lightly salted. 

 

I've not put any chips in my mighty 1.6d.  I've had a few daft gob****es telling me I need to put a chip in it.  As if one chip that stinks of diesel is going to make a dinner. 

[Godzillasdad]

I've got a 2012 mk2 superb estate 2.0 dsg 103k miles. Drive it sensibly, 55mpg, drive it like you have a tray of eggs on the bonnet, 65mpg. 45 mpg round town. LOVE IT.

[cnc]

On ‎01‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 10:07, tenohfive said:

1. Muting the Satnav so I've got directions but no voice. How?

Wait until a sat nav voice is giving you a command, during the voice command wind the volume down to zero. The radio should return to the volume it was at before the nav came on.

 

This is how I set the radio/nav volumes in my car, but I've never tried to set the volume to zero.

[Graham Butcher]

DSG everytime for me. Have had both manuals and DSG's and the relaxed driving with the DSG is brilliant, especially in heavy traffic. Manuals I find, can get very snatchy and jerky in heavy traffic and so does its sibling, the Passat. As has already been said, unless you have a very heavy right foot, the changes with a DSG are not noticeable at all unless you are really paying very close attention to the rev counter and the engine note. Because the changes are so smooth, I really expect the impact on a DMF is going be considerably less which has to be a good thing surely?