Citigo Electric

[Ronn]

I believe Skoda intend to release an Electric version of the Citigo!

I hope it has a vastly increased range over its cousin, the VW e-Up, and is priced more sensibly.

All manufacturers are dragging their feet regarding both Electric & Hybrid models of cars.

It's as if the want to 'milk' as much as they can out of their 'old' fossil fuel technology offerings before they allow the car buying public into the pleasure of 1 Pedal Electric transport.

I know Battery Technology has been the real hold up in this matter but, Nissan Leaf Mk2 (which is a largish saloon) is now getting 150+ miles on a charge with a 40 kWh Battery & they are releasing a version next year with 60 Kwh Battery giving 225+ miles range.

Hybrids are also slow onto the market.

The much celebrated Toyota Prius Mk1 was released 10+ years ago! Followed now by a Prius Mk2 with much improved Power Train & Battery capacity!

Where are the VW/Skoda offerings to match the Nissan Leaf & Toyota Prius?

In fact, where are all Manufacturers offerings on this new technology.

Unless pushed by Government to perform at a faster pace, we shall still be offered the same fossil fuel powered transport for years to come.

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Vastly improved range and cheaper...good luck with that!

[amwphotos]

Don't agree that they are doing it to "milk old tech", I just spent this weekend driving West Wales, to Thetford, to Bath and home again, staying at an air b&b in bath. This journey would have been a right pain in the arse in a "long range" leaf, and even a tesla trying to recharge. Whereas in my Octavia I filled up once, and got 62mpg. A citigo isn't exactly blessed with the space to take 200 miles of batteries is it!

[Ronn]

I think what you say entirely proves my point.

Their is no desire by motor manufacturers to spend vast amounts on Electric Car Technology & development while they have off the shelf products that suit your needs & 90% of the population.

While existing cars are fairly cheap to purchase against 1960's prices, all that motorists are bothered about is the price of Petrol/Diesel to fuel them!

There is no doubt that Electric is the future for Cars & that Battery Technology is move forward at a pace.

But, unless Governments 'Force the Hand' of the manufacturers, the introduction of Electric Cars & the infrastructure to support them will move along at a snail's pace!

 

[Ronn]

Maybe Western Governments don't want Electric Cars to be widespread on our roads?

Maybe they just give 'Lip Service' to their introduction & development to satisfy the 'Green Lobby'.

Afterall, they get a fat chunk of revenue off the Petrol & Diesel sales to waste on other projects!

They'd have to create a new pricing structure for Domestic Electricity to take into account the home charging of Electric Vehicles. 

Afterall, they ain't going to miss out on all that lovely lolly that they get off Petrol are they?

Then there's the expansion of Electricity supply that's required to service this new Technology!

All sounds like a big headache to me.

Perhaps the Government have decided to kick the accelerated rate of Electric Car production into the long grass & let some future generation sort it out.

Afterall, that's what they do with most difficult decisions!

Don't they?

Edited 13 August, 2018 by Ronn

[edbostan]

The government will have to think up ways to make up the cash lost due to fuel duty on fossil fuels. The outcome will be pricier electricity most probably through sockets dedicated to vehicle re-charging. I would hate to think that domestic users will see blanket price rises across their bills

[domhnall]

4 minutes ago, Ronn said:

Maybe Western Governments don't want Electric Cars to be widespread on our roads?

Maybe they just give lip service to their introduction & development to satisfy the, 'Green Lobby'.

Afterall, they get a fat chunk of revenue of the Petrol & Diesel sales to waste on other projects!

These have to create a new pricing structure for domestic electricity to take into account the home charging of electric vehicles. 

Afterall, they ain't going to miss out on all that lovely lolly that they get off Petrol.

Then there's the expansion of Electricity supply that's required to service this new Technology!

All sounds like a headache to me.

Perhaps the Government have decided to kick the accelerated rate of Electric Car production into the long grass & let some future generation sort it out.

Afterall, that's what they do with most difficult decisions!

 

actually the supply isn't the issue, the transmission grid is the problem, certainly in Scotland we produce more power than the grid can take which is why you see turbines switched off from time to time even when it is windy. And the Government here is very much behind the push for electric transport - that's why the railways are being electrified at long last and why they are funding the building of EV charging stations. The big issue is air quality in cities. Edinburgh announced last week that large parts of the city will see internal combustion engines banned for several days each month and Glasgow announced a low emission zone last month too. 

 

I gave up waiting for Skoda to produce an EV and switched to a new Leaf. So far it's been great though not a patch on Skoda in terms of interior quality and features. Can't argue with the lower cost of fuel, servicing and VED though. 

[Breezy_Pete]

26 minutes ago, Ronn said:

There is no doubt that Electric is the future for Cars & that Battery Technology is move forward at a pace

I have doubts about both of those things actually.

Battery technology seems to be fairly stagnant at scary-in-a-fire Lithium cells, and as long as there is economically retrievable fossil fuel available, it fills a need very effectively for the foreseeable future.

[Ronn]

I'm sure they have the savvy to overcome any fire issues with lithium battery technology.

If they haven't already done so to an acceptable level of safety.

These batteries are used everywhere now.

Most people are walking about with them in their pockets or handbags inside their mobile phones without ever knowing about it.

They're in all the modern commercial aircraft that people go on holiday in.

You never here of anybody whose refused to board an aircraft because it's got lithium batteries in it!

They are everywhere!

Modern life cannot exist without them!

[Stonesie]

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/skoda/skoda-master-plan-czech-brand-gears-up-for-electrification/

 

And battery technology is far from stagnant, they're working on solid state batteries which will be safer and charge in 10-15 minutes if the charger can supply the power to do it. But these things take a long time to get from the laboratory to the consumer.

Edited 13 August, 2018 by Stonesie

[Breezy_Pete]

44 minutes ago, Stonesie said:

working on

That's the key.

Ronn wants it now, "vastly improved range".

 

Chemistry/Physics/Thermodynamics doesn't tend to respond all that co-operatively to human orders.

[Luckypants]

As I understand it, the e-Citigo will have about 200 mile range (as will e-!UP by then) and is due in 2019. For the type of car the Citigo is, 200 mile range is perfectly adequate. I'm eagerly awaiting developments in this area, as I like the Citigo and want an electric car. I'm ready to chop in the Citigo Monte Carlo if the electric version is up to the hype.

[Ronn]

Interesting you say 'for the type of car the Citigo is, 200 miles range is perfectly adequate'.

 

I often do 250/300 mile journeys in my Citigo, with no discomfort or travel fatigue.

Why is it that people have this notion that, - small cars are only useful for travelling locally, the school run or nipping down to Sainsbury's?

I know Manufactures aim these products at that market & even give them stupid names like Citigo to steer the public in the direction as to which car to buy for a particular need.

But, all my life I've used big cars & small cars for any length of journey without any detrement to myself of the car.

 

 

[Ootohere]

The UK Government can not mess about for ever.

The Scottish Government are talking the talk, they need to move their backsides as well rather than taking out of them.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452464-england-ev-charging-points-a-proposal 

[Luckypants]

9 hours ago, Ronn said:

Interesting you say 'for the type of car the Citigo is, 200 miles range is perfectly adequate'.

 

I often do 250/300 mile journeys in my Citigo, with no discomfort or travel fatigue.

Why is it that people have this notion that, - small cars are only useful for travelling locally, the school run or nipping down to Sainsbury's?

I know Manufactures aim these products at that market & even give them stupid names like Citigo to steer the public in the direction as to which car to buy for a particular need.

But, all my life I've used big cars & small cars for any length of journey without any detrement to myself of the car.

 

 

I stand by the statement. No one would have a Citigo who is regularly doing 300 mile journeys. By regular I mean at least once a week. I don't mean that the Citigo is not capable, just that its not the right tool if doing regular long trips.

 

So I need to go to Scotland, about 220 miles.... halfway up the M6 I want a coffee, a pee, maybe lunch depending on time of day - I stop and plug the car in to a fast charger. By the time I'm done 'taking a break', my car will hopefully be charged from about 40% to about 80% battery (assuming I set off from home on 100% battery) and I'm able to complete my journey with no issue - therefore the range is not such a great issue. For those times I need to do 4 hours plus straight sat in the car, a larger EV or ICE vehicle would be more appropriate, simply because its more comfortable. Given the choice between my Karoq (or previous Leon) and the Citigo for a long journey, the Citigo loses.

Edited 14 August, 2018 by Luckypants
Clarity

[domhnall]

13 hours ago, Offski said:

The UK Government can not mess about for ever.

The Scottish Government are talking the talk, they need to move their backsides as well rather than taking out of them.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452464-england-ev-charging-points-a-proposal 

 

 

like this you mean?

 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/angus-mearns/705446/angus-a90-project-will-create-electric-vehicle-charging-hub/

 

 

[domhnall]

4 hours ago, Luckypants said:

I stand by the statement. No one would have a Citigo who is regularly doing 300 mile journeys. By regular I mean at least once a week. I don't mean that the Citigo is not capable, just that its not the right tool if doing regular long trips.

 

So I need to go to Scotland, about 220 miles.... halfway up the M6 I want a coffee, a pee, maybe lunch depending on time of day - I stop and plug the car in to a fast charger. By the time I'm done 'taking a break', my car will hopefully be charged from about 40% to about 80% battery (assuming I set off from home on 100% battery) and I'm able to complete my journey with no issue - therefore the range is not such a great issue. For those times I need to do 4 hours plus straight sat in the car, a larger EV or ICE vehicle would be more appropriate, simply because its more comfortable. Given the choice between my Karoq (or previous Leon) and the Citigo for a long journey, the Citigo loses.

 

possibly, possibly not, small cars can be very comfortable these days. If the engine is powerful enough and the car comfortable enough there's no reason it shouldn't be a regular long distance car. 

 

On your charging times, I charged my new leaf from 30% to 92% in just over 15 minutes after I drove it up from England. That's the current tech. No reason to think VAG would be any slower than that. I barely had time to finish my coffee never mind grab a bite to eat and go for a pee. 

 

 

[Luckypants]

54 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

On your charging times, I charged my new leaf from 30% to 92% in just over 15 minutes after I drove it up from England. That's the current tech. No reason to think VAG would be any slower than that. I barely had time to finish my coffee never mind grab a bite to eat and go for a pee. 

 

 

There you go then. This is why I personally feel the 200 mile range mark to be a good benchmark for my needs. I'm impressed with the speed of charge, hopefully the e-Citigo will be comparable or perhaps better.

[Ootohere]

domhnall,  wonderful.

They just need to approve a hotel like Premier Inn or a Travelodge and things will be great.

McDonalds is always full and KFC is not.   Maybe while some are charging at Orchard Bank they can have a walk around Forfar loch. Only 3 miles.

[domhnall]

On 14/08/2018 at 14:43, Luckypants said:

There you go then. This is why I personally feel the 200 mile range mark to be a good benchmark for my needs. I'm impressed with the speed of charge, hopefully the e-Citigo will be comparable or perhaps better.

Charging always slows down beyond 90 % that's just how lithium ion battery tech works and why most ev drivers just charge to 80 or 90% on public chargers 

[Gerrycan]

More frequent charges to 90% would seem the way to go for most longer journeys.

I read that fast charges and full charges have a negative (?) effect on battery life/number of cycles/capacity

The Nmh batteries in the Toyota Hybrids are managed to max out at 80% and not drop below 30% which achieves very long real battery life for the type and application, albeit at the expense of electrical assisted range.

 

I have wondered whether vehicle Lithium batteries are managed in this way for longevity, so that 100% full is actually a bit lower and they are never actually allowed to run fully down either. It would make sense if they did to protect the batteries from user 'misuse', especially during weather extremes.

Edited 16 August, 2018 by Gerrycan

[Ronn]

Yes the Expected 200 miles range on the New Electric Citigo sounds like a useful & useable range in an Electric Car.

Let's hope the 200 mile range is a reality & not just optimistic hype.

I tell you what.

I think the Plug In Hybrid car has also got some mileage in it.(excuse the pun).
Just until they really get Electric Car range to a point where the driver doesn't suffer from 'Range Anxiety', I think the Plug In Hybrid is the answer.

After an overnight full charge, a Plug In Hybrid allows you to travel 50+ miles on Electric Only so you can do your daily commute or the 1st section of a longer journey on Electric Only, before the Petrol Engine cuts in & takes over the 'Heavy Lifting'.

This sounds like the ideal solution to me while they tinker about with improving Electric Car range.

P.S. did you notice I slipped in that expression 'Heavy Lifting' into my text?

It's one of those 'in vogue' expressions that people use to impress others.

I first heard it used in this context by David Cameron.

Do you remember him?

He's the one who had the Brexit referendum vote Backfire on him.

[Ootohere]

VW Group were not really trying to get them affordable, or they were costing them too much to make without a profit, or or or or,  who knows, other than the VW Management, 

but they obviously were not interested  in getting a Skoda version out with any haste.

Counting on getting the batteries to give greater ranges seems to be their problem.

 

 

[domhnall]

9 hours ago, Ronn said:

Yes the Expected 200 miles range on the New Electric Citigo sounds like a useful & useable range in an Electric Car.

Let's hope the 200 mile range is a reality & not just optimistic hype.

I tell you what.

I think the Plug In Hybrid car has also got some mileage in it.(excuse the pun).
Just until they really get Electric Car range to a point where the driver doesn't suffer from 'Range Anxiety', I think the Plug In Hybrid is the answer.

After an overnight full charge, a Plug In Hybrid allows you to travel 50+ miles on Electric Only so you can do your daily commute or the 1st section of a longer journey on Electric Only, before the Petrol Engine cuts in & takes over the 'Heavy Lifting'.

This sounds like the ideal solution to me while they tinker about with improving Electric Car range.

P.S. did you notice I slipped in that expression 'Heavy Lifting' into my text?

It's one of those 'in vogue' expressions that people use to impress others.

I first heard it used in this context by David Cameron.

Do you remember him?

He's the one who had the Brexit referendum vote Backfire on him.

 

 

OK so nearly two weeks into my EV ownership I can tell you that I have no range anxiety. 

 

It would be different if I was regularly driving long distances but in day to day use it's just not an issue. If you think of it as driving with a quarter of a tank of fuel you'll get the idea.  If you had a quarter of a tank in your petrol or diesel car would you be anxious? No, you'd just work out where and when you were going to refuel. And the big benefit is of course that you fill up overnight at home anyway. 

 

My car only has a range of 170 but I've not been remotely bothered by that even when I drove back up from England when I bought it. 

[Ootohere]

I was interested to see what the range was on my new electric bike was but i needn't have worried, it is good for 40 miles with plenty assistance, and more if i peddle a bit harder.

If i carry a spare battery or just the charger and wait about for 3 hours i will have the same range or better than an e-Up!.