After much careful thought & investigation, I've plumped for a Suzuki Swift SZ-5 Hybrid with all the bells & whistles as std equipment, including regenerative braking, etc:

Just read up on the spec of this car, it's fabulous.

One thing it doesn't process however is - auto rain detecting wipers!

How did they miss this this useful tool.

After all, auto rain detecting wipers are standard fayre on the Renault inexpensive Dacia brand.

Also, no heated Front Seats which I'll also miss.

Apart from those two, the car has absolutely everything I can think off.

 

So I think the Suzuki Swift SZ-5 Hybrid is a great mid way step to full EV and will suit me well until

 

1. EV cars become competively priced with existing Petrol cars.

2. The boffins develop battery technology to get long range at affordable price.

 

All I ask is: EVs should cost no more than their existing Petrol equivalent & travel the same distance on a full charge as we get out of a full tank of Petrol.

2 hours ago, Ronn said:

1. EV cars become competively priced with existing Petrol cars.

2. The boffins develop battery technology to get long range at affordable price.

 

All I ask is: EVs should cost no more than their existing Petrol equivalent & travel the same distance on a full charge as we get out of a full tank of Petrol.

like all new technology, the prices are always ‘way out’ but they’ll eventually come down in price and be competitive. I reckon Tesla will be the first to offer an affordable EV, and to be fair, they’re nearly there with the Model 3 which is the most sought after EV in the UK currently! Price for a Model 3 in the UK could be anywhere between £28k-£32k depending on country taxes / import duties, which really isn’t that bad, especially when the car can be updated over the internet when there’s new firmware (for example, Tesla released an update to all owners which increased battery performance by 5%) -  I don’t recall seeing any other manufacturer doing this!

 

 

I was thinking that Peugeot (Citroen, DS, Opel, Vauxhall) should have an affordable EV very soon, and then Renault / Nissan / Mitsubishi.

Why would it not be companies that are European & Asian with a bit of North American thrown in that can produce and sell and still make profits rather than a North American based manufacturer.

Unless maybe TESLA get around to assembling cars in Europe.  Or in the UK even.

 

Less connectivity might actually be a boon in the UK seeing how rubbish the Mobile networks are.

http://fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-news/2019/03/28/gridserve-to-build-100-solar-powered-electric-vehicle-forecourts

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

51 minutes ago, Jonny118118 said:

like all new technology, the prices are always ‘way out’ but they’ll eventually come down in price and be competitive. I reckon Tesla will be the first to offer an affordable EV, and to be fair, they’re nearly there with the Model 3 which is the most sought after EV in the UK currently! Price for a Model 3 in the UK could be anywhere between £28k-£32k depending on country taxes / import duties, which really isn’t that bad, especially when the car can be updated over the internet when there’s new firmware (for example, Tesla released an update to all owners which increased battery performance by 5%) -  I don’t recall seeing any other manufacturer doing this!

 

 

 

pal of mine bought a 2 year old Zoe for £5.5k. I reckon it will be a while before Tesla sells cars as affordable as that

 

5 hours ago, Ronn said:

 

So I think the Suzuki Swift SZ-5 Hybrid is a great mid way step to full EV and will suit me well until

 

1. EV cars become competively priced with existing Petrol cars.

2. The boffins develop battery technology to get long range at affordable price.

 

All I ask is: EVs should cost no more than their existing Petrol equivalent & travel the same distance on a full charge as we get out of a full tank of Petrol.

 

I'll be interested to hear of your opinion of the Hybrid Swift when you have owned it for a while.

 

Generally I agree with you, however I think you are being a little simplistic in your terms of EV acceptability as they are only relative to the current costs and availability of carbon fuels.

If there were a Middle East conflict leading to fuel shortages and very high prices, or the Government in its wisdom (sarcasm) imposed very high fuel taxes to rid the roads of toxic fumes then I suspect your 'acceptability factors' would change accordingly.

 

I did put down a whole load of other factors but it all ran into the end of civilisation due to global warming, so  I deleted that rant. Have a nice day.

Edited 11 April, 20197 yr by Gerrycan

We can all conjure up situations that put Petrol cars in a very dark disadvantaged place as against EV cars, - Wars in the oil producing areas of the World, artificially high Gov Fuel Taxes, etc: we've had Wars in oil producing areas of the World and the UK already Tax Petrol at about 90% of its true cost. - but it ain't stopped the flow of Petrol from the middle East oil fields into out Petrol Tanks in over 100 years of usage.

Point here is: the UK Government NEEDS the revenue that Petrol provides, they ain't going to kill the goose that lays the Golden Egg without 1st slapping huge Taxes on EV car usage & the use of Electricity in those EV cars for private travel, no way, never. 

 

Also, the whole of the middle Eastern economy is based on oil.

The Saudis, Iran, Dubia, etc, and even Nigeria need oil sales to the developed world to keep a shirt on the backs of their citizens & food in their bellies.

 

So, I have no fear whatsoever in the fulfilment of the scenarios you conjure up.

 

More likely, as EV cars become more popular in the West, the oil producing nations will REDUCE the price of oil on the world market to 'stay in business'.

 

Mr Gerrycan,

 

It amazes me the huge numbers of people on this web site who genuinely believe that when we all get into the new super duper EV cars, - instead of us spending £30/£40 a week on Petrol to go back & forth to work & get the weekly shopping, 

They think we will a only be paying an EXTRA FIVER on our domestic Electricity Bill to do exactly the same when we drive EV cars. 

 

They must have just fallen out of a Tree!

 

No UK Government can afford to loose a that lovely Taxation revenue that Petrol cars bring in every year without slapping it on the new fuel source.

 

Wouldn't it be a perfect world if it the fantasy could happen.

What's going to pay for the NHS, what's going to pay for new & repaired roads, what's going to pay for the unemployed, defence, etc: - another FIVER on all our Electricity Bills. 

@Ronn Did you notice that Scotland put the Oil & Gas revenue in the kitty of the UK and supposedly the under 6 million population gets back some charity hand out. Like the Tax / Duty on the alcohol that the treasury gets nice income from to keep the economy going around .

 

But Scotland has gone big on renewables, with money from the UK,  and can produce more electricity than the RoUK wants into the National Grid and Electricity storage other than Hydro or producing hydrogen is not enough and battery storage of renewables are required.

Cheap electricity will be available for EV charging in Scotland for a while, even though some councils have already stopped free charging.

As to the Low Emission Zones, and the banning of ICE Passenger cars in some city centres, that might be a while away, but not so long in some places.

 

 

Open your eyes to the cost of pollution and the cost on health. The cost to the NHS so to the public and tax payers.

Open your eyes to the Wealth Funds of Oil Producing Countries from Oil / Gas and minerals and the investments in Renewables and electric vehicles.

Also gen up on drinking water and where the Oil & Gas Billionaires have now invested. 

 

Norway is not stupid, they sell oil, gas / energy to others and make taxation high to run ICE vehicles in Norway.

 

But Oil & Gas will be a driving force for a long long time and gas is required to move oil, and diesel to move so much including diesel,

diesel is produced when producing petrol and petrochemicals.

The UK is importing shale gas now from the USofA as the UK requires it for refining.

The refiners like INEOS want Fracking to have the gas they need for cracking plants from the UK.

Then as far as electricity, a lot needs produced to refine petrochemicals.    

Grangemouth / INEOS has to generate more electicity than a city might use, but that is never going to change because petrochemical products will always be required, even to build vehicles

 

It is a case of what goes round goes round.  Nobody is stopping taking oil and gas out of the ground any time soon, but as for using it to heat houses or run passenger cars, 

then that is not going to be for ever.

 

Sometimes Granny maybe knows not to suck or blow eggs. Or their arse from their elbow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

Scotland! 

Say no more! (Eric Idle quote from Monty Python by the way).

 

You don't strike me as a 'eco warrior' Mr Skoffski.

 

But if you are, best of luck on you campaigning, I'm a pragmatist and prefer to live in the real world.

You were right, i am not an ECO warrior, just someone that knows a bit about oil and renewables because family work in the industries on and off shore.

So interested in things, and not blind to what is what in the land of plenty.

Campaigning has nothing to do with debating the positive or negatives of EV's, and discussing pollution and the economy, and the real world.

 

Left hand side says Wolverhampton.  Centre of England sort of place, and part of the UK's problem in the pollution levels.

I have been there,   they were wrong to brand it the 5th worst city on the planet, 2nd worst in the UK & the City Centre a Medieval Slum'  it just looked like many places i have been, a bit of a dump, there are worse in Scotland.

There were nice people.

Edited 11 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

I don't want the beautiful English countryside turned over to growing oil based plants to feed the motor industry, I prefer to get my oil from the Middle East and keep a shirt on the backs of our Arab  allies.

 

Regarding Wolverhampton, I never go there, - but, they have a bloody good footie team there I believe, according to Alan Shearer of MOTD fame.

 

We'll have much more money to spend on our inner cities & on our infrastructure, HS2, etc: after Brexit.

Wonder if Assange is a supporter of Brexit or HS2?

At least the UK authorities can ask him now, 1st time he's been available for comment on such subjects for 7 years.

Fancy living in 2 rooms for 7 years with a load of foreigners & not been able to get a decent bag of chips?

Sheer Hell I guess.

19 hours ago, Ronn said:

Scotland! 

Say no more! (Eric Idle quote from Monty Python by the way).

 

You don't strike me as a 'eco warrior' Mr Skoffski.

 

But if you are, best of luck on you campaigning, I'm a pragmatist and prefer to live in the real world.

 

 

neither am I an eco warrior but I am a pragmatist. I have an electric car because it is cheaper and more fun to drive. I also have a diesel camper van because it's not yet practical to have an electrically powered vehicle of that type. 

 

when something is killing our fellow citizens then I think looking realistically at alternatives rather than assuming the ostrich position makes sense. Replacing diesel trains with electric ones is sensible so why not do the same to as much road transport as we can. 

This week I have travelled on an electric bus, a hydrogen bus and a smelly 1970s diesel train back from London. Its days are numbered and it will soon be replaced by an electric train. No one in their right mind would be saying "no, keep the diesel trains please I'm a pragmatist" would they? 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44612642

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47882038

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/10/30-per-cent-child-asthma-cases-due-pollution-parts-uk/

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6907767/Traffic-related-air-pollution-causes-FOUR-MILLION-cases-asthma-year.html

 

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/scientists-say-air-pollution-kills-2635231

 

 

domhnall,

 

You have an EV because 'it is fun to drive'.

 

Come on!!!

EVs may be easy to drive, EVs may appeal to female drivers.

 

But fun to drive they are not!!!

 

No, No, No No.

 

Any vehicle with an auto box can NEVER be accused of being 'fun to drive'

 

Boring to drive YES, because total lack of involvment by the driver.

A great danger of falling asleep at the wheel I would say.

So, fun the drive No 

Exercising your left leg using a clutch at UK NSL's of 60mph of a great driving road does not make that much fun for a driving God / Godess.

It is nice keeping the foot down on the accelerator and getting in an out of a corner.

 

Try some of the EV's on the ECO tyres and you will see how much fun the can be, and that might be FWD and with the new VW EV's coming soon RWD.

That will be more involved driving for many than a City Car with FWD and 60 or 75ps.

 

The UP!MiiCitigo might have been a rear wheel drive is VW had carried on as they planned, than they would have been more like the Skoda's they speak about with 

Motorsport Heritage and Motorsport Success.  Small capacity petrol rear wheel drive cars.

 

The Renault Twingo (Smart) even with rear wheel drive and 2 pedals is a fun drive IMO.  In a way the UP! was to be with an engine at the rear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

@Ronn

I had a Toyota iQ which was about the best fun car i have had, and it was 2 pedals, and economic.  It was like driving an original Mini, which i had had with autoboxes and which i did Autotesting and Sprinting with.

It is a real pity that Toyota have not done an EV the size of the iQ, or just a IQ e-D.

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

domhnall,

 

You have an EV because 'it is fun to drive'.

 

Come on!!!

EVs may be easy to drive, EVs may appeal to female drivers.

 

But fun to drive they are not!!!

 

No, No, No No.

 

Any vehicle with an auto box can NEVER be accused of being 'fun to drive'

 

Boring to drive YES, because total lack of involvment by the driver.

A great danger of falling asleep at the wheel I would say.

So, fun the drive No 

Herr Skoffski,

 

That's the whole problem with trying to create a micro EV.

 

You've hit the Nagel on the Kopf.

 

You just can't do it!!!

 

Great little Internal Combustion powered micro cars that are fun to drive cannot be created in EV form!

 

Why (I hear you ask Herr Skoffski),

 

Because there's no where to put the BLOODY BATTERIES!!!!

 

Even if the did shoe horn the batteries in by some miracle of engineering, it would up set the balance & handling characteristics so badly, it would be like steering the Titanic when trying to avoid an Iceberg. 

'None as blind as those you will not see.'

I think if you put your skip cap on backwards and head off to a cruise tonight in a borrowed Zoe with the dudes from your hood the range of the EV and the handling will do you just fine from Nando's to Mickey D's.

You can hang out with the Corsa's & Fiestas and get your jollys.

 

 

Edited 13 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

Herr Skoffski,

 

Could you construct your replies in The Queens English?

 

Or, at least give a translation of you text.

Ignore me then you Grumpy Old Gadgie.  Press the ignore button, And keep up the cheeky stuff of females and others.

 

 

'None as blind as those you will not see.'

I think if you put your skip cap on backwards and head off to a cruise tonight in a borrowed Zoe with the dudes from your hood the range of the EV and the handling will do you just fine from Nando's to Mickey D's.

You can hang out with the Corsa's & Fiestas and get your jollys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

George I think you are being royally TROLLED.

I think @Ronn needs more posts in the Roadside Hotel section. Various threads there are just up his / her street.

1 minute ago, Skoffski said:

I think @Ronn needs more posts in the Roadside Hotel section. Various threads there are just up his / her street.

Should we encourage him to go up against the mighty LEE01.

Always up for a challenge to relieve the bordom in the Alzheimer Clinic.

Edited 13 April, 20197 yr by Ronn