Scary Sudden Steering Jerks

[RicardoM]

This is a scary one. Mysterious too. I need your advice.

 

So I've got my Felicia shipped to Canada where I am working for now. A week ago I did some overdue maintenance & minor repairs on it as follows:

• replaced plastic (teflon?) bush (part 3 in attached illustration)
• replaced  both steering rubber boots (cleaned old grease, washed with diesel, put new grease)
• replace outer right CV boot (cleaned old grease, washed with diesel, put new grease)
• installed new all-season tires on new alloy wheels (Goodyear vector 4 seasons gen 2 185/60/R14 on 6J wheels)
• done 4 wheels geometry by laser in a professional garage

 

My Felicia has no power steering. The car drives perfectly straight, no noises, no rubbing, easy steering.

 

Yesterday I had to make a 300 km trip (150 km forth, 150 km back). Weather was rainy. After roughly 100 km, while driving straight on the highway at 90-110 km/h, the steering wheel started to have random, very short jerks to the left by itself. Very short (maybe 0.1 seconds a few degrees) steering to the left, then immediately back to straight. Sometimes 2 jerks in a row, sometimes only one, distanced randomly between 10 seconds to 3 minutes. Needless to say it was a scary feeling. I continued my trip at much lower speed. After I arrived at destination, I jacked the front of the car and inspected the wheels for any play, studs not torqued, loose joints, etc. Nothing wrong found. All was solid.

 

Today I returned home. Weather was sunny. I drove slowly then faster and faster. Nothing happened. No more steering wheel jerks at any speed.

 

So there it is. Any advice?

[jetbubble]

You say that it was raining when the jerking hapenned, was it at night? If so  could it be stones, wood or debris, on the highway causing the problem, you may not have noticed anything due to water on the road

[RicardoM]

The trip was during the day. No debris, flat asphalt. The jerking was only to the left each time. The scary thing was that you don't expect at high speed the steering wheel to twitch/jerk laterally, even when hitting a small debris, crack or a bump. The movement should be damped up & down. As I've said, never felt that self movement of the steering wheel in my life.

 

By searching on Google, on other cars the culprit was either a bad wheel bearing, bad CV axle or bad steering box. In my case, never had problems with any of them. The only thing that is bugging me is the plastic bush that I've changed. Being new, it slided tight on the steering rack at installation time. Today I've made short trips in the city and I've heard muffled groans from the steering box area when steering to either side. It's like there is no lubrication between the plastic bush and the steering rack. I'm scratching my head what influence could have had the tight fit of the bush on the jerking movement...

[mikefelicia]

How many miles has the car on the clock, why did you change the bush ? has there been any other work on the rack.

 

Ok we all like to think we know our car and you are no exception from what you have said on this forum with help to others, here in the UK we have a MOT every year and boy do they find things, do you have your car tested yeary ?

[RicardoM]

My car has 124,000 km. I changed the bush because there was a clunking noise when stationary and moving the steering wheel rapidly left<->right. New track rods didn't cure the noise. New tie rod ends didn't cure it either. The noise went away after I changed that bush. No other work on the rack.

 

We have a MOT every 2 years. Don't be fooled by the bigger test interval. I take very good care of my car. I passed all their tests. I admit the MOT might not be so extended like in the UK but when it comes to steering, brakes, suspension, wheels, and emissions... boy they are tight...

[Rustynuts]

Had an Astra van once which did this. It was the cv joint starting to seize.

[KenONeill]

@RicardoM - Well, on seeing your post title my immediate thought was of the car "falling into" ruts left by heavy trucks (this tends to be more a factor of the car's track relative to the ruts than anything else). These are usually visible though, so if you say there weren't any then that's accepted and I think @Rustynuts is probably correct that you've got a seizing CV joint.

[RicardoM]

2 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

Had an Astra van once which did this. It was the cv joint starting to seize.

Did you find evidence for that? How? And why did it start to seize?

 

Is it correct to assume that for the steering to jerk to the left, it is the left CV joint faulty? Or could be the right one and the reaction of the steering to bring the wheels back on track is what I felt?

 

@KenONeillNo ruts for sure. No heavy trucks are allowed on that highway.

[Rustynuts]

I removed the driveshaft and found the joint was sticking when rotated off centre. Old age perhaps, or lack of maintenance before I got the van. Yes, it was the left hand side joint with a left turn kick.

 

I've also had it more recently on a Renault Kangoo, but on the right hand side. This has a longer driveshaft with a central joint and this was failing.

[RicardoM]

18 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

I removed the driveshaft and found the joint was sticking when rotated off centre. Old age perhaps, or lack of maintenance before I got the van.

The boot was intact ? The joint had enough grease ?

[Rustynuts]

Yes and yes. But what does that prove other than maybe someone repacked the joint and fitted a new boot at some point. Conversely, the Renault Kangoo one was under manufacturers warranty so I would presume it was original.

[RicardoM]

How about an (almost) seized lower ball joint? Is there any possibility to produce my symptoms ?

[RicardoM]

I've decided to replace both lower ball joints to be on the safe side. They're cheap too (12 USD for both).

 

Next I will inspect both CV joints. 

[mikefelicia]

Do let us know if the fitting of the ball joints solved the problem or what else.

 

I was thinking your Felicia has done 124,000 km (77,000 miles) my Felicia with power steering has just turned 87.000 miles (i purchased new) and only the track rod ends and all the front and rear dampers and springs have been changed I wonder if the power steering lasts longer than the none PS. 

Edited 2 November, 2017 by mikefelicia

[RicardoM]

1 hour ago, mikefelicia said:

Do let us know if the fitting of the ball joints solved the problem or what else.

I will.

1 hour ago, mikefelicia said:

...my Felicia with power steering has just turned 87.000 miles (i purchased new) and only the track rod ends and all the front and rear dampers and springs have been changed.

You mean that you have never changed any rubber bushes / lower ball joints ?? Let me doubt that.

[mikefelicia]

You can doubt all you like I know what I have changed and like I say I have had this car from new, and what a great car it is, I got a garage to change all the dampers and springs not because the old ones were worn out just wanted a better ride.

It has just passed it's MOT with no problems noted, and has never in 18 years (coming up to 19 in Dec) failed a MOT I have had advisery notes with the MOTs over the years but nothing realy bad just leaking exhaust slight wheel rear bearing out, bulb blown just minor stuff, but I must admit I am expecting something any year to pop up like you keep saying they are great cars mine must have been built properly. 

[mikefelicia]

Not wishing to highjack your post here is a pic of my car at the Skoda gathering this year at Cosford car is STD apart from the wheels and tyres wheels came from my next door nighbour £40 all four + tyres.

[RicardoM]

I have to admit, your car is a peach. How old are you, Mike ? What is your driving style? How good are the roads you drive on a daily basis?

 

Today I went on highway again up to 130 km/h. The car drives straight like a train on tracks. So far so good.

[mikefelicia]

I should not be giving out my details like this on the net but at my age 73 I could not give a dam, I purchased the car when I was 54 (note the reg number) I was working at the time and every one said what do you want a bloody Skoda for well im having the last laugh I am retired now and use the car for mainly short journeys with the odd 60 mile round trip I do not go much above 60 - 70 MPH the fastest I have taken the car is around 80 MPH.

I have been into motorcycles all my life and have restored around some 10 bikes mainly old what they call classic now, I have only 2 in my garage now both 1964 a Honda CB77 and a Triumph 5TA that I have had for 43 years, cars are not my thing over the years I have had many M/C from Moto Guzzi Le Mans MK1 to 1937 T80 (3 off) and so many more.

 

I like the Skoda I purchased it because it had a pushrod engine not OHC my policy is to not over rev the engine when it is cold and I change the eng oil every 2,000 miles and try to use only genuine Skoda parts like oil filters air ect, my style of driving is steady never had a bump in my car and only came off my  M/C some 5 times in my life mainly when I was much younger.

 

I not want for any car or bike now or lust after any, my Skoda do's all I want.

 

Ho the roads well we have our pot holes like most do but they are very good in the UK where I live (now I bet someone will say they are not)

 

Well that's it from this old boy for now. Hope sort your car out RicardoM if anyone can you can.

[RicardoM]

Very interesting info, Mike. Now I remember you asked some while ago about changing the rear dampers. What can I say? You have confirmed my suspicions. Only somebody who loves his car, has a young soul, and restored classic vehicles can still pass the MOT with original parts eyes closed. Talking about love for Felicia, I must look mad because I shipped my car on boat from the Dominican Republic to Canada where I'm working now. Well, my employer was kind enough to pay for the shipping 

 

Now back on topic. I've found the left lower ball joint was worn and seized from corrosion. Apparently from the outside it had no play being seized. My hypothesis is that the ball joint got free randomly, steering the wheels to the left a bit then the gyroscopic effect of wheels brought quickly the steering back to straight forward locking the ball joint again. Why that happened only when raining, I have no idea.

[mikefelicia]

Here we go again, you see I come from a era when if you had something like a pushbike or toy you made it last and 9 times out of 10 it could be repaired unlike today the great throwaway just think about what we throw razors, nappies, ballpoint pens, TVs, washing machines, when it fails we throw it me too the list is endless we cannot continue like this I have seen so much happen to this world in my very short time from empty roads and today here in the UK people are going round in big cars and M/C that will do 150 + mph WHY the national speed limit is 70 and in built up areas 30 (30 MPH introduced in the 1930s here in the UK) 

 

One thing that gets up my nose is when you see a Skoda Felicia for sale it nearly always says suit first time driver or as a runaround like ho well it will do until you get a BMW or Merc, and then one man will use a ton of steel to get from one point to the next and use a lot of fuel doing it, mom or dad takes the kids to school in a big 4x4 BMW or what ever.

 

Well me I drive a Skoda Felicia and you just do not see them around here and most times the parts on Ebay are cheap seems no one wants them, in my garage I have a complete exhaust system (minus cat) for my car genuine Skoda purchased from Ebay at a silly low price back box aloan was £15 inc p/p and a few other items genuine Skoda some sellers a glad to get rid of the parts try making them a silly offer it has worked for me lots of times remember the old cars no one wanted and folk are paying silly prices I can remember a time when if you wanted to get rid of a M/C you would bery it leave it in a hedge or just throw it in the canal my Triumph I purchased for £40 now it's worth some £5.000 or more perhaps my Skoda's second hand value will go up by the time I have finished with it. 

 

One last thing my Radio I listen to is a Rotel RX602 tuner amp I purchased in 1974 and it has been repaired twice and still works so well.

 

I must stop I am talking like sad old man again glad the wife do's not read this. 

 

Sorry RicardoM for highjacking you posting.

THE END.  

[S00perb]

Mike - I am with you on the throw away culture.

I have 3 M/Cs and a trike in the garage. Spares for them for the next 30 years or so, picked up for next to nothing. Hardly any of the bikes have original parts left, all done over 150k but they will run forever. I don't think a motor bought in the last 10 years will be about in 20 years - too many components no one will understand.

[RicardoM]

10 hours ago, mikefelicia said:

Sorry RicardoM for highjacking you posting.

No worries. I don't mind chatting between on topic posts.

10 hours ago, mikefelicia said:

I come from a era when if you had something like a pushbike or toy you made it last and 9 times out of 10 it could be repaired unlike today the great throwaway just think about what we throw razors, nappies, ballpoint pens, TVs, washing machines, when it fails we throw it me too the list is endless we cannot continue like this

 

I'm with you 100%. The economy of rich countries is driven by WASTE. In poor countries people do wonders to repair stuff (India is emblematic on this). Only harsh lessons will make people from rich countries reconsider their attitude towards waste. In your case I think Brexit is a good start.

[faker]

Ricardo i had a similar issue, but I've no idea if it's related. You state you fitted 14" rims and 185/60/14 tyres. I've experienced the same symptoms, and not only on a felicia. Are the rims genuine skoda? Have they the correct offset? Are they deep dishes? Wheels with a bigger footprint with the road, especially with a smaller offset, can be susceptible to tramlining or become over sensitive to minor imperfections with the road surface. May not have anything to do with your problem. Just thought I'd share. 

[RicardoM]

The rims are not genuine Skoda. They are RIAL Le Mans. Their offset is 36 mm against 38 mm original Skoda. They are slightly wider (6J vs 5.5J Skoda). The tires are slightly wider too (185 mm vs 175 mm Skoda). I gathered knowledge about rims, tires and steering for 2 weeks before buying them. I'm not for "the wider the better" when it comes to wheels. Tramlining was not the issue driving on highway. The highway itself is almost brand new, super flat, no bumps, no cracks, no ruts. The car didn't drift to the left like when catching a track. It was a very short (0.2 seconds) twitch (bam!-bam!) to the left (5-10 degrees max) then back to straight. I drove yesterday on the same highway for an hour and a half. The only difference was the rain. It was raining the day I had random steering issues driving straight.