starting issues

[fazed]

Hi, first post and of course its a problem. Any help would be great.

 

I have a 2014 1.6tdi dsg which sometimes takes a while to start, as much as 3 or 4 seconds. Does not happen often and has been plugged in at skoda and and independent but no faults found. To me if a engine does not start it can be fuel or electrics but this is diesel and as it is modern I suppose electrics do come into it. Also the car can have an lumpy tick over at times although I do believe this could be an active dpf regen?

 

Anyone have any ideas or has this happened to anyone else?

 

thanks

 

[Trebor77]

Is the battery fully-charged ?

[fazed]

Yep battery is in good shape, engine turns over very strongly.

 

[POWYSWALES]

My 10 month old tdi octavia will sometimes take an extra second or 2 to start, ( probably 1 in every 7 starts ) I don't see it as a fault but more one of them things that can happen on occasions with the way a diesel engine works, keeping in mind it is a pressure ignition system and it starts quicker than Diesel cars of 10 plus years ago, my octavia has never failed to start within 3 seconds and it has not had any faults to date. The only way I would see it as a fault was if it was starting to take more than 5 seconds cranking or 2 to 3 attempts to get it to fire up.

[toni8b]

This happens to me as well but rarely, sometimes taking few seconds to start (3-4).

 

Battery is full and in good shape. Dont know what to attribute this.

[peterhardy]

A few years ago I had an older Peugeot diesel and had starting issues.  Turned out to be 2 faulty glow plugs.  Replaced these and all was good.  I have no clue whether these are still used but thought it was worth a mention.

[fazed]

Thanks for the thoughts, just annoys me that I seem to just have to accept it. Our 2011 fabia 1.6 tdi is on the button everytime, although this is the euro 4 engine. Maybe with euro 5 things are more delicate.

[Gabbo]

The problem is likely caused by injector drift.

There is a similar issue on the 2L TDi and Skoda issued a software fix to improve the situation (although its not perfect for all users).

However I don't recall the same SW fix being available for the 1.6 but could be wrong.

 

Electrical problems like glow-plugs or cam/crk sensors should throw & DTC which would be easy for your dealer to investigate.

 

What many people did was take a video of this & show to the dealer although it took some perciverence before they accepted to do something.

Usually the first responce is that its a diesel so its "normal" but as you already know this is not true.

4s to start might be normal at -20°C but not at normal UK températures.

 

[fazed]

On 12/10/2017 at 17:13, Gabbo said:

The problem is likely caused by injector drift.

There is a similar issue on the 2L TDi and Skoda issued a software fix to improve the situation (although its not perfect for all users).

However I don't recall the same SW fix being available for the 1.6 but could be wrong.

 

Electrical problems like glow-plugs or cam/crk sensors should throw & DTC which would be easy for your dealer to investigate.

 

What many people did was take a video of this & show to the dealer although it took some perciverence before they accepted to do something.

Usually the first responce is that its a diesel so its "normal" but as you already know this is not true.

4s to start might be normal at -20°C but not at normal UK températures.

 

thanks for your explanation. Dealer was dismissive as computer showed no faults. Seems it needs to break before they do something. Only other thing is a monitoring system but apparently they don't like do that as they expensive. looks like I will just let it irritate me a little longer, dealers only seem to be able to sort broken things rather than fault find these days.....

[Greenliner1]

My 2014 has this over cranking occasionally (about twice a week)  though it’s had the software upgrade, I also think this is an injector drift issue. 

 

What I have noticed though is that it never does it with Shell V Power, perhaps due to the increased Cetane rating or the Gas To Liquid (GTL) content, I’m not sure.

 

Anyhow, running Shell fuelsave at the moment so I’ll see if that makes any difference, very annoying - though I don’t know what more they can do to fix this once the software has already been upgraded?

 

Not a good characteristic on a modern CR engine - starts like a diesel of 20 years ago! What about all the unburnt diesel? If it wasn’t for the DPF I’d expect a nice cloud out of the exhaust.

 

Good luck in getting it sorted.

[Gabbo]

On ‎14‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 21:29, Greenliner1 said:

Not a good characteristic on a modern CR engine - starts like a diesel of 20 years ago! What about all the unburnt diesel? If it wasn’t for the DPF I’d expect a nice cloud out of the exhaust.

 

Normally it shouldn't be so bad for unburnt fuel.

During the long start it is only dead-cranking as there are no stumbles or coughs of the engine & when it catches the engine start is quick like normal & doesn't overrev as if there were a lot of excess full.

 

Modern diesels use several small pulses of fuel to give a controlled clean(er) combustion than old diesels that just slugged in the whole amount in one go.

The problem here with starting is that if the injectors drift the wrong way, the ECU thinks it is injecting fuel but the injector doesnt actually deliver anything at all.

 

The injection system for all manufacturers come from only 2 or 3 suppliers so most OEMs should suffer from this phenomena is some way.

I'm sure they all have clever software solutions for monitoring the drift & trying to compensate it & I think this is where the problem is with starting for the TDI.

 

The fuel pump & injectors should have some Learning routines which adapt to the components as they age/drift.

I would ask the garage to reset the fuel pump & injector Learning and give it a couple of days to relearn. (Not sure if they will do it at Skoda though)

From my experience, I think it would then be improved at least in the short term.

[Greenliner1]

Gabbo,

 

After the 320F software update the vRS ran like a dream, but has now returned to where it was previously. I believe the software update reset the learning as you suggested, but has not addressed the issue in the long term.

 

I’m wondering if something more needs addressing like injector cleaning?

 

The car does now occasionally cough then start, other times it cold cranks for a few seconds then other times it fires first turn.

 

Additionally the diesel is quite clattery when changing DSG gears when cold. This clattery noise was absent after the software was updated, but has now returned. It also disappears when using V power or when it warms up a bit, so I’m thinking it must be fuelling related.

 

thanks

[Greenliner1]

Additionally the car has prolonged cranked this afternoon on SHell Fuelsave diesel, so nothing to do with cheap supermarket fuel.

 

have a video of it for the upcoming service but don’t know what else they can do.

 

 

Edited 16 October, 2017 by Greenliner1

[joeyrich]

I've been having this issue on my 2014 VRS diesel also.

 

The dealer (based in north Lancashire) tell me this is normal, and will not install any software update.

 

I am currently awaiting a reply from Skoda UK.....

[Greenliner1]

Please let us know how you get on with SUK, good luck.

[fazed]

Have noticed that after using BP fuel now for a couple of weeks it does seem slightly less often, other thing I have noticed as well is no active regens. When I got the car, always used asda fuel, it was nearly every week, fans on etc. not had any fans in weeks now.....

[joeyrich]

Just heard from SUK today, and they have asked me to book it into a dealer for another opinion. 

 

I'm not confident this will be sorted anytime soon, but I'll post any further updates.

[Mike97]

I have had this a few times on my 2015 vrs and spotted this video last night on youtube could this be our problem?  Not had a look at mine yet to see if i have the older vvt unit or the updated later unit.

 

[fazed]

Thats a great video, shows again that cars are so complicated that the mechanics need to be trained in proper electronic diagnostic techniques. My engine looks very similar but does not have the unit on the end of the cylinder head as on this engine, mine has a black blanking plate, probably to limit performance due to it being a 1.6 and skoda version?

 

My long cranking problem is also much more random and can even happen when hot. The one in the video seems much more predictable. thanks anyways might help someone if there engine has this vat unit.

[Greenliner1]

My 2014 vRS TDI does not have this component either and just has a blank cover. I presume it doesn’t have VVT. The car has just had a major service and has spluttered a couple of times during startup but not yet prolonged cranked compared to its performance prior to service.  The Skoda garage cannot find anything wrong, and no fault codes. SUK must be aware of this but don’t seem to want to address it. Very frustrating! 

 

I also noted the last two times it prolong cranked (4 seconds) was a cold start after a DPF regen, May be a coincidence, we shall see.

 

Unrelated I’ve found the software a bit ‘flakey’ the cruise control used to randomly drop out, that was fixed with an update, also I’ve noticed occasionally when turning the start stop off via the button (light comes on) the car turns it back on a couple of seconds later! Again does this behaviour is a bit random.

Edited 3 November, 2017 by Greenliner1

[barwickkevin]

 i have a skoda octavia 2.0 l dt i4x4 

when start car with key everything went off, 

the only thing is working is emergency flasher and   lights 

                 can any body help

[xman]

10 minutes ago, barwickkevin said:

 i have a skoda octavia 2.0 l dt i4x4 

when start car with key everything went off, 

the only thing is working is emergency flasher and   lights 

                 can any body help

 

Check and charge your battery first

 

[barwickkevin]

BATTERY FINE 12.4 VOLTS 

 

[PetrolDave]

15 minutes ago, barwickkevin said:

BATTERY FINE 12.4 VOLTS 

What voltage when you have the ignition turned on?

 

It sounds like there is some high resistance which means under no-load the voltage may be 12.4V but as soon as you take load the voltage drops.

[barwickkevin]

try jump leads that hasnt worked still dead