Snow Chains or socks

[dg360]

I'm planning to drive to the alps (southern) in February.  I was planning on chucking some winter tyres on at the end of Nov and taking them off at the end of March.  I reckon if I do this each year + my low annual mileage of 8k, I should be able to make these the only other tyres I purchase during my 3 year lease (apart from punctures etc)- which basically makes the cost go away.

 

However, I'm conscious that I'll need some form of chains or socks.  I have 18" Pegasus wheels in an SEL.  I've done some research and it looks like the French approved socks in 2010.

 

My questions are - has anyone tried socks?  Will chains trash the alloys?

 

I know we have some folks on here from places that don't grind to a halt when a single snowflake hits the ground

[peter_k]

Reducing your options - AFAIK Chains on the Superb III are only Skoda approved on 17" 6.5J rims.  I would guess that the width of 6.5J is the critical dimension since the same tyre size is fitted to Skoda 7J rims 

[dg360]

Socks it is!  Thanks Peter.

[Ootohere]

Are you sure you are not only going to have to carry snow chains but also be able to put them on if the roads are snow covered ?

Obviously Snow Socks will be good to have with you as well incase required where snow chains would be a PITA and not on long enough.

http://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/driving-abroad/winter 

 

Edited 21 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[100andthirty]

My last four cars have had wheel/tyre combinations where the manual indicates that snow chains are not to be used. This is because of limited clearance between the tyre and the suspension strut. If you use snow chains that fit entirely from the outside of the wheels, you should be OK. Spikes-Spiders, Thule/Konig K Summit, and Weissenfels all make this sort of chain. Not cheap - £240 - £350 a pair. A benefit is that they are generally much easier to fit than conventional chains once set up.

 

I have Weissenfels Clack and Go Quattro F40 for my SE-L with 235/45/18 tyres. I have trial fitted them, but didn't need to use them on my last expedition. I did use chains and socks at different times on my mk2 during the last severe winter in UK.

[IJWS15]

Went through this with a Passat (Company Car)  with a trip to the Alps in December where we were staying the wrong side of a blue chains sign.

 

I bought a second hand set of Weissenfels Clack and Go. 

 

VW's answer was a second set of wheels with narrower tyres.

 

Weissenfels web-site they fitted the car I had, it also said they could only be used with the manufacturer's approval (see above)

 

Bit the bullet and took a chance, woke up in Pontarlier with 6" overnight ontop of 4 inches that had been there when we arrived.  We were due to drive to Verchaix via Geneva.  Roads in town were being cleared, when we left (chains not fitted) we were OK on the summer tyres and never needed to fit them.  They were fitted and used for 15 feet where we stayed as a practice.  They have not been on since.

 

They were the right size for the Octavia but too small for the Superb  . . . . 

 

I have seen snow below 1000m in the Alps in late May . . . . .  luckily it didn't stay long. 

 

 

 

 

[vfrvrs]

You say you are getting winter tyres, why not get wheels and tyres that are more suitable for the winter conditions? 

A cheap set of steel wheels and winter tyres with the same rolling diameter that suit snow chains would be the answer. The thinner winter tyre would work better in snow and slush on its own.

Plus you can spend plenty of time cleaning your Alloys while watching telly....

 

I have had socks in my boot for several years but never used them, I have only been to the Alps in summer.

Edited 23 October, 2017 by vfrvrs

[superskoda2]

If you put winter tyres on you do not need chains or socks in the French Alps. HTH.

[Howardv]

47 minutes ago, superskoda2 said:

If you put winter tyres on you do not need chains or socks in the French Alps. HTH.

 

Depends if you get a set of "proper" winter tyres or not ;-) Avoid M&S (mud and snow) 

I have never bothered with chains or socks, and have been driving a lot on ice and snow. I'm running  wintertyres in 235/40/19 

Edited 24 October, 2017 by Howardv

[Ootohere]

Norway has it's own laws though and they are not the same as France.

All the passengers in a vehicle in France might never need to put on their hi-viz vest but you still need them in the car.

Tyres and snow chains - regjeringen.no.mhtml

[Howardv]

9 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Norway has it's own laws though and they are not the same as France.

All the passengers in a vehicle in France might never need to put on their hi-viz vest but you still need them in the car.

Tyres and snow chains - regjeringen.no.mhtml

I'm fully aware of that, but we are not talking about laws and regulations...  I'm just giving a comment that if you have a good set of wintertyres, you don't need chains or socks. 

[Ootohere]

I thought the OP / thread was about the Law & Regulations, and anyone asking questions in the thread were asking the same regarding the Law.

http://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/driving-abroad/winter 

(Always check latest updates because AA / RAC type sites are not always current or accurate.)

 

So you need them if it is the law. That is to carry them, then use them if conditions require in some European Countries where that will be sign posted at the time.  Getting to Andorra can be on off, on off, on off.

 

Or you do not need to carry them, do your own thing, rebel without a cause,

you just need the money to pay the fines, then buy the chains before they allow you to get your car back after you can get it out where stuck, which is how you were caught out in the first place..

You also need the time it takes etc when French Police get on the case of non French.

 

In the UK no need in law for Winter or Snow Tyres, Snow Chains or Socks,

and yet some still some carry them, have never ever needed them and never will.

Edited 24 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Howardv]

I have never seen any documentation that its required by law to have chains in the car at all times. But I might be wrong?  

[Ootohere]

LOL, 

No not at all times.  Parked in the garage, high mountain passes in high summer etc.

Likely just in the times / dates between or weather conditions of the country being travelled in if there are Laws / Legislation/ Regulations.

That will almost certainly be European Winter type times for Europe, snow likely times, hilly / mountain type regions. 

 

If you do not look for documentation then you might not find it, or there might be none,

but if there is the local police are likely to know about it.

 

Here is a FAQ regarding 'AUTOSOCKS' use in the French Alps.

http://autosock.co.uk/faqs/#q12 

 

using-autosock-in-france.pdf

Edited 24 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[dg360]

Headinawayoffski has the core issue here.  I'm 90% certain that snow tyres alone will be fine (but it is Feb and I'm going to a small French ski resort - not a biggy like Chamonix, Val d'Isere etc).  I need to carry something as the French Police will stop cars without anything if there is a significant amount of snow.  As others have mentioned, they love to dictate mandatory equipment (Hi-Viz jackets, triangle, bulbs etc) and fine people who don't comply. 

 

In regard to steel wheels - I started off with this approach.  However, I need a minimum of a 16".  Steel wheels in this size are ~£40 each and tyres in the smaller size aren't significantly cheaper.  Also, I'm planning to leave the winters on each winter and I don't really want ugly steels on for 3-4 months of the year (vain I know).  The method in my madness is that (hopefully), by putting half my mileage each year on the winters, I'll not need to replace either before the end of my lease.  My lease is 24k over 3 years.  I will do 50% of my mileage in the winter months each year due to driving to the Alps (~2k round trip).

 

So right now, I think I'll:

Buy 4 winter tyres in Nov

Buy Snow Socks

 

[Howardv]

Ok. Did some research on the subject. Just did some copy paste  So I guess if you want to be on the safe side, and don't want to risk being forced to turn back and buy chains, bring it with you.  

 

Snow chains:

It is not compulsory to carry snow chains on board a vehicle. The use of chains is authorised on all snow-covered roads (Art. R 314-3 of the Highway Code), no matter the period, and is compulsory on those road sections indicated by the B26 road sign “Équipements spéciaux obligatoires”, even for vehicles equipped with studded tires.   - source AFTRI 2016

 

Sign B26 - "snow chains obligatory" 

Usage as per article 60 of the Code de la Route 
Sign B26 should be used "to indicate that vehicles passing the point where it is placed are only permitted to continue with snow chains fitted to at least two driven wheels." 

In addition it is stated, "if vehicles equipped with snow tyres on at least two driven wheels are also permitted to continue driving, then a second, smaller sign will state "Snow tyres allowed". The end of the stretch of road covered by this requirement should be indicated by sign B44 "end of requirement to use snow chains." 


Roads open to winter traffic are more and more accessible without difficulty in vehicles equipped with snow tyres (including spiked), and even ordinary tyres in good condition. 

Snow chains are rarely required because the weather events necessitating them (such as large snowfalls) are more and more often dealt with competently. 

As a result, the B26 sign should only be put in place in exceptional circumstances. 

However, it's clear that this sign sometimes stays in place during prolonged periods, even when the road has become normal again :it's not unusual to see it at the bottom of a Col [mountain crossing] even when the road is completely clear of snow including up to the summit. 

The B44 sign though is rarely used. 

Usage of snow chains in these conditions (if we observe the law) is useless, even dangerous and considerably damaging for our roads. 

Also, such unnecessary usage of the sign can only devalue and discredit the totality of the road sign-age system. 

The requirement to use snow chains has become less then credible with regard to light vehicles [cars], but is still of great importance for heavy vehicles [lorries, coaches etc].

[IJWS15]

If you pass this sign, and there is snow lying, you need chains.  If you are staying below then you don't need them - check for signs on google earth.

 

We were staying above one of these so needed chains even if there was no snow on the road when we arrived, you never know what is going to fall overnight.

 

Not seen it but am told that there are sometimes Gendarmes/Police (The French have 3 police forces) at these points making sure you fit your chains and turning back anyone without them.

[dg360]

This trip is getting close now.  The car is now on cross climates.  The pain and cost of swapping between winter and summer tyres was too much.  

The resort we are going to is only 45 mins from Grenoble (should have put Northern Alps above) where my wife's Aunty lives.  If the French police want to give me grief about cross climates or snow socks, then we'll just head back to Grenoble until the road is cleared or swap into my wife's Aunties car.  Being on French plates with winter tyres and chains means the French police will be far less likely to even give us a second look.  Wheel on wrong side, British plates and a GB sticker may as well be a sign saying "pull me over and hassle me" :(

Just to give everyone a laugh and my OCD levels of over-preparedness this is my emergency equipment list:

Hi Viz jackets - in cabin

Space blankets x 5

Snow Socks

Snow Shovel

Grip mats

Tow rope

First aid kit

Torch

12v Tyre inflator

Jump leads

Warning triangle

Sick bags (barfy child)

Gorilla Tape

 

[MikeHig]

Imho the actions of the French police when the roads get snowy are entirely reasonable. One stuck car can cause enormous traffic hold-ups, especially on the Saturday changeovers. I was out there over Christmas and NY when there were a lot of heavy snowfalls. On the Saturday before NY the whole Albertville - Moutiers - onwards area was logjammed with the journey up from Albertville taking 6-8 hours instead of the usual 45-50 minutes (on clear roads). I have not heard of them fining people but they will certainly turn back cars without proper snow kit.

The pattern of heavy falls seems to be ongoing so it will be good to be prepared. A couple of little suggestions (OCD is a fine habit!):

> Find the little "Alps" symbol on your Cross-Climates and highlight it in some way. That's the official tag that the tyres are suitable for snow. I had them on my car two years ago but a Gendarme looked at the tread pattern and rejected them as snow tyres. In the dusk and snow at the time, I could not find the wretched marks! As it happens, conditions were bad enough that I was quite prepared to put on my chains. They might be better-informed now.

> If you have to park in the open, leave the car with the driven wheels closest to the main track.

> Something to kneel on and a pair of gloves are useful when fitting chains/socks.

Good luck with your trip: skiing conditions are excellent!

[dg360]

Thanks Mike - that's brilliant.  I'm now thinking of getting one of these in yellow - http://tirepenz.co.uk/?product=tire-penz to mark the logo.

I was never disputing that the police actions are completely reasonable btw.  I just don't want to caught out by some poor Gendarme freezing his tetons off, who doesn't want to figure out if my new fangled tyres and socks are ok or not.  If it comes to it - I'll use my standard approach.  Adopt look like deer in headlights and point at the French speaking better half.  I'll prep her on what to say in advance.

 

[Sagalout]

2 hours ago, dg360 said:

The car is now on cross climates. 

With apologies for cutting across the thread. How are the crossclimates for noise etc compared to what you had on before?

[Prykey]

If you are going to Grenoble have you got your Crit Air certificate?

 

This link tells you about it https://www.crit-air.fr/en.html

 

[dg360]

Thanks Prykey - already got that one  VWFS pointed me in the right direction and provided a copy of my log book.

[dg360]

20 hours ago, Sagalout said:

With apologies for cutting across the thread. How are the crossclimates for noise etc compared to what you had on before?

Very similar level of noise to the Pirellis it came with in my view.  I'm not the most sensitive to noise - I generally have the radio on.

[The Wanderer]

I've lived in the Haute Savoie region of France (not far from Grenoble) for the past five years. I haven't been stopped once by the police for chains, bulbs or breathalysers. Perhaps I've just been lucky but in our area - between Geneva and Annecy - transport police are pretty low profile. I can only recall a handful of times when I've seen them doing speed checks.

 

As for snow chains the small town I live close to has a sign for chains at the bottom of the main road out, which ascends a steep hill. I've never had to use them and have not seen anyone else using them. Generally speaking if it does snow - which it hasn't much since we've been here - the roads are cleared quickly removing any need for chains. On the occasions I've visited ski resorts I've not been stopped either - though there were roads in Chamonix where they were not allowing cars without winter tyres to enter.

 

Unless there's a big change in the weather - it's very mild now, as high as 12c - I very much doubt you'll have any problems dg360. We did have a day when it snowed heavily recently at the weekend and the road wasn't cleared. Our Superb which has just had Cross Climates mounted coped very well on a road covered in fresh snow, when others were clearly having problems. I'm very pleased with these tyres.

 

Re. the noise from the Cross Climates, Sagalout, I agree they seem much the same as the ones the car came with - Pirellis I think. They're certainly much better than the Vector 4seasons we had on our Yeti - though I guess that might be down to better insulation on the Superb.