PROPOSED 20 BLANKET LIMIT ON SCOTTISH ROADS

[VWD]

Quite a few Scottish members on here who might have missed this (IMHO) very biased consultation document .

http://www.parliament.scot/gettinginvolved/104723.aspx

IMHO- far better to get Police out and about , and stop drivers doing what the pros consider is "in approprate" speed in places where there's a hazard. But no- like the TV progrm "DOM ON THE SPOT" it's all about income, rather than prevention.

[S00perb]

20 blanket limit? - I know it gets cold up there, but 4 should be enough

 

[KenONeill]

Talk about a badly designed survey! I had to restate pretty much the same points in response to every question, and why they would expect that anyone would do otherwise is beyond me.

[camelspyyder]

Normally feels like 20 all the way up the A9 anyway.

[Ootohere]

That consultation received lots of publicity in Scotland then.

  Not!   Probably as much maters as the Edinburgh Airport extension consultation and survey, something was up with the email addresses or such like and returns lost deleted or whatever.   Scotland not too hot on IT except for the system that approves MSP,s expenses.

     I will be watching Mark's expenses and I expect he adheres to his Green principals,  Park and ride in Stirlingshire, Fife or wherever, then bikes or walks after he takes an electric or hydrogen bus into Edinburgh. Saving the planet and the tax payer. 

 

 

Edited 14 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Aspman]

Consultations usual already decided. It's just to tick the box so it gets hidden away somewhere to ensure no dissenting opinions are heard.

 

A 20 limit is fine where appropriate but we're already getting inappropriately low limits in random places. Seemingly design to make a local dignitary feel important and doing nothing to help traffic flow or safety.

[Ootohere]

I read that Edinburgh City Council' 20 MPH scheme has cost 2.2 million squids.

Worth every penny no doubt for the 'Cameras', contractors / labour, Coloured Road Surfaces, Paint and some signs, consultation, consultants, meetings, public meetings, 

etc etc and then the VAT.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39103566 

Edited 14 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[VWD]

On 9/14/2017 at 13:55, KenONeill said:

Talk about a badly designed survey! I had to restate pretty much the same points in response to every question, and why they would expect that anyone would do otherwise is beyond me.

As said on every other place I've seen this "consultation" document mentioned, it's similar to what the old SCP used to do to attempt to gain public approval for their nefarious activity .

[skomaz]

Sounds like the usual knee jerk and badly informed policy making...

[Ootohere]

A proposal from the Scottish Greens, and it is just to make 20 mph the default built up area currently with 30mph as the default, and then allow the restricted speed to be increased to 30-or 40 mph where applicable.

 

No harm done really, other than the expense of it, but then Councillors love meetings, planners love meeting, contractors live contracts and lawyers live everyone that need laws passing or challenged.

Win win really maybe even for tax payers, and even for non tax payers if pollution is reduced and accidents due to less motorised vehicles, 

but not if the traffic is just sitting gridlocked longer and still polluting.

 

Maybe first the Taxis & Busses need to be required in urban areas to be zero or very low emissions.

That would be those stinkers in Edinburgh for starters....

[mrgf]

20MPH limits produce MORE fumes etc as cars/vehicles are usually in lower gears anyway. This is usually the case with fuel wastage too, costs MORE to drive slow, in low gears!

 

Obviously, cars will start to be built with 20MPH as the best fuel efficiency area but up till now, its been around 40MPH to 50MPH. 

 

The 20 limits are supposedly wanted by residents who have been TOLD its cleaner (******) And safer but how can it be safer if pedestrians just walk directly in front of vehicles, thinking they will be able to stop in time as they are only doing 20!

 

The lower limits are supposedly wanted by drivers too, as they are told it is safer to drive slower (******). Drive slower, you will find motorists thinking they have time to look at phones, sat-nave, shop windows, pretty girls and/or boys walking by etc... Sorry I ran you over, I was just texting Rupert to say I saw his new phone, half price in that big shop on the high street... The one where that gorgeous girl stands in the window, waving a tom-tom at passers-by!

 

After lowering the limit AND advertising it on the back of buses, a certain London bourough will most likely be saying how successful it has been and pat its-self on the back for being first. First that is, despite the realisation that no-one, not even the buses with the adverts on or the cyclists etc, pay a blind bit of notice to this lower limit! I have NEVER, EVER driven around in that area, Hackney or my own borough of Tower Hamlets, Who adopted the same limit as a 'Trial' And have failed to report on or remove or prove the limit works, witness drivers okay the limit. Drive at 20 and sooner or later (Usually sooner) Some cupid stunt (Spoonerism) Will try and overtake you and usually do it in the most dangerous part of the road anyway!

 

Ok, put the odd 20 limit outside schools for a reasonable distance either side but blanket bans are for blinkered fools!

[Ootohere]

Only the OP's title is Blanket Limit.   not even Blanket Ban. 

It is a default speed instead of 30mph, and then according to location location location or time of the day week there can be variations to that decided locally by the local Authority / Council.

So not a Blanket 20mph on all roads currently 30 mph in Scotland. 

 

They dont want cars not built to be fuel efficient at 20 mph if they are petrol or diesel, it is Scotland the land of loads of electricity if you believe The Greens / SNP, 

but actually it can be, 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-40874569 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-38130094 

So EV's. are what they want, there are Vehicle Restricted City Centres coming & some major routes in urban areas

Already 20mph in Edinburgh City Centre.. Many other cities are not moving quicker than 20 mph anyway, which is why walking or cycling is quicker than driving.

http://consult.scotland.gov.uk/transport-scotland/building-scotlands-low-emission-zones 

Spy cameras set to be installed across Scotland to fine drivers with high-polluting vehicles - Sunday Post.mhtml

Edited 15 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[VWD]

Anyone care to have a look at the "questionnaire" ? Some of the questions are that biased toward getting the person filling it in as to get them to say it is a good thing.

[cheshire_cat]

I would guess a very well designed survey   got exactly the conclusion they wanted-----Sorted

[cheshire_cat]

On 9/14/2017 at 13:55, KenONeill said:

Talk about a badly designed survey! I had to restate pretty much the same points in response to every question, and why they would expect that anyone would do otherwise is beyond me.

as above --sorry 

[Ootohere]

If the '2,000 responses so far' increased by even 50% before closing on Friday then that might just be considered by the most charitable as being a 'Poor Response' to the consultation.

 

Maybe a 'survey' will be needed to ask those that could have responded if the 'horlicks' of a Consultation put them off responding!

 

Mark Ruskell MSP seams to have said back in May that 'An opinion poll shows most Scots support the idea'.

I take it he means more than half of those polled said that they supported it,  so he reckons that can be said to be Most Scots', even though all were never asked,  and it was not actually something like over 2.7 Million Scots that support the idea.

(Not even 4 million voted in the Scottish Independence Referendum!)

 

This will be one of the sad cases mentioned by someone in the consultation. 30mph Trunk Road in Coupar Angus and a driver at 50 mph on the phone txting / overtaking and then the worst of outcomes.  The driver was not adhering to even the 30mph, 

but the Prosecutor says there was no evidence that being on the phone was a contributory factor!! (this was reported in other articles, not bthis one.)

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41279360 

 

Safer Streets consultation shows frustration in communities at attempts to cut speed - Scottish Greens.mhtml

Edited 17 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[VWD]

Well if they go by my home address, I won't be consider as a Scot, but then I'm in the same boat as my maternal Grand father, who's folks had to seek new opportunities for fishing ,founding what was at one time one of the largest herring ports in Scotland, after English/ Scottish landlords with English bias decided that sheep made more money. I moved out to find work ,that the English Government of the time decided should move south.

Seems that the new version of those charged for looking after the interests of the Scotish nation, seem to regards the voters as little more than sheep- wiling to follow the bloke with most feed.

  But then they won't be interested in my reply, as I gave negative replies to most of their ideas.

Sorry to be so bitter, but I've sat by my grand dads side and heard how it was.

On the roads side- a lot of motorists would /will follow the 5000. What next, if it's full of un needed 20 limits, then tourism will suffer. 

Edited 17 September, 2017 by VWD

[cheshire_cat]

but think what a great cottage industry will develop on all those tourist speeding fines 

[Ootohere]

Already in places on some trunk road towns and villages and more are being planned & approved already.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34307227 

http://carricktoday.co.uk/news/politics/20mph-plan-for-carrick-villages-1-4497694 

Edited 18 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[VWD]

4 hours ago, cheshire_cat said:

but think what a great cottage industry will develop on all those tourist speeding fines 

With even greater benefits ( at present I believe in Scotland there's no such thing as a SAC) once the SCP /Police discover how lucrative courses are ( especially for retired/ redundant Police officers)

[sarcastic mode] We might even see a new Scottish Road signs handbook + HC where NSL is 20 [/sarcastic]

[Ootohere]

22 Million Funding for Walking & Cycling routes in Scottish Cities.  If it is coming from speeding fines then good, i added to those...

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41309510 

 

Edited 18 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[VWD]

Hope that the cycle routes in the Highlands will make cyclists aware that on road crossings THEY do not have automatic rights. Witness the Lochaber one, where a race cyclist on a route was killed

Edited 18 September, 2017 by VWD

[KenONeill]

@VWD - I get your point; there ARE give way markings on the Great Glen cycle route where it cuts roads, at least on the stretch North out of Am Gearasden where it parallels the A82(T).

[VWD]

KEN- there's also a white bike on the exit from the council works road( just north of the A830 junction) to show that at least one very experienced cyclist got it wrong.

[stever750]

On 15/09/2017 at 20:55, mrgf said:

 

 

Obviously, cars will start to be built with 20MPH as the best fuel efficiency area but up till now, its been around 40MPH to 50MPH. 

 

I know I'm being pedantic, but on what basis can you make this claim? What evidence?