The story of the famous DQ200 clutch slip...

[Ootohere]

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Which country are you in, and how wide spread do you believe the issue is and the failure of the part you have issues with?

[krigl]

7 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

?

Which country are you in, and how wide spread do you believe the issue is and the failure of the part you have issues with?

I am from Slovenia. 

The problem affects all of ea211 engines (1.0 tsi, 1.2tsi , 1.4 tsi except 1.4tsi twincharge),  based on my research. 

 

Also, since more and more people are trying this fix, all I want to acomplish here is for everyone that this fix helps, to post here a comment about success to allow more people understand the issue and help themselves. 

[Ootohere]

Is this just with Skoda, not VW, Audi or SEAT or them as well?

So you think Euro 5 & Euro 6 Mk2 & Mk3 Fabia except the Twinchargers right and left hand drive with DSG.

 

I think not, but then you have done your research.

 

If you are right,  VW Group can do the fix as it will be a Fundamental Design, Manufacturing / material failure and not just something a Warranty needs to cover.

They will need to issue a TPI and have revised parts produced and available for fitting.

We Sample the EA211, Volkswagen’s Next Global Four-Cylinder Engine Series _ Car and Driver Blog.mhtml

Edited 16 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[krigl]

I have no hope for such a TPI for old engines without waranty. They just do not care... I think this afffects all brands, since the 1.2 engines were produced in skoda factory for the whole group... 

 

Maybe they will see this and fix it on the new 1.0 tsi, 1.2 and 1.4 are no longer being produced anyway. 

Edited 16 October, 2017 by krigl

[Ootohere]

The 1.5TSI is only being introduced now, there are still 1.4TSI ea211 engines produced and plenty still in Warranty in various VW Group models.

 

VW Group only do not care until they have no choice but to care.

If your research is good then some motoring journal / journalist will take on board what you are able to prove.

Some Media are happy to not just follow the lead from the fanboys.

Edited 16 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[krigl]

 fanboy, my arse 

It is just a car in my perspective... But I am strict on mechanic objects that I own... They must work flawlesly. Period.

 

And I do not have the patience for useles mechanics to solve issues that take forever to resolve. And usually they have no clue where to start or even listen to my story. 

Edited 16 October, 2017 by krigl

[Ootohere]

^^^ Do you mean Technicians / Fitters, do you deal with Mechanics / Motor Engineers?

 

Have fun with it.

[krigl]

My previous post refered to the personell at the dealers, from the appointment booking person to the technitians, to mechanics, body shop personel, etc... All rubbish... 

 

And it has been like this anywhere I go. (not just this car, every car that me or my close family has owned)  At the end i do most of things myself...why?... Because I know it will be done right the first time and without cost cutting. 

 

I trust only two mechanics in our country that are self employed,  to sometimes tinker with my car if I do not have time or tools to do the job. 

[krigl]

Ok, due to multiple variations of the proposed fix I have tested, this has been the most successful, and cost effective and trace-less from outside (excluding zip ties), and also no sealant is needed.

 

 

The first test with this setup has reduced the slips by 90%, but I still get some. I will see how it will go in next week or so.

 

[norsko]

Have you leak/pressure test the connection and actually see that there are leaks there? And testing again after you have added more gasket and see that there is any difference?

[krigl]

Please read again the first post, yes I did a leak test...

[krigl]

So to put things together and bring this story to an end, I can report, that my car is like new again...

 

Testing and modifications result is in my view quite strange, but plausable, so here it goes.

 

It turns out, that the boost leak is not the only coulprit here, and has been discovered actualy by acident when I think about it now. But as my evidence on the boost pressure hose being rubbed and a slight channel has been formed in the place where the gasket seals the coupling, it would only get worse over time, so this needed to be addressed with extra gaskets and zip-ties. See a few posts before, where a drawing shows my solution.

 

After this modification has been made, as I said there has been a 90% improvement of the problem, but that remaining 10% was still noticable, so I dug deeper into resolution...

 

Do you remember the intake tube from the front mask to the air box... Well it was still making noise, because I have used only folded paper to fix it, obviously it was not enough.

So yet again I have taken the trusty zip-ties and also put them instead of the paper fix. And viola... no more buzzing sound and no more slip from gearbox.

 

What then does sound have to do with clutch slip you might ask? I do not know, but it does a hell lot with the knock sensor... If I can here the buzzing sound in the drivers seat, the engine knock sensor obviously can also.

Where do I see a problem? Well I gues when the resonating sound is in sync with the vibrations of the engine piston ignition and the knock sensor is to sensitive and mistakenly thinks that there is knock present, then the ECU alters the ignition phase and also injection quantity and so on..., which in result equals surging of the engine,... I think you know where this is going...

 

So if anybodi is interested, how they can try this cheap DIY solution with almost no cost, a few zip ties is enough...

The extra gaskets are not a must for a simple test. If the issue is resolved at least by 50% by just using zip-ties, you are on the right track I gues...

The zip-ties must be fasten quite hard to eliminate the chatter. See pictures below... The white ones are much stronger...

 

 

I will however revise some of fastening points to be more stealth, but at least for two weeks I will leave it as is, since I have enough tinkering with the car at the moment.

 

Please also notice that I recommend, that you also zip-tie the folowing item also (just in case, a nother item that is designed quite flimsy):

 

Ok, as I said, for me, case is closed,

 

For every body else that has this problem and will do this simple fix and is kind enough to at least say hi and results he has achieved, it would be very helpfull for othere people also. Do not be greedy...!

 

For VW group engineers, please make a research regarding this and alter your software to make the knock sensor a little less sensitive to other chatter sounds...

 

Have a nice day.

[norsko]

I will try this on my wifes car although I am not convinced that your theory is correct

But I am willing to learn and will be pleased if it actually cures the problem.

 

I will report back in a week or three :-)

[Aknedude]

I have a 1,8 TSI 2017 is it the same issue on that engine.

[krigl]

Depends, as far as I know, that engine si quite different than the 1.2 and 1.4 withoit twincharge. 

[krigl]

Also depends on the knock sensor if it is the same as the bosch unit in 1.2 engine and SW that reads it, but I think not, or at least hope not.

[kappa85]

Hi Krigl, I'd like to congrat with you for your success! I have the same problem on a 2015 1.6 TDI 105cv with DQ200, I have less rpm jumps than you but more strong (200-300 rpm each time) and they're more noticeable in 3° and 5° gear. More then one year going from one dealer to another and another, one clutch pack replaced with no luck, software update done several times with sort of "workaround" applied (slowed gear change from 3 to 4 and from 4 to 5), so the problem is not solved and general gearbox behavior is really worse than before. The last time they said me "we've seen the problem, at the momento there's no solution, we will investigate"... but I already know there will never be solution. My question is: do you think you solution will work also for my engine? Is there any advice you can give me and to 1.6 TDI owners? I tried to understand in which conditions the slip happens but I couldn't find a pattern, except for temperatures, in summer is less noticeable. However, also in winter sometimes I can drive an entire morning without the problem happening, and every time I'm thinking it was solved by itself but it's not true unfortunately...
Thank you

Edited 11 November, 2017 by kappa85

[krigl]

During these slips on your diesel car, is there any rattling noise present? 

[kappa85]

On 12/11/2017 at 08:32, krigl said:

During these slips on your diesel car, is there any rattling noise present? 

 

No, I have never heard any rattle...

[krigl]

Do you have any chance to record this during drive using VCDS or Obdeleven for example? Since it is a diesel it is a little different approach to figure out if it matches my pattern on my petrol engine.

[Recretos]

On 16. 10. 2017 at 22:39, krigl said:

I am from Slovenia. 

The problem affects all of ea211 engines (1.0 tsi, 1.2tsi , 1.4 tsi except 1.4tsi twincharge),  based on my research. 

 

A fellow Slovenian. Zdravo  Your name gave it away tho.

 

I was wondering if you ever made any logs via OBD of the timing advance. If you would log the events, it would clearly show up as a retard during the whole faulty/slip sequence. And which would even further prove your theory, which I am inclined to agree with, because some knock sensors can be over sensitive (or actually the software controlling/listening to it), and looks like these TSI's might not be an exception. 

[krigl]

I am still waiting for the postman to bring it to me It is taking forever for the packet to arrive (obd tool). I also want prove this with a graph.

The only problem is that the knock sensor is a b**** to replace... the intake manifold has to come off, if it is faulty.

I want a graph before I go buy a knock sensor and waste my time replacing it.

[Recretos]

Thats cool, you can do quite a lot with it. I have it for about 1 month, and it is a great tool. Should help you for sure. But be vary. You might not see all the sensors that are actually in your car. For example I cant see the MAF sensor and oil temp sensor, even tho I know they are in the car (obiously). But I can see it on other cars, so the problem is perhaps not the obd tool. Looks like the ECU doesnt want to show everything to these basic devices. Tho it would show on VCDS. But ofc the price difference is huge.

 

Some of my examples.

[kappa85]

On 14/11/2017 at 21:03, krigl said:

Do you have any chance to record this during drive using VCDS or Obdeleven for example? Since it is a diesel it is a little different approach to figure out if it matches my pattern on my petrol engine.

Unfortunately not at the moment. But in the last weeks I made some empiric diagnostic, and I found that:

 

- in summer the slip was less noticeable, since temperatures are <10°C it became more noticeable

- if I drive for 10-15 minutes playing a bit with the gearbox in tiptronic mode and changing gear several times also when not necessary, if then I try to simulate the slip, it's less noticeable

- the behavior of the previous point causes also the engine to be a bit hotter, so I can't understand if it's less noticeable due to hot engine or to hot gearbox or something else

- the slip happens only with half accelerator pedal pressed. If I press it gently or if I ask for maximum torque and power, it doesn't happen

 

 

[n1tro]

Hey krigl, hi from your neighbour Croat!

 

I have same issue as Kappa , G7 1.6 tdi dsg, i've recorded all slipping. It became EXTREMELY annoying... I need to drive like 20-25 mins to slip "almost" dissapier.

 

Car has only 30tkm... Soon i have oil change and i've been wondering what they will say about that becouse first time they only did "basic setting" with gearbox and

didnt help ****.

 

1.  Look here, even 4TH gear is slipping while colder state, also 5th

 

2. 3rd gear jump

 

 

3.Also 4 and 5th