As an aside I had an issue with start-up rattle on a Fiat 127 after a service. Turned out it was caused by a cheap 'pattern' oil filter which didn't contain a non-return valve as the Fiat version did: the non-return valve kept oil high up so that oil was available at the camshaft and hydraulic tappets at start-up. Swapped for manufacturer's part and all was well.

I don't know if such valves exist in VW family oil filters but if they do maybe yours is a bit leaky.

Just a thought.

Silver VW / Audi filters were a change from the Black filters before, and the non drip was about the oil not coming out as you removed a filter to replace it.

I liked to use Mahle filters for £4 instead of the VW OEM ones, just because sometimes VW OEM stuff is crap and not better because more expensive.

20 hours ago, Offski said:

Funnily coming to 1.0TSI near you soon and already in 1.5TSI's globally and that includes the UK.

Yes, but not in the 1.2TSI. It's fine in the 1.0litre.

 

 

The testing we did on after market oil filters produced a mixed bag of results with many not even coming close to OEM performance. Oil pressure was frequently reduced over what you would get with OEM. Actual oil filtration sometimes not as good either as OEM. That's why manufacturers get jittery about folks not using OEM stuff. 

OEM parts are manufactured for the manufacturers of the cars, VW Group do not make Oil filters, just spec the ones manufactured for them. 

Like OME tyres, wiper blades, oil, water pumps, washer fluid, brake fluid, brake parts, exhausts and much much else.

 

VW should get jittery when they source crap Water Pumps, DSG Clutch Packs, Software, chains, tensioners and much else.

Also when they recommend oils, service regimes and then there are failings of engines that turn out to be lemons.

Edited 21 May, 20188 yr by Offski

Yes, we all know Offski. Not sure what distorted point you are trying to make as usual! But, as you say, the manufacturer...in this case VW, specs the filters to very exacting standards, standards not always fully known and/or adhered to by aftermarket suppliers. Just look at the many independent tests carried out on aftermarket filters to see how bad some can be. Some can be comparable but it's a lottery if you don't do your research. I'll give you a clue though, the cheaper the filter the more rubbish it's construction and performance. As Google king I'll leave you to look it up.

 

Edit: someone asked if there was an anti-drainback in the OEM filters. Yes there is! Not all filters from some of the cheaper aftermarket brands have them.

Edited 21 May, 20188 yr by Estate Man

No need to google it, heard it enough from the days before the internet and since.

Also seen the issues with Main Dealers fitting OEM filters and the engines with oil issues and starvation, and the oil pressures.

After VW / Skoda changed to the Silver filters there was a reason that Twinchargers were not always getting Silver Filters fitted even by Factory Trained VW Technicians.   Others did fit the new filters or the changed spark plugs they introduced, regardless of the issues engines were having.  Vorsprung Durch Technik., or not.

Ask those contacts you have, all those VW Techs. 

Edited 21 May, 20188 yr by Offski

Don't need to me old fruit! Way ahead of you....and you do like to stretch and somewhat distort a point. 

Edited 21 May, 20188 yr by Estate Man

Offski, i noted your comment regarding the Asda oil, to be honest I didn't even know that they sell their own brand of engine oil. It's probably produced for them by the big oil giant anyway. Just noted on their website that 5w40 which is on offer for £14 for a 5L and it states that Meets or exceeds the requirements of the following specifications: API SN/CF, ACEA C3, MB229.31/229.51, BMW LL-04, VW502.00/505.01 PORSCHE A40, FORD WSS-M2C917.

 

Would this be fine for a 1.2tsi Fabia of mine on fixed service then, which will get changed from variable due to my low milage and currently uses long life 5w30 507.00.

 

Many thanks 

Estateman,   just not such a fanboy of OEM consumables as you, so no distortion.

I drive lots of miles, have done for decades, had lots of tuned engines and buy good oil filters and other filters when i own vehicles, 

Check filters and oils.

49 minutes ago, EdHru said:

Offski, i noted your comment regarding the Asda oil, to be honest I didn't even know that they sell their own brand of engine oil. It's probably produced for them by the big oil giant anyway. Just noted on their website that 5w40 which is on offer for £14 for a 5L and it states that Meets or exceeds the requirements of the following specifications: API SN/CF, ACEA C3, MB229.31/229.51, BMW LL-04, VW502.00/505.01 PORSCHE A40, FORD WSS-M2C917.

 

Would this be fine for a 1.2tsi Fabia of mine on fixed service then, which will get changed from variable due to my low milage and currently uses long life 5w30 507.00.

 

Many thanks 

 

Just check that it's FULLY SYNTHETIC OIL, and not semi-synthetic as you can often find it in both oil types. Semi goes out of spec much more quickly than fully syn. Check your owners manual under topping up your oil where it tells you what spec to use. This is on page 153. It says to use VW502 on fixed service intervals.

Edited 21 May, 20188 yr by Estate Man

They have 2 and 4 litres of VW 504 if you want Long Life oil & VW 502 in Full Synthetic at good enough prices usually, 

and then some days they must be having to undercut Tesco, Morrison, Sainsbury etc and there are very good price drops, 

so anytime i am in shopping i pass the oil and if much cheapness buy up a selection.

 

Cheaper than at Motor Factors and as good as the COMMA Premium oil i used to buy, but then that is maybe not a coincidence.

 

ASDA or Tesco.

Edited 22 May, 20188 yr by Offski

The rattle is normal at start up on my 1.2 tsi. For the first 2 services the dealer used Shell Helix Ultra 0-30W long life oil. Dealer changed hands and now Castrol Edge Professional LL was used last week. I hear and feel no difference between the two oils. My car is on flexible servicing and I only do 5k miles per year. Even though it is programmed for longlife mileage and days the ECU works out the optimum servicing time and I have never reached the maximum 2 years or 700 approx days. The short runs and cold starts shortens the flexible servicing period. 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes 

15 hours ago, Offski said:

They have 2 and 4 litres of VW 504 if you want Long Life oil & VW 502 in Full Synthetic at good enough prices usually, 

and then some days they must be having to undercut Tesco, Morrison, Sainsbury etc and there are very good price drops, 

so anytime i am in shopping i pass the oil and if much cheapness buy up a selection.

 

Cheaper than at Motor Factors and as good as the COMMA Premium oil i used to buy, but then that is maybe not a coincidence.

 

ASDA or Tesco.

Thanks for your reply. So do you think that supermarket oils are safe to use /equally as good as the premium brands like Shell, Castrol etc. To use in my Fabia. Is there any harm using a long life 507.00 for 12 months fixed servicing instead of flexi service, bit confused as I keep hearing that dealers still use longlife oil on fixed servicing. 

 

Just out of interest who makes supermarket oils?

 

Many thanks 

You certainly hope there is no harm in the Long Life oils VW the 2nd Biggest Car Manufacturer in the world recommends.

When would they ever have anything but the customers best interest at heart.....  Honesty being their byword.

 

Do you think Wallmart / ASDA are going to sell utter rubbish? 

 

Oil Producers make Supermarket Oil, not baked bean manufacturers.

Like Fuel Producers produce / supply fuels for Super Market Filling Stations and others.

http://greenergy.com/uk/independent 

 

Not sure what is 'Premium' about Castrol or Shell, or Quantum that VW Group Main Dealers might be using for your VW 504 / 507 oil changes.

You decide yourself if Castrol, Shell, Mobile, Total, Fuchs is what you want.

Personally if i was buying Manufacturers Recommended Oil it would be Japanese Car Manufacturers Oils i would buy, seeing as the have the more reliable longer lasting engines...

Edited 22 May, 20188 yr by Offski

That's you told! 

21 hours ago, Offski said:

No need to google it, heard it enough from the days before the internet and since.

Also seen the issues with Main Dealers fitting OEM filters and the engines with oil issues and starvation, and the oil pressures.

After VW / Skoda changed to the Silver filters there was a reason that Twinchargers were not always getting Silver Filters fitted even by Factory Trained VW Technicians.   Others did fit the new filters or the changed spark plugs they introduced, regardless of the issues engines were having.  Vorsprung Durch Technik., or not.

Ask those contacts you have, all those VW Techs. 

I'm a bit nonplussed. Is there an issue with the silver filters?

Well, better to use Mobil oil than Mobile maybe.  Anyway, I think what happened was, with the 1.2TSI 8V engine, VW Group used black oil filters which were supplied by Mahle, either when the later 1.2TSI 16V engines appeared, or a bit later VW Group changed suppliers to Mann and that was when the silver oil filters appeared, why they changed suppliers I can't correctly say.

The main reason supermarket oils are cheaper is due to...1: it's a cheap oil containing the bare minimum of additives to allow it to meet the lowest/minimum specification laid down by the world's SAE & JASO organisations. It also uses lower quality detergents in many brands over what the more expensive oils frequently use. 2: it often contains more recycled oil which is cheaper to produce and put back in the market place. 3: Supermarkets buy in bulk even though they actually don't sell that much of it. Make no mistake, it's good oil but if you use it be sure to adhere to oil change intervals religiously as it can go out of spec early compared to bigger more expensive  branded oils. Around 8 years ago the company I worked for tested almost every oil on the market in the UK in the lab and in our engines. Quite a difference in the way they performed and how much engine wear took place with some brands. Mostly, the more expensive brands were head and shoulders better than the cheap oils. You actually get what you pay for. By the way, VW's Quantum brand was very near the top of the best performing brands even though it's not that expensive.

6 hours ago, Estate Man said:

The main reason supermarket oils are cheaper is due to...1: it's a cheap oil containing the bare minimum of additives to allow it to meet the lowest/minimum specification laid down by the world's SAE & JASO organisations. It also uses lower quality detergents in many brands over what the more expensive oils frequently use. 2: it often contains more recycled oil which is cheaper to produce and put back in the market place. 3: Supermarkets buy in bulk even though they actually don't sell that much of it. Make no mistake, it's good oil but if you use it be sure to adhere to oil change intervals religiously as it can go out of spec early compared to bigger more expensive  branded oils. Around 8 years ago the company I worked for tested almost every oil on the market in the UK in the lab and in our engines. Quite a difference in the way they performed and how much engine wear took place with some brands. Mostly, the more expensive brands were head and shoulders better than the cheap oils. You actually get what you pay for. By the way, VW's Quantum brand was very near the top of the best performing brands even though it's not that expensive.

Good post.

It is a great post.

Estate Man has been at the stripping down of engines as well and at motor shows or something with the company.

?

Which company was it Estate Man, 

and what came out as the top oil and which was 2nd and 3rd from their test results?

Or is there confidentiality and the testing was only for their company to know and no results published for the likes of Motoring Journals.

 

Do change oil regularly, by the Manufacturers Schedules, Fixed or Variable, and that will be if Castrol / Quantum or any other oils, 

Premium Brand like Castrol at full RRP or costing much less at discount supermarkets like from B&M / Home Bargains. (not sure how much or little they sell, but look at the Car section, Castrol is sometimes there at 'Much Cheapness' as is Shell Oil, check for the correct spec obviously.

 Same Castrol oil as in the other Retailers from the same factory, just not with the same mark up.

1 litre bought for half the price the Main Dealer shows on the Invoice, £11.50 a litre or so then VAT on top.

Dealership / Motor Group Servicing oil, bought in bulk and charged at prices as though it comes in containers that customers buy and a big mark up charge.

 

 

Edited 23 May, 20188 yr by Offski

Quote from Offski's posting:- " Dealership / Motor Group Servicing oil, bought in bulk and charged at prices as though it comes in containers that customers buy and a big mark up charge."  - GREEDY GREEDY GREEDY B#ST#RDS, that is one thing is not defensible!

 

When a few of us at work ran new or newish Fords, the plan was always to drive along to the dealer, book the car in for a service and advising them that the "correct" oil was in the boot, then walk across to the parts department and buy a gallon of the oil that the handbook said you had to use, place it in the boot - then get to work before the end of lunch break. On the appointed day take the car in, car got official service with a stamp, cost peanuts - job done, and a slightly smug feeling inside!

The reason Dealer oil prices are expensive is thus:

 

Oil supplier pays for all tanks, pumps, meters, software to synch. with garage computers (garages mainly use Kerridge or Kalamazoo). In return for this 'free installation' the Dealer is bound to buy their oil from that manufacturer. The oil company has a captive market and the price increases to the dealer so that they can recoup their investment.

 

Pretty much like a pub being a 'tied house' to a particular beer supplier.

 

Knowing that, like a previous poster, I buy my oil (Quantum) elsewhere (TPS) and ask them to use it. My last service (and it WILL be my last service with them) was with Arnold Clark, Inverness. I was expecting to have the remains of the 5 litre container in the boot for top-ups - no such luck. What was I thinking!

 

Bill  

@lawnmowerman, I can understand that, but if using connected/syn'd smart systems and "leased" infrastructure ends up adding such a high mark up to some of their consumables - which they need to pass onto their customers, while the car manufacturer is aiming to reduce workshop costs to the customer - then something funny is going on. 

 

I'd think that if Heinz offered to fit a "tin of beans" dispenser to my local Sainsburys and jacked the price up to the level that VW Group dealers, and maybe other marques do, then I'd doubt if anyone would buy their Heinz beans there.

 

I'm surprised that so many people seem to be able to provide their oil for servicing, my VW dealer, when my Passat and wife's Polo were still within warranty and so handed in for servicing would not accept that from me - and I accepted it!

41 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

@lawnmowerman, I can understand that, but if using connected/syn'd smart systems and "leased" infrastructure ends up adding such a high mark up to some of their consumables - which they need to pass onto their customers, while the car manufacturer is aiming to reduce workshop costs to the customer - then something funny is going on. 

 

I'd think that if Heinz offered to fit a "tin of beans" dispenser to my local Sainsburys and jacked the price up to the level that VW Group dealers, and maybe other marques do, then I'd doubt if anyone would buy their Heinz beans there.

 

I'm surprised that so many people seem to be able to provide their oil for servicing, my VW dealer, when my Passat and wife's Polo were still within warranty and so handed in for servicing would not accept that from me - and I accepted it!

 

What makes you think the manufacturer is actively seeking to reduce servicing costs? Every business works out what profit it needs and then develops a strategy to achieve it. If they financed all of the costs for oil in their workshops then the costs would be front loaded rather than back loaded. Same difference only the charges would show up elsewhere. This way they can deflect criticism as it is the oil price - not their labour price.

 

Nothing funny going on - it has been this way for decades. Trust me, very few people take oil into the garage for their service. They rely on inaction - pretty much the same way people have an inertia about moving bank accounts or utilities. Do you think something funny is going on with pubs and tied houses to breweries?

 

Heinz? You're not comparing like with like.  A tin of beans is a product - like a car in a showroom. Split all the parts and the car would be dearer. This is about supplying a service.

 

You're dealer seems pretty switched on and probably has more custom than he can handle so he is playing hardball on the oil thing - go elsewhere? I don't think he would lose any sleep over it.  Hence his stance.

 

Bill (wrought from years of hard experience)