Emissions remap

[matnrach]

Just about to take delivery of a 2014 model. I dont yet know if it has had the emission remap yet but I assume it has done.

I have a few questions as  I have been reading some horror stories from having  this remap done to their VW group car (EGR / DPF , injector failures etc)

1. Anybody had issues?

2. Does the Skoda online checker using the VIN number tell you whether it actually has been done or not?

3. Can it be reversed?. If so how?

 

Thanks in advance

[chimaera]

1. Lots of pub talk but I'm not sure how many are having issues that are provably linked to the update.

 

2. I don't think so. A dealer can tell you if you give them the VIN or reg. Alternatively, it should have a sticker beside the build label in the spare wheel well with 23R6 on it.

 

3. Skoda cannot legally reverse it - once they apply the update they can't/won't roll it back. You're welcome to get it remapped by a third party tuner but the usual caveats apply.

[matnrach]

Thanks for the info chimaera. 

Although I can believe there is lots of 'pub talk' regarding performance/fuel economy, if the emissions has actually been reduced you can assume that the EGR valve has become more active which would lead to potential failures of the valve and DPF clogging. These are the reported failures of the remap.

I wonder in what area of the map it has been most altered?

[TasMan]

I picked up my 2014 estate last November and it was about 6 months later when I eventually bothered to take a note of the VIN and stick it in the checker.  It did come up confirming the fix had been done which initially surprised me as I was looking into getting a remap at that point.  When I was later in at the dealer I asked them to confirm 'the fix' and sure enough on the service log the fix was listed in the service history.  This happened just before I bought the car, presumably when it came in for trade in so I am none the wiser as to the performance before the fix.  Mine is the 140 which seems more than adequate for my use, never lacked in power.  Fuel consumption isn't great at 42 - 45 MPG but I am dragging around a 4x4!!    Incidentally, I looked for the 23R6 sticker and couldn't find it so I wouldn't go on the fact it has/hasn't got a sticker.   

As for remapping, I am still considering this but need to find out more detail.  I would prefer a remap from the factory map, rather than a remap from the 'fix' map, as apparently there are significant differences.  Hope that helps.

[Ootohere]

Nothing like pub talk, other than that is what VW Group & VW UK would like it to believed to be.  Just internet myth, overblown online.

Briskoda members share their experiences good and bad and say when they have no issues.  Then there are some that say Pub Talk!

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/438006-control-system-for-exhaust-warning-light 

[matnrach]

TasMan. That is interesting that you feel the engine responds well . According to many reports on the subject, some people who have had the remap immediately complain about the lack of power, rattling from the engine etc. The car I am getting drove very well and appeared not to suffer from any lack of power, but as you say I have no reference.

I wonder if the engines that have had performance issues also suffer from EGR failures or is this unrelated.

I will upgrade the Bolero stereo to the latest android unit and fit an OBDII dongle and monitor the DPF temperatures to see how long it is between DPF regenerations . If the time is short (less than 200miles I would say) then I will look into trying to put the original map back in.

I can't help thinking that stuffing more EGR and going from single to multiple injections (I believe this is also what has been done) without exhaustive development testing, which there clearly has not been,  is a good idea

[matnrach]

Interesting video:

 

[TasMan]

On ‎19‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 20:31, matnrach said:

TasMan. That is interesting that you feel the engine responds well . , but as you say I have no reference.

I wonder if the engines that have had performance issues also suffer from EGR failures or is this unrelated.

 fit an OBDII dongle and monitor the DPF temperatures to see how long it is between DPF regenerations

 

 

That's the key, I have no reference to how the car was before the fix unfortunately, but the engine runs very smooth, plenty of power (within the limits of 140!) for what I need and I have towed a heavy trailer several times now with no issues.  Power delivery seems smooth and pulls well in 3rd and 4th, fairly effortless overtaking on dual carriageways etc.  Maybe I am lucky but long term I do wonder what effect it will have on the engine and EGR/DPF. 

I wondered about an OBDII dongle to monitor, not done anything about it, please update with your findings and what dongle you go for.    Cheers Dave

Edited 21 September, 2017 by TasMan
Spelling

[matnrach]

Dave

How many miles has the car done? Looks like the problems may be associated with engines that already have clogged or partially clogged EGR coolers which would probably make sense. I will plug my Ebay special OBD2 dongle (bought  a few years ago and it looks like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-Bluetooth-ELM327-OBD2-Car-Scanner-Android-Torque-OBD-Auto-Scan-Tool-UK-/331912606441?epid=879167221&hash=item4d478872e9:g:BPMAAOSw2gxYq6DI)

and see how much life the FAP has in it and how this changes over a few weeks.

I have also been in contact with a remap service who say they can reflash (NOT remap) the ecu back to factory spec which sounds a good idea

Regards

Stuart

[matnrach]

Just picked it up. VIN plate suggests it has had the EA189 'fix' but absolutely no issues. 120mile trip and 60.6mpg ave for the 2.0 140hp model so not too bad.

Will start logging the DPF regen soon.

[pablomax]

I had mine done about a month ago. To be honest, I didn't notice any difference at all in the performance. If anything, I would say it runs slightly smoother.

Unfortunately, I have no choice in the matter. If you want to get the paper to drive the car, you have to comply.

[gman88667733]

I drove a 2.0tdi 140hp Yeti with and without the fix on it, same year and similar enough mileage. The one with the fix has significantly less grunt at the low end, to the point that it didn't like 3rd gear at lower than 30mph. It was very noticeable.

Fuel consumption was the same on both though.

 

I wouldn't buy a 'fixed' car. Whether you believe it or not, the components it affects will have a much shorter life.

Edited 22 September, 2017 by gman88667733

[Ootohere]

pablomax,

That is as you would expect as when not many vehicles were done and those that were were mostly VW Group Owned / Leased / Financed vehicles 

& they said there were only 1% complaining.  

Then as more private owned vehicles were done the 'Official Complaints' or vehicles with issues were clearly higher than 1%.

So who knows yet if 10% that have had the fix are having premature hardware part failures, and what the number will be over time.

 

So obviously the failure rate is not 50% or 100% because if it was we and the authorities would know just what was what,

the thing is that now it is maybe time for honest figures of how many TDI in Europe have now had The Fix, 

How many complaints of adverse affects have there been, and how many that have had The Fix are having secondary actions to deal with Adverse Affects from The Fix.

[TasMan]

On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 08:56, matnrach said:

Dave

How many miles has the car done? 

I have also been in contact with a remap service who say they can reflash (NOT remap) the ecu back to factory spec which sounds a good idea

 

Hi Stuart, Thought I had replied to this yesterday....  My car has now done 28500, it was 18000 when I picked it up.  Basically 10K of good motoring and the only issues have been a few niggles and issues I have mentioned on another thread.  Couple of warranty repairs have been done but again, related to the trim rather than running gear.

Interested to hear how you get on with the 'reflash' back to factory spec, has the company guaranteed that this will remove 'the fix' ?  Because I am not too up to speed on the subject I would be wondering where they are getting the factory spec map from i.e, is this definitely back to factory spec?  Can they get this direct from Skoda, or are they taking this from a 'non fixed' car to replicate on other cars of the same model ?    Lots of questions that spring to mind....

Will check out the dongle you suggest and would be pleased if you can update us in due course.    Your reported MPG just shows the difference between 2WD (which I assume you have) and my 4x4....roughly 15 MPG worse off for me, and that is with a pretty efficient driving style.  I tend to ignore the Maxidot gear change indicators and go with my own gut feel based on engine response/noise.  Its always wanting me to change up but I often feel changing up is labouring the engine too much, which won't to the DMF much good....

[matnrach]

So I have had a look at the free VAG DPF app and it says it has not regenerated for the last 650km which seems OK.

I very rarely do short journeys so maybe the fix will make little difference to me.

I need to gather more data 

[terrytowelling]

I thought they just took off their cheat software

[chimaera]

2 hours ago, terrytowelling said:

I thought they just took off their cheat software

For the billionth time, no.

 

Simply removing the cheat would lead to two possibilities: the car is emissions compliant all the time but has much poorer power and economy; or the car has its original power and economy but is never emissions compliant. Neither is viable. The software fix applies a completely new map which aims to resolve the emissions issue without sacrificing performance.

[terrytowelling]

A billion times? Using the same exaggeration as VW then I see  ?      Company spokesman are we?

[S00perb]

3 hours ago, terrytowelling said:

I thought they just took off their cheat software

 

Yep - sound like it

(sorry chimaera couldn't resist!!)

[Breezy_Pete]

I must have written it at least 20 times in various sub-forums on here, maybe more.

 

My simplest explanation is probably this one:

 

Edited 27 September, 2017 by Wino

[chimaera]

21 minutes ago, terrytowelling said:

A billion times? Using the same exaggeration as VW then I see  ?      Company spokesman are we?

An exaggerated response to your gross oversimplification. Reality is a lot more complicated and nuanced than that.

[S00perb]

7 minutes ago, Wino said:

I must have written it at least 20 times in various sub-forums on here, maybe more.

 

My simplest explanation is probably this one:

 

I think the words you were looking for are "they just took off their cheat software "

(we will get you to 1 billion soon enough)

[matnrach]

Sorry if this has been described before but does anybody know EXACTLY what was changed on the 'fix' map compared to standard for the 2.0 engine

[chimaera]

34 minutes ago, matnrach said:

Sorry if this has been described before but does anybody know EXACTLY what was changed on the 'fix' map compared to standard for the 2.0 engine

Not that I'm aware of outside of VAG and probably Bosch. There's been a lot of guesswork, educated or otherwise, and some deductions made from little tidbits thrown out here and there.

[Breezy_Pete]

VAG have admitted to upping the EGR flow rates on the 1.6 engines (see pdf linked in this post). I see no particular reason to suspect that won't apply to the 2.0 engines also.   I seem to remember that pdf also refers to changes to injection timing pattern. Taster quote:

"specifically, the update includes a revised fuel injection pattern, meaning that the number of injections, as well as the timing of those injections are changed. An additional fuel injection phase has been added but as it is formed from part of the fuel quantity of the main injection there is no negative effect on fuel consumption. The software update also increases the affected vehicles’ exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) rate, which results in lower NOx production. "