noise insulation

[alf.onso]

11 hours ago, JackySi said:

I see, looks really nice! And the acoustics thing sounds really logic. This is the way studios also do walls so the sound doesn't broadcast from the walls. In car it makes even more sense since panels are very thin
I need to order some asap . I'm just not sure about finances, some things are coming up and reserves are running out so need to wait next paycheck to see how stuff work out =). Not sure I could start some cause then it will get into my blood and it will annoy me if I don't buy more / all :D. You did rear doors too right?

 

How did you do the boot if I may ask? doesn't there the deadening material interfere with the boot cover?
Thank you very very much! 

 

P.S.: I feel little bad your answers are so full and lengthy, while my questions are just few lines :P

I forgot to mention that, after butyl mastics sheet, you also put back the original hood cover heat/noise isolator panel. It fits perfectly even after the vibration mats. 

 

Yes, I did rear doors too. There is a lot of noise coming from rear doors (and pilar between the doors).  Rear door speakers are such a joke (in Canton) so sound quality improvements were probably marginal though. 

 

For boot I used 2mm vibration mats and covered it in full (also spear wheel .... "place"). There is plenty of room so vibration mats won't interfere with interior panels nor boot floor mat. You wont see any diference. 
For boot you definately need the roller as there are lots of uneven places where you must "stretch" the vibration mat. 

Some use 4mm noise isolator, on boot floor, to cover vibration mats but I havent done it yet. Must test if the interiors panels fit perfectly after the noise isolator and maybe then will use it. 

Boot sides I covered with 2mm vibration mats and then added 4mm noise isolator. Basically I have put 4mm noise isolator everywhere I could (on top of vibration sheets) except doors and boot floor.

 

If you want I can take a picture of my boot (well, my cars boot not mine). I need to open boot walls anyway when I do the rear wheel arches (from the inside).  

 

I would recomend taking your time and doing couple of pieces at the time. That way you dont have to spend entire sum on one month and you wont get fed up of the sound deadening work so fast too:D And you also see/hear, how each panel will change the noise "experience". Take your time and enjoy the project:)

 

First thing I would recomend would be front arches from the outside and front doors. I think that front rear arches took 0,2m2 of 3mm vibration mats each but I dont remember how much the doors needed. 

As I mentioned in my previous post, first things I did were front and rear wheel arches from the outside. Next I did doors and after that studded tyre studs noise was 85% gone. There was still a bit coming from the front floor, pillar and the boot but if you have ever driven with studded tyres, then its a lot of noise loss.  

 

[JackySi]

2 hours ago, alf.onso said:

I forgot to mention that, after butyl mastics sheet, you also put back the original hood cover heat/noise isolator panel. It fits perfectly even after the vibration mats. 

 

Yes, I did rear doors too. There is a lot of noise coming from rear doors (and pilar between the doors).  Rear door speakers are such a joke (in Canton) so sound quality improvements were probably marginal though. 

 

For boot I used 2mm vibration mats and covered it in full (also spear wheel .... "place"). There is plenty of room so vibration mats won't interfere with interior panels nor boot floor mat. You wont see any diference. 
For boot you definately need the roller as there are lots of uneven places where you must "stretch" the vibration mat. 

Some use 4mm noise isolator, on boot floor, to cover vibration mats but I havent done it yet. Must test if the interiors panels fit perfectly after the noise isolator and maybe then will use it. 

Boot sides I covered with 2mm vibration mats and then added 4mm noise isolator. Basically I have put 4mm noise isolator everywhere I could (on top of vibration sheets) except doors and boot floor.

 

If you want I can take a picture of my boot (well, my cars boot not mine). I need to open boot walls anyway when I do the rear wheel arches (from the inside).  

 

I would recomend taking your time and doing couple of pieces at the time. That way you dont have to spend entire sum on one month and you wont get fed up of the sound deadening work so fast too:D And you also see/hear, how each panel will change the noise "experience". Take your time and enjoy the project:)

 

First thing I would recomend would be front arches from the outside and front doors. I think that front rear arches took 0,2m2 of 3mm vibration mats each but I dont remember how much the doors needed. 

As I mentioned in my previous post, first things I did were front and rear wheel arches from the outside. Next I did doors and after that studded tyre studs noise was 85% gone. There was still a bit coming from the front floor, pillar and the boot but if you have ever driven with studded tyres, then its a lot of noise loss.  

 

Awesome =)! Hehe, boot ^^. I even saved this page for offline use if I ever lose access or the thing brakes down haha.

So in all the summary what we were talking about for first purchase I need to buy 3 different "mats" for different sounds:
- 2mm Vibration mats (first layer)
- 4mm noise insulator (second layer)
- 35mm insulation matts (last layer, where it fits, guess not the doors?)

So for initial suggestion doors + arches (I'd do rear too so I'm done with doors in first "step" ^^) would take about 0.5/1m2 sheets, perhaps more?

Or did I miss understood? and the multiplayer is just for boot? 
I understand you don't have 100% figures =) i just try to imagine what to purchase heh

Um you posted 2 different shops from UK, any chance you could link where you were buying these?
Also maybe did u ever consider that any of these sound deadening sheets could interfere with servicing the car? E.g. unable to remove a bolt or brake line after? That's just little strange question, but I just thought about it. For doors okay no prob, but arches maybe?

P:S.: How did you jack up the Superb? I am afraid I don't know how to lift the car with trolley jack and put jack stands on the marked hardened areas? Last time I was removing front arches I just left it on Trolley jack but that's not safe... The car started losing height and I don't want to risk anything.

Edited 20 May, 2018 by JackySi

[nodigital]

17 hours ago, alf.onso said:

And you are right, the butyl mastics sheets are self adhesive. No special preporation or heating needed. Surface must be just dry and clean. I recommend to use some roller though. Like this: https://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-deadening-roller. Without roller you get air pockets on uneven surfaces. I have made such mistake in the past.

 

 

That roller looks very like the ones on Aliexpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/af/deadening-roller.html?SearchText=deadening+roller&d=y&blanktest=0&initiative_id=SB_20180520045425&origin=n&catId=0&isViewCP=y&jump=afs

 

Many thanks for this really great information. 

[alf.onso]

On 5/20/2018 at 13:30, JackySi said:

Awesome =)! Hehe, boot ^^. I even saved this page for offline use if I ever lose access or the thing brakes down haha.

So in all the summary what we were talking about for first purchase I need to buy 3 different "mats" for different sounds:
- 2mm Vibration mats (first layer)
- 4mm noise insulator (second layer)
- 35mm insulation matts (last layer, where it fits, guess not the doors?)

So for initial suggestion doors + arches (I'd do rear too so I'm done with doors in first "step" ^^) would take about 0.5/1m2 sheets, perhaps more?

Or did I miss understood? and the multiplayer is just for boot? 
I understand you don't have 100% figures =) i just try to imagine what to purchase heh

Um you posted 2 different shops from UK, any chance you could link where you were buying these?
Also maybe did u ever consider that any of these sound deadening sheets could interfere with servicing the car? E.g. unable to remove a bolt or brake line after? That's just little strange question, but I just thought about it. For doors okay no prob, but arches maybe?

P:S.: How did you jack up the Superb? I am afraid I don't know how to lift the car with trolley jack and put jack stands on the marked hardened areas? Last time I was removing front arches I just left it on Trolley jack but that's not safe... The car started losing height and I don't want to risk anything.

 

Actually you need 5 different mats

- 2mm vibration mats. First layer for doors, boot floor, boot sides, trunk lid, pilars.

- 3mm vibration mats. First layer for wheel arches (inside or outside or both), hood.

- 4mm noise isolator. Second layer for pilar, boot floors, trunk lid, boot sides. Also front and rear wheel arches from the outside (second layer).

- 15mm noise isolator. Third layer for doors. Also for all other interior panels like pilar, trunk lid etc. Not to be put on floor.

- 35mm noise isolator. Second layer for rear wheel arches where it fits (from the cabin side). Rest with 15mm sound isolator.

 

For doors, you can get a pretty good estimation when you measure your doors, multiply with 2 (because of two layers) and minus 10-15% for all kinds of places where you dont fit (beams inside doors, windows motor, wires etc). I think that door will take you atleast 2,5m2 of 2mm vibration mats.

Here's a link to an old project guide: http://www.autosound.ee/support/noise-insulation-manuals

I used to do pretty much the same way but now I have established my own tips and tricks but this is still very informative thing to read. This guide hase some numbers too for how much you would need things.

 

Multilayer is for every place were it fits. I only dont put it inside doors because I cant be 100% sure it wont get stuck in window mechanism. Otherwise I would

 

As I live in Estonia and vibration mats are heavy things to ship, I have only bought those from Tallinn. Actually from the same place whos link I posted with sound deadening guide. Their shop website is: http://www.autosound.ee/ and workshops: http://ravolar.ee. They do international shipping too. 

Oddly, Slilent Coat sound deadening materials are much more cheaper in Estonia than they are in UK. I even found one seller from Slovenia but their prices were Estonias times two. 

 

You can also google if someone is selling STP sound deadening materials near you. STP is thinner than Silent Coat but it is still very good. I'm a restless soul so one car I made with STP but Silent Coat I like more and don't plan to go back to STP.

 

I don't fear about sound deadening interfering warranty. Many car dealers use the very same shop, where I buy my sound deadening materials (including Skoda). They bring in a new unregistered car on a trailer and after couple of days they take the sound deadened car away. Also, my dealer was well aware that I'm going to do full sound deadening and speakers upgrade, when I bought the car.

 

Jacking up I do in the old school. I jack it up, take off the wheel and put it flat under the car (near to jack). Its like a security if a car should fall down, then it wont fall on me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 May, 2018 by alf.onso

[alf.onso]

On 5/20/2018 at 16:13, nodigital said:

 

That roller looks very like the ones on Aliexpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/af/deadening-roller.html?SearchText=deadening+roller&d=y&blanktest=0&initiative_id=SB_20180520045425&origin=n&catId=0&isViewCP=y&jump=afs

 

Many thanks for this really great information. 

Yup, this seems very much like a same thing If one has time to wait, then one can get all kinda fun things from Aliexpress. 

[xman]

6 hours ago, alf.onso said:

 

Jacking up I do in the old school. I jack it up, take off the wheel and put it flat under the car (near to jack). Its like a security if a car should fall down, then it wont fall on me.

 

 

Unless you're a midget, then I think 7½ inches (best case) clearance is not enough to stop it crushing your rib cage or head fatally.

[alf.onso]

17 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Unless you're a midget, then I think 7½ inches (best case) clearance is not enough to stop it crushing your rib cage or head fatally.

Thank god for 235/45 R18 tyres then 235 tyre should be 9,3" wide and I leave 0,5" space between car and the tire so I'm good (that makes me above average midget I guess). 

The main point actually is that you don't go under the car when you sound deaden wheel arches. Atleast I didn't and only my hands were under the car. 

 

But you are right xman. Safety should always come first!

[JackySi]

1 hour ago, alf.onso said:

Thank god for 235/45 R18 tyres then 235 tyre should be 9,3" wide and I leave 0,5" space between car and the tire so I'm good (that makes me above average midget I guess). 

The main point actually is that you don't go under the car when you sound deaden wheel arches. Atleast I didn't and only my hands were under the car. 

 

But you are right xman. Safety should always come first!

I agree about the safety part. I'll probably ask my moms cousin to lift my car up in his garage. Hes full time mechanic at home ^^ so will come in handy. I think I understand how this all works etc. Just last question. I saw on demo video of Silent Coat that they demonstrate panels by putting small 1/3 of the whole panel vibration deadening material on the middle and it works fine, does that mean if I some how don't get to cover whole doors inside for example, it should work fine as well? 

What I worry the most is putting too much material and then it won't allow me to add back the covers/panels. Sometimes I misjudge space and that might be an issue with such adhesive aluminium vibration dampening material?

So for warranty and issues (e.g. having have to replace something in car later) you avoid gluing anything down like cables right? So you glue panels around these things right

Sorry for so much questions. I'm actually understanding all, just these minor things left just to be sure.  I got some idea in my head how to do it but sometimes I prefer being 99% sure  than doing something wrong and even ruining something in an expensive car

 

P.S.: About prices in Slovenia, that's just Slovenia in general. People that run stores here are very stupid. They have policy if they don't sell much, they increase prices. So when they do sell, they make up for the non buyers. That's why 80% of computer parts stores and such stores like the one u found just died. Business doesn't run well here ^^. Now days I don't buy anything here except things that u can't avoid. Or if I find some smart seller that actually gives good price. Like I bought Osram Xenon (original) Cool blue Intense for 110€. Couldn't get that price if I ordered from Germany. Rest I get all from Amazion, Ebay, AliExpress and other EU stores.

Edited 22 May, 2018 by JackySi

[alf.onso]

1 hour ago, JackySi said:

I agree about the safety part. I'll probably ask my moms cousin to lift my car up in his garage. Hes full time mechanic at home ^^ so will come in handy. I think I understand how this all works etc. Just last question. I saw on demo video of Silent Coat that they demonstrate panels by putting small 1/3 of the whole panel vibration deadening material on the middle and it works fine, does that mean if I some how don't get to cover whole doors inside for example, it should work fine as well? 

What I worry the most is putting too much material and then it won't allow me to add back the covers/panels. Sometimes I misjudge space and that might be an issue with such adhesive aluminium vibration dampening material?

So for warranty and issues (e.g. having have to replace something in car later) you avoid gluing anything down like cables right? So you glue panels around these things right

Sorry for so much questions. I'm actually understanding all, just these minor things left just to be sure.  I got some idea in my head how to do it but sometimes I prefer being 99% sure  than doing something wrong and even ruining something in an expensive car

 

P.S.: About prices in Slovenia, that's just Slovenia in general. People that run stores here are very stupid. They have policy if they don't sell much, they increase prices. So when they do sell, they make up for the non buyers. That's why 80% of computer parts stores and such stores like the one u found just died. Business doesn't run well here ^^. Now days I don't buy anything here except things that u can't avoid. Or if I find some smart seller that actually gives good price. Like I bought Osram Xenon (original) Cool blue Intense for 110€. Couldn't get that price if I ordered from Germany. Rest I get all from Amazion, Ebay, AliExpress and other EU stores.

About covering just 1/3 of the panel, yes and then again no.

Yes because you can eliminate most of the vibration by covering only 65% of the panel with vibration mat. When we look into sound deadening theory and do some math, then for vibration, there is no point to cover more than 65%.

No because vibration mats also act as a sound isolator and therefore you should cover as much as possible with vibration mats. Here is one old video that demonstrates how different Silent Coat sound deadening materials block sound. It's not about vibration but sound. 

Yes, you won't be able to fit everywhere so some places you won't cover but you should cover as much as possible. Especially inner door panel and all its holes.

 

You are right, covering all kinda nuts and wires is definately not wise and it would have a negative effect on sound deadening results too. Vibration mats are easy to cut so no problem there.

But I have never had problem that sound isolation materials are too thick and panels wont fit. If you stick with the tutorials, then you won't get into trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JackySi]

1 hour ago, alf.onso said:

About covering just 1/3 of the panel, yes and then again no.

Yes because you can eliminate most of the vibration by covering only 65% of the panel with vibration mat. When we look into sound deadening theory and do some math, then for vibration, there is no point to cover more than 65%.

No because vibration mats also act as a sound isolator and therefore you should cover as much as possible with vibration mats. Here is one old video that demonstrates how different Silent Coat sound deadening materials block sound. It's not about vibration but sound. 

Yes, you won't be able to fit everywhere so some places you won't cover but you should cover as much as possible. Especially inner door panel and all its holes.

 

You are right, covering all kinda nuts and wires is definately not wise and it would have a negative effect on sound deadening results too. Vibration mats are easy to cut so no problem there.

But I have never had problem that sound isolation materials are too thick and panels wont fit. If you stick with the tutorials, then you won't get into trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much!!! Time to find a good store that ships to Slovenia at "Normal" prices =).
Can't wait to start hearing the difference!

[JackySi]

I've been trying to find a "normal" priced store in Europe that ships to Slovenia for about 8 hours last 2 days. I lost hope... 
I got quotes for shipping at 40€+... On Amazon its 99€. Ebay 20 pounds per package. These people are crazy...

4x alloy wheels from Germany, 100-200kg almost, 50€. Few sheets of sound deadening material that doesn't exceed 10kg, 50€+. 
But i'm not willing to pay 110€ for 40 sheets package in Slovenia. Its not about being "Expensive". But if the product can be bought else where for normal prices, i'm not going to feed shops with prices like that. Shipping is not that expensive. 

Its about principle... I really want to stick to Silent Coat but I can't =/. I can order from US Dynamat cheaper than get Silent coat with shipping from EUROPE. Where is logic in that?
P.S.: I wrote mail to official store for shipping to Slovenia, maybe they will be more reasonable =) Not sure why I didn't try that sooner

Edited 23 May, 2018 by JackySi

[alf.onso]

On 5/23/2018 at 13:37, JackySi said:

I've been trying to find a "normal" priced store in Europe that ships to Slovenia for about 8 hours last 2 days. I lost hope... 
I got quotes for shipping at 40€+... On Amazon its 99€. Ebay 20 pounds per package. These people are crazy...

4x alloy wheels from Germany, 100-200kg almost, 50€. Few sheets of sound deadening material that doesn't exceed 10kg, 50€+. 
But i'm not willing to pay 110€ for 40 sheets package in Slovenia. Its not about being "Expensive". But if the product can be bought else where for normal prices, i'm not going to feed shops with prices like that. Shipping is not that expensive. 

Its about principle... I really want to stick to Silent Coat but I can't =/. I can order from US Dynamat cheaper than get Silent coat with shipping from EUROPE. Where is logic in that?
P.S.: I wrote mail to official store for shipping to Slovenia, maybe they will be more reasonable =) Not sure why I didn't try that sooner

Yup, shipment cost are sometimes insane. And I can tell you that if you order something from Estonia, then that 40-50 euros is exactly how much transportation company wants from the parcel. Investigated a bit and the cheapest price (for 40 sheets package) I could find was national postal company for 38 euros. 

Only point to order such heavy stuff from abroad is when you order in bulk. For example if you order (from Estonia) one pacage of Silent Coat Standard (41pc), with transportation you pay 120 euros but when you order a starter set, it would cost 192 euros including transportation. 

 

No-one selling STP noise isolation stuff in Slovenia?

[JackySi]

Found about 4 stores so far but prices are like 110€ for 40 sheets package (Anti-vibration mats). That's without transportation which they charge about 10€ for extra. 4€ per sheet. 
Silent Coat Noise Isolator 6 mm = 10€ per sheet.

[nodigital]

On 5/13/2018 at 11:45, JackySi said:

 difference. At least for my car anyway. Bought these two: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Pcs-Lot-Car-Sound-Insulation-Rubber-Sealing-Strip-For-B-Pillar-Noise-Windproof-Door-Seal-Strip/32808858106.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ryMdgL
 

 

I purchased a set of these.  7 GBP and delivered in just 7 days

 

 

One end is straight cut, the other end has a curved section for better integration into the existing door rubber:

 

Trimmed 28cm off the total length and fitted to the door.  The metal inside is tough so I used wire cutters.  Its segmented so cutting in the gaps is easier to go through 2mm rather than 12mm.  The ribbing on the edge gives a clue to the spacing.

 

The curved section sits partially under the existing top rubber for a better fit and finish:

Closing the door has more resistance and makes a slightly duller sound.  When closed you can still see some gap present:

 

As a comparison, my Mk7.5 golf has rubber trim in the same location and appears more sealed when closed:

 

 

Aesthetically, it might not be to the taste of those requiring a more factory finish look.   Will attempt next week to do some A-B audio samples at motorway speed to record its affect.

 

Edited 25 May, 2018 by nodigital

[nodigital]

Any thoughts about using a composite of Mass Loaded Vinyl (5kg/m at 3mm thickness) and close cell foam?   MLV is relatively cheap per m2 and closed cell isnt that expensive.  Buying something pre-made works out at four times the cost, such as the Dodo MLV mat

 

Noticed that NK Group use something similar as their solution based on two layers of slightly less dense MLV with a presumably 5(ish)mm foam centre.  Have seen notes that MLV gives 27db+ of insulation when isolated and composites can be 40db which is quite considerable but no statement of the frequency range.  

 

Would a 10mm foam and MLV composition make sense to cover the boot area floor, such as an equivalent to this:

 

Would using SilentCoat to deaden panels (Not fully cover) then a layer on the floor /boot of 3mm closed cell and 5kg/m MLV make sense for reducing low frequency vibrations in the chassis?   

 

The MLV statement of frequency response from Sound Away is slightly confusing.  1lb/ft2 (5kg/m2) appears to give 16db @ 125Hz   but bonded to foam only 13db which seems counter intuitive?

https://www.soundaway.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/mlvbarrier_spec.pdf

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Edited 4 June, 2018 by nodigital

[alf.onso]

Hi @nodigital,

 

I wouldn't say taht Mass Loaded Vinyl is the best material to use in a car (that includes the Dodo version). 

Why I have such opinion:

1. One of the main sound sources in a car is vibration from metal panels. To get the vibration down, you must add mass to them and you can only do this by gluing mass to the metal panel. With MLV you use the mass of a panel itself to keep the mass connected to metal panel and that is not effective at all. Yes, it deadens incoming sound too as it's a thick material but vibration is most important. 

2. MLV weights a lot. 5kg/m2 is much more than 3kg/m2 compared to butyl vibration mats. 

3. MLV can only be installed on horizontal surfaces. Boot floor is not a place were most of the noise is coming from. When we talk about the rear of the car, then much more noise is coming from rear wheen arches and also boot sides. Yes, if you sound deaden, then you must do boot floor too but if you do only boot floor, then the effect is minimal. 

4. I dont know about soundaway but Dodo MLV is very thick (8mm). It will show that things are not factory.

 

MLV is a cool product but IMHO not suitable for using in car. 

 

If you want to save money on sound deadening, then you could cover panels only partly. You could use the chessboard technics where you cut rectangular pieces of butyl vibration mat and place them on a car panel like chessboard. Those butyl pieces could be in size of 10cm x 13cm. That way you cover 65% of a metal panel and get most of the vibration down. After that I would personally cover the whole panel with some extra sound isolator. For example like https://www.dodomat.com/collections/sound-deadening/products/dodo-mat-car-kit?variant=39561234250 or https://www.silentcoat.co.uk/collections/isolator/products/silent-coat-isolator-6-large-sheet

Wheel arches I would cover in full.

 

 

 

 

[nodigital]

On 5/13/2018 at 09:26, alf.onso said:

deadening (I think its my 4-th car to sound deaden), I only used bityl mastic sheets but now I have understood that multi layer makes huge difference. For that I use 4mm noise isolator on wheel arches on the outside (front and rear), pilar between dors, front floor, rear wheel arches (dont know hot to call them but its around the fuel cap), trunk lid. There is a link for it but in UK it they dont seems to have 4mm version but 6mm: https://www.silentcoat.co.uk/collections/isolator/products/silent-coat-isolator-6-large-sheet

When using the noise isolator on the outside, is there a risk of it peeling or falling off?   Did you use any additional adhesive to bond the isolator to the silentcoat?

[alf.onso]

5 hours ago, nodigital said:

When using the noise isolator on the outside, is there a risk of it peeling or falling off?   Did you use any additional adhesive to bond the isolator to the silentcoat?

 

Adhesive on Silent Coat isolator is stronger than adhesive on on Silent Coat isolator. So it's blody strong and if you once glue it, then you wont get it off anymore. 

I dont see it could have any problems on the outside. 

[mrgf]

...All that sound deadening matting and all those dampers etc, you also get a free, built in, lowering kit!

[alf.onso]

1 hour ago, mrgf said:

...All that sound deadening matting and all those dampers etc, you also get a free, built in, lowering kit!

 

If you buy two sets of sound deadening you get one lowering kit for free! Only today!:D

 

Buuuuut, I'm really a fan of sound deadening.  Queter ans smoother ride and better sound quality makes it worth a while. 

[Morgs_Aber]

Did you get the chance to test NoDigital?  interested to hear any feedback as thats where I feel the majority of wind noise is coming from.  

[nodigital]

Yes, did a test this evening.  Dual carriageway, 70mph in both directions, first with the seals in place, then without, then with again.  Recorded on a Zoom H2 in two channel surround from 4 mics.    With my son in the back monitoring and subjective listening whilst in the car, the evaluation of what we heard and the recording was inconclusive.  We couldn't tell any significant difference in wind noise or change of location of noise or elimination of noise.  The wind turbulence externally was consistent above 60mph and couldn't tell if there was anything emanating from the doors or whether it was wing mirror related.   Maybe at 90mph there'd be more and on a still day when there's no wind turbulence, just the vehicle moving through the air may give a noticeable affect.  Like all after market noise reduction  approaches, it may give some benefit if the rest of the vehicle is more quiet - Ie addressed wheel well noise,  etc

 

So, my personal verdict is the rubber seal, in my observation, made no difference to noise while the vehicle was in motion at UK speed limits.   However, at 7GBP it was, for me, a worthy purchase to improve the quality of the door close sound.

 

[JackySi]

1 hour ago, nodigital said:

Yes, did a test this evening.  Dual carriageway, 70mph in both directions, first with the seals in place, then without, then with again.  Recorded on a Zoom H2 in two channel surround from 4 mics.    With my son in the back monitoring and subjective listening whilst in the car, the evaluation of what we heard and the recording was inconclusive.  We couldn't tell any significant difference in wind noise or change of location of noise or elimination of noise.  The wind turbulence externally was consistent above 60mph and couldn't tell if there was anything emanating from the doors or whether it was wing mirror related.   Maybe at 90mph there'd be more and on a still day when there's no wind turbulence, just the vehicle moving through the air may give a noticeable affect.  Like all after market noise reduction  approaches, it may give some benefit if the rest of the vehicle is more quiet - Ie addressed wheel well noise,  etc

 

So, my personal verdict is the rubber seal, in my observation, made no difference to noise while the vehicle was in motion at UK speed limits.   However, at 7GBP it was, for me, a worthy purchase to improve the quality of the door close sound.

 

I see. I noticed most difference at high speeds 150+km/h (up to 240km/h on instrument cluster). Testing was done on German Autobahn. My driving speeds are in 99% 135-150km/h. 
Today I also did record on fuel consumption, 4.6L on 100/km. Generally I have 6.3. 

Edited 14 June, 2018 by JackySi

[nodigital]

So, I decided to continue with my noise reduction experimentation.  Notes here detail my experience

 

First thing to try out was the bonnet.   On mine, it already has some form of factory insulation to presumably reduce the higher frequencies but does nothing for the the hollow sound of the hood when tapped.  

Clips were easy to remove by squeezing with care as they'd be long gone if dropped in the engine bay.   in my purchasing I'd bought two  lots of sheets, one to experiment with, the other for more crucial parts.

 

The experiment pack was PeaceMAT XR Pro https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N56230D 

 The 'large' sheets seemed reasonable value but they were not that large.    All told, they were about 23GBP for what works out to be a square metre and at a weight of around 3.4Kg per m2.   The price makes them about 10% more expensive than buying a silentcoat bulk pack so not so 'lower cost' as described.   They look similar to Silent Coat and are near enough similar thickness but work out at around half the size of a Silent Coat sheet from the bulk pack.

 

Applied 8 PeaceMAT to the hood in about 15mins.   It was good to work in free space an understand what the material is like to work with without being in a more difficult space.

Clipped the original cover back on and tried it out.

 

In terms of effectiveness, its on the 80:20 scale where its likely to be 20% of the last 20% in benefit.   It didnt strike me as being significant or noticeable so not worth being the first thing on your list.   On a satisfaction scale it scores well:  Done something to 'reduce' noise for around ten quid and its very easy with no tools other than the sheets and a roller. 

 

Next up, the rear wheel wells.

 

 

[nodigital]

Wheel well noise, I'm told is a significant contributor overall so with this in mind I decided to try out the rears first.   Having recently been camping and totally filling the boot space to the roof it showed that noise reduction could be had and would make a difference.

 

Jacked the car up using an 'alternative method'.  The handbook and docs recommend jacking up on the weld jack point which made me uneasy about stability, folding, etc.    The alternative was to jack on the under arm with suitable wood support to distribute.  I then used the cars scissor jack on the jack weld point to act as a safety support rather than an axle stand.    This meant the vehicle height was only minimally increased when raising to get the wheel off.   Someone please point out if this is a bad approach.

So, with the vehicle up the next step was to remove the liner cover.   Its fastened with a variety of screws distributed on the left and right, back and three around the arch.   The flap on the bottom front left of the image is integral to the cover so remove the screws including the one underneath but not the flat head ones.   If the liner doesn't come out easily, check that all the screws around the arch are out - worth brushing off the dirt first to inspect.   Once removed, give it a good clean.

 

One thing I noticed is the amount of freespace from the liner to the bodywork and its flexible construction which gave some options.

 

Here is the rear drivers side showing the back and the tube is the fuel spill drain (I presume?)

 

The metal was brushed then wiped with a rag and technical alcohol to clean the surface.   There's some rustproof coatings on the bottom edge of mine where I didnt put any SilentCoat as it didnt seem to adhere

 

I covered the well with Silent Coat, as much as reasonable possible without addressing every spare space and avoiding where the shock is and obviously the fuel pipe on the drivers side.    We then tried a few things and reasoned that it was worth seeing if the 10mm isolater sheets would fit.   I bought some general brand ones as I planned to put them in the doors:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MDUB6T6  - 12 sheets of 50x30cm

 

The adhesive seemed ok - a stray off-cut stuck itself to my jeans and made a mess trying to remove it but I'm still uneasy on its stickiness to foil.   I figured adhering  as large a piece as possible would be best and its sandwiched between the liner and body so shouldn't go anywhere if it comes loose.

 

Sticking on the isolator, avoiding the screw holes I ended up with:

I didnt go nuts trying to cover every last cm2 due to angles and sizes required.   The liner fits back in place with a little pushing to get the screw holes aligned.  The screws have enough thread to go far enough in to hold it well without strain on the liner, screw or thread.

 

The other thing to note is the gaps in the liner with ridges.  I filled some of the top spaces with spare offcuts:

These are at the same height as the ridges

 

With the liner  in place everything is hidden, except for a section of the isolator:

This is the only bit that worries me as it'll get full weather exposure.   I should have used additional contact adhesive on the isolator for this section to ensure there's no chance of it lifting.  If you use any, check its ok with foam as some adhesives will melt it rather than bond.  I plan to keep an eye on it and take remedial action if it starts to lift away.

 

After completing both sides, took the car out and noticed a significant drop in the rear tyre noise.   Tyre noise now seems to be coming more from the front and driving at 30mph on some bad tarmac now doesn't have the roaring drumming noise from the rear.   Around  four sheets of Silent Coat and four of the isolator each side to do the job it's pretty cost effective.   Significantly effective and took me around a couple of hours (Mainly trying to figure stuff out).

 

Will attempt the fronts next.

 

 

Edited 15 June, 2018 by nodigital