Stop Start and DSG

[Ootohere]

Only rolling if you do not brake.

 

Crossings, halts etc are you not ready to brake?

Edited 31 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[vfrvrs]

I have written to Skoda to complain after my dealer tried to fix it with an update. I will report back if they reply.

Can I also suggest that all who are not satisfied also write to them with their concerns.

[mr.nik]

I was very happy with Stop-Start on my vRS...  like many things, it was a case of learning to work in harmony/sympathy with the vehicle.  Feathering the brake pedal to control when it activated was easy to learn. Turning it off manually when approaching a junction onto a busy road, or indeed when raiding a bank and needing a quick getaway, was also easy to learn.  

The intended savings are not just CO2 and MPG, but NOX etc. particular when driving in urban areas and sat at lights etc. As I'm also a recipient of that benefit, i'm generally in favour of it. 

As far as the Superb goes (Petrol DSG), 2 weeks/1000 miles in and I can't say I've had any issues per se (getting used to the auto-brake is proving harder), but nor have I learned to work in sympathy with it yet - though I have noticed it does seem more trigger-happy than the octy

[nicklouse]

I had a play with S/S on my way home from work - couple of opinions follow

1)  I found when braking to a stop from significant speed, yes it does cut out at 1 or 2mph.  But my foot is already on the brake, and I'm not turning at a significant angle so lack of power steering is unimportant.  Also, on my manual 2014 320d, if I had the car in neutral whilst moving (for instance rolling down hill in stop start traffic) it would also cut out before coming to a complete stop.

2) In crawling traffic, engine would not cut out until at a standstill.

3) Turning off auto hold improves the behaviour - in the sense that releasing the brake causes engine to start, so you get immediate power from accelerating.

 

For those that complain the delay when pulling away is dangerous - (controversial comment follows...) perhaps if that gap is that tight then you shouldn't be pulling out anyway   P.s. I realise it's not always that clear cut, but it's worth thinking about!

[DBT85]

44 minutes ago, nicklouse said:

For those that complain the delay when pulling away is dangerous - (controversial comment follows...) perhaps if that gap is that tight then you shouldn't be pulling out anyway   P.s. I realise it's not always that clear cut, but it's worth thinking about!

 

To be fair, a car doing 30mph is covering 13.5m a second. That's very nearly 3 superb lengths in just 1 second. The gap might not be tight at all but might quickly become so if you're delayed departing, perhaps more so if you're expecting to move and give it more boot and spin the wheels a bit.

 

Thus far I've had stop/start for all of 500 miles and its not caused me any issues yet, but most of that is on the motorway where its not exactly used much (except the M25). I guess just like driving a DSG, it just takes some adapting.

 

So far Lane Assist has been the wierdest thing to get used to. My car wanting to steer for me at motorway speeds is an odd sensation.

Edited 1 February, 2018 by DBT85

[nicklouse]

1 hour ago, DBT85 said:

 

To be fair, a car doing 30mph is covering 13.5m a second. That's very nearly 3 superb lengths in just 1 second. The gap might not be tight at all but might quickly become so if you're delayed departing, perhaps more so if you're expecting to move and give it more boot and spin the wheels a bit.

 

Thus far I've had stop/start for all of 500 miles and its not caused me any issues yet, but most of that is on the motorway where its not exactly used much (except the M25). I guess just like driving a DSG, it just takes some adapting.

 

So far Lane Assist has been the wierdest thing to get used to. My car wanting to steer for me at motorway speeds is an odd sensation.

 

Yeah but that's kinda the point....  If you've got a gap of 25m on a 30mph that's really not enough space to get out, regardless of DGS / stop start / car make etc as that would be the highway code definition of safe distance...  I would argue that it wouldn't be safe to pull out anyway as you are likely to make the car you're out in front of have to brake...  The 2.0 TSI is quoted at a 0-30mph of 3.8s but you've only got a 2s gap to pull out into...

 

FWIW I'm not disagreeing that the delay for engine to fire up and car get going isn't great, but if auto hold is on then car doesn't know you want to go till the loud pedal gets pushed and it takes a moment for the engine to fire up... with a combustion engine I don't see any way around that?  I simply account for that when pulling off, or turn off start stop or auto hold to get quicker response.  I'd say the car (in my limited mileage so far) behaves consistently, so it's not like it's a surprise or anything when it does it.

 

+1 on the lane assist, really weird to have the car fight you but I love it on the commute in crawling traffic!

Edited 1 February, 2018 by nicklouse

[DBT85]

22 minutes ago, nicklouse said:

 

Yeah but that's kinda the point....  If you've got a gap of 25m on a 30mph that's really not enough space to get out, regardless of DGS / stop start / car make etc as that would be the highway code definition of safe distance...  I would argue that it wouldn't be safe to pull out anyway as you are likely to make the car you're out in front of have to brake...  The 2.0 TSI is quoted at a 0-30mph of 3.8s but you've only got a 2s gap to pull out into...

 

FWIW I'm not disagreeing that the delay for engine to fire up and car get going isn't great, but if auto hold is on then car doesn't know you want to go till the loud pedal gets pushed and it takes a moment for the engine to fire up... with a combustion engine I don't see any way around that?  I simply account for that when pulling off, or turn off start stop or auto hold to get quicker response.  I'd say the car (in my limited mileage so far) behaves consistently, so it's not like it's a surprise or anything when it does it.

 

+1 on the lane assist, really weird to have the car fight you but I love it on the commute in crawling traffic!

 

Oh absolutely 25m isn't a safe distance. What I'm saying is, it could be 75m and suddenly with a bit of a delay and tyre scrabble you pull out and the bloke up your chuff is a lot closer than they maybe needed to be were it not for that initial delay. 

 

As I said, when I got my first DSG in my Octavia 6 years ago it took some getting used to quite simply because of that slight delay sometimes. Often back then I'd hear manual drivers claiming we were all going to die at roundabouts because of it. It just takes some getting used to and perhaps some adjustment. I don't see it really as any more adjustment than me jumping in my S2000 or my wifes 1.8T Beetle. Different cars drive differently. With DSG and Stop Start there will be a minor adjustment to be made. Thus far I've already started taking my foot off the break a few seconds before I feel I need to set off just to get it fired up again. I've only had to roll slowly up to one roundabout so far so I've not had the chance to work out how I'll deal with it, but deal with it I shall. The system will get a far more vigerous workout when I'm driving across London while down working I've no doubt.

[MChris]

I found that the S/S can make a significant difference when pulling out of a side road or joining a roundabout.  The difference being without S/S activated my 190bhp DSG Superb quickly joins the traffic without any issues.  With S/S activated you often end up being "flashed" at by annoyed/frightened drivers.  The time it takes to activate the engine restart is too long IMHO.  But more importantly, what about the increased wear to the starter motor?   This doesn't appear to have been touched on in this thread/post.  Someone once told me that the restart doesn't use the starter motor but not being that technically minded I cannot understand that - if it is true.  As for me I try to always disable this so called "green" function every time I start the engine but do occasionally forget, much to my surprise when my engine takes an unexpected rest just when I need it!

[xman]

I did mention wear and tear earlier on but got the usual ridicule and put down by one of our scottish members.

 

Here are two views on the wear and tear issues.

 

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/stop-start-long-term-impact-your-car-s-engine

[Ootohere]

Yes put down, seeing as things move on, and there are cars / taxis and vans, light commercials that will do thousands and thousands of miles driving in towns and cities & between them, doing deliveries, picking up fares, working, 

being switched off, stopped with the key,  and started, VW Caddy / Transporters, Octavia etc etc and is there a Wear & Tear issue on Starter Motors on these 

vehicles doing 20,000- 40,000 plus miles a year?

Will some private user doing 10,000 miles driving with 'Stop / Start',  by stopping and starting on one of their trips as much as some vehicles that are running near 24 hours a day year round but not sitting running each time it is parked / stopped ?

Edited 3 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[xman]

mr know it all

 

Edited 3 February, 2018 by xman

[Ootohere]

Head for thinking, feet for dancing and posting for discussion, but some think it is just to take the pith.  ae what!

[Sagalout]

Handbags away lads 

 

Of course there is wear and tear on any component; point is that components are designed and systems built to a purpose and have an expected life span. Modern stop/start systems are designed as such and  are totally different to the good old starter motor/alternator/basic lead flood battery. Then there is the advance in engine oil technology which is mentioned way down the page in the Autocar article. 

 

Not using the system due to concerns about premature wear suggest a lack of understanding of the design and operating parameters. I do accept that it is relatively early days for the technology and there is always the possibility of lifetime failure rates being higher than anticipated but really??????

 

Having said all that I dont like it and always switch it off. In the diesel because any diesel engine starting is noisy and vibrates thru the car; in the petrol because I do notice that momentary lag. It is not critical mostly as it is almost immeasurable but I feel it every time. I could modify my style but that is not easy after a lifetime of driving is it? Plus I am not convinced of the overall benefit to most driving other than in city centres or heavily congested routes.   I would have preferred the default position to be 'off' so that the driver would have to choose to switch it on each time.

 

As an aside. SWMBO has a Volvo and in that system you have to keep your foot on the brake to maintain the stop phase. That I find much worse than anything mentioned on here but there is no perceptible lag. In fact I think it starts phase as you are release the pressure on the brake rather than pressure on the accelerator.  

[DBT85]

A few days of driving around London and I'm happy to report I've sussed my Stop/Start with no real issues. 

 

With AutoHold on the car just sits there waiting for me to look at the throttle, so in regular traffic I just breathe on it when the cars in front start to move and by the time the dullard in front of me has actually moved I'm good to go.

 

In slow moving stuff at roundabouts and junctions where I don't want it to do anything, a light pressure on the wheel seems to stop it suffering its narcolepsy. 

[Bud]

@DBT85 Also had the opportunity to try it out for an extended period in stop start traffic and found that by judicious use of the brakes you can get auto hold to catch but leave the engine running.  If you press the brake pedal hard enough it will cut but if you only feather it the engine will still run.  

 

Tried it in various states with SS on and off and different pressures, didn't alter any of the driving modes though, engine was warm and electrical demand was low so do not think that was affecting the response.

 

Also tried turning the steering wheel once it had cutout and noted that it always restarted when there was a steering demand.

 

So although i feel i understand how and when it works much better I am still not convinced I like it and will continue to turn it off.

 

Might try it on motorway with ACC and TJA, if i get the chance, to see how the hands free state affects operation.

 

[BriskodaJeff]

4 hours ago, Bud said:

 

Might try it on motorway with ACC and TJA, if i get the chance, to see how the hands free state affects operation.

 

 

I did this Bud. It works fine, but still not reason enough for me to keep it enabled. (TJA on the other hand is just about the best feature on the car IMHO).

 

4 hours ago, Bud said:

 

I am still not convinced I like it and will continue to turn it off.

 

That's exactly how I feel.

[facet edge]

I think you were just lucky Bud. Mine cuts out whilst it is still moving at the bottom of my drive and I have also had it stop when I am moving slowly at a roundabout. This happens when my foot is nowhere near the brake.

[CzechSkoda]

Just got my DSG Superb and it cuts out far too soon and I've also noticed it stops when you are still moving slowly. I'll no doubt get used to it but the button may get pressed.