OK, the result is in!

Firstly, thank you all for your comments and contributions. I have learnt a lot about my Octavia gearbox.

I took my Octavia to Murray's Skoda Plymouth today and they checked the handbrake.

Have to admit that the rolling road pass mark is 16% and mine scored 32%, so the problem is actually me!

It seems that the handbrake is exceedingly stiff at the top end and what really seemed to be full on was actually one notch short of optimum, so there is no problem after all. Except that SWMBO may not have enough muscle power to apply it fully, on the odd occasion it might be useful.

Have to admit that I am impressed by Murray's Skoda. Their sales person Natalie rang me yesterday, a courtesy call to see how I was getting on with the car and she then got on straight away to the service department to ensure they could check the car over when I arrived today. 

Then the After Sales Manager brought me a printout of the test, explained the results and advised me to get in touch if I had any further problems with the car.

Altogether a rather humbling, but informative visit.

10 hours ago, Changeman said:

 Then the After Sales Manager brought me a printout of the test, explained the results and advised me to get in touch if I had any further problems with the car.

Altogether a rather humbling, but informative visit.

 

So the main thing is its safe which puts aside any worries you had. 

 

Did they pass any comment about using the handbrake in D?  I've quoted this particular topic to maybe 15 or so people now and asked about using the hand brake whilst in D and none of them do or would.

1 minute ago, ScoutCJB said:

 

So the main thing is its safe which puts aside any worries you had. 

 

Did they pass any comment about using the handbrake in D?  I've quoted this particular topic to maybe 15 or so people now and asked about using the hand brake whilst in D and none of them do or would.

Yes they did, confirming the potential to burn out the clutch if using the handbrake when in D or R.

1 minute ago, Changeman said:

Yes they did, confirming the potential to burn out the clutch if using the handbrake when in D or R.

 

Cool beans - all sorted then.  Like I said main thing is that the cars fine and you've got piece of mind 

The few seconds of holding a car on the parking / handbrake as you have it on D on a slope as you wait for lights to change and you are not using the foot brake / hillhold control is not burning clutch packs on a 7 speed twin dry clutch DQ200 dsg let alone a 6 or 7 speed twin wet clutch DSG.

But if you do not want to and would never do it then obviously do not.

 

 

On 13/09/2018 at 21:54, Changeman said:

It seems that the handbrake is exceedingly stiff at the top end and what really seemed to be full on was actually one notch short of optimum, so there is no problem after all. Except that SWMBO may not have enough muscle power to apply it fully, on the odd occasion it might be useful.

My SWMBO has exactly the same problem on both our cars (Octavia and C1),she often complains that I put the handbrake on too tight but also complains that the handbrake won't hold the car on steep Devon hills when she uses it and can't understand why I idon'thave the sameproblem! Cake and eat it time...

 

Maybe an argument for Skoda to fit the EPB?

Hi Guys,

 

interesting thread.

 

I have over the last 40 years driven a whole range of vehicles including heavy plant, tractors, bikes, lorries and cars and my current Scout is the first one I've had with a DSG gearbox. You really do have to treat it like a hybrid between a traditional automatic and a manual. With the DSG, the only time that the gearbox and engine are truly disconnected are when it's in P or N or when you've got the footbrake depressed reasonably hard (I'm come back to this later). If you've been used to a traditional auto where you can hold it on the handbrake at traffic lights for example, this is not going to happen with the DSG. If you do try this then you've got to put the handbrake on really quite hard as it's straining against the clutch packs just as if you were in a manual and slipping the clutch against the brake. Do this for very long and you'll a. overheat the clutch packs and b. longer term, destroy them. Same as you would with a manual gearbox clutch.

 

Back to the foot brake. I've found that a light pressure on the brake will have the clutch packs partially engaged with the engine (2.0 TDI) idling at 1000rpm. As soon as I lighten the pressure at all on the brake the car will creep forward. Clearly the clutches are partially engaged. With a little firmer pressure, the idle drops to the normal (P or N) 750rpm and the clutch packs are completely disengaged. It's very subtle and seems to be linked into the auto stop-start as well (although mine's not working properly at the moment so it's difficult to be sure). Letting off the foot brake leads to a momentary delay before the car moves. This is the gearbox control sorting out the clutch engagement point again.  This is what you should really be doing when waiting at lights etc. - that or putting the car in N or P and the hand brake on, But then, certainly on the Scout, there's more of a delay and process than other traditional autos, to go through to change from N to D (footbrake on, gear lever move, handbrake off, wait for the gearbox to sort itself out!). Just a different technique that I'm getting used to.

 

For me, probably the biggest nuisance is having to press the footbrake before I can move the gearlever from N to D. This means that if you're waiting on a hill going down, you cannot just let the car roll in N and then at a suitable time snick it into Drive.

Edited 16 September, 20187 yr by Warthog
spelling!

23 minutes ago, Warthog said:

Hi Guys,

 

interesting thread.

 

I have over the last 40 years driven a whole range of vehicles including heavy plant, tractors, bikes, lorries and cars and my current Scout is the first one I've had with a DSG gearbox. You really do have to treat it like a hybrid between a traditional automatic and a manual. With the DSG, the only time that the gearbox and engine are truly disconnected are when it's in P or N or when you've got the footbrake depressed reasonably hard (I'm come back to this later). If you've been used to a traditional auto where you can hold it on the handbrake at traffic lights for example, this is not going to happen with the DSG. If you do try this then you've got to put the handbrake on really quite hard as it's straining against the clutch packs just as if you were in a manual and slipping the clutch against the brake. Do this for very long and you'll a. overheat the clutch packs and b. longer term, destroy them. Same as you would with a manual gearbox clutch.

 

Back to the foot brake. I've found that a light pressure on the brake will have the clutch packs partially engaged with the engine (2.0 TDI) idling at 1000rpm. As soon as I lighten the pressure at all on the brake the car will creep forward. Clearly the clutches are partially engaged. With a little firmer pressure, the idle drops to the normal (P or N) 750rpm and the clutch packs are completely disengaged. It's very subtle and seems to be linked into the auto stop-start as well (although mine's not working properly at the moment so it's difficult to be sure). Letting off the foot brake leads to a momentary delay before the car moves. This is the gearbox control sorting out the clutch engagement point again.  This is what you should really be doing when waiting at lights etc. - that or putting the car in N or P and the hand brake on, But then, certainly on the Scout, there's more of a delay and process than other traditional autos, to go through to change from N to D (footbrake on, gear lever move, handbrake off, wait for the gearbox to sort itself out!). Just a different technique that I'm getting used to.

 

For me, probably the biggest nuisance is having to press the footbrake before I can move the gearlever from N to D. This means that if you're waiting on a hill going down, you cannot just let the car roll in N and then at a suitable time snick it into Drive.

 

The  “DSG experience” seems much better with an electronic parking brake. Although it would have been so easy for the DSG to be “aware” of whether or not the manual parking brake is on or not, you would have thought.

 

Just on your last para, on my 2016  Superb at least, the need to press the brake to go from N to D only applies when stationary or very slow. Above a certain speed, (not sure, may be around 5 mph) you can move from N to D without pressing the brake. And even if below this speed, you only have to touch the brake very lightly, not enough to actually brake but just enough to put the brake lights on. Of course that will be a nuisance for anybody behind.

Thanks, I'll have to experiment further with the N to D transition on the move

The problem with sensing the Manual Parking Brake state (applied or not applied) is the amount of variation as we’ve seen with cable stretch, other halves who can’t apply it has hard etc that you’d really need to sense the application force on the disc/pad. With an Electronic Parking Brake the drivers command is Apply/Release and the Controller modulates the pressure to apply the Parking Brake. Not sure if this is Hydraulic or Electric Servo (my Qashqai was Servo I think) on VAG.

39 minutes ago, KevC_Derby said:

The problem with sensing the Manual Parking Brake state (applied or not applied) is the amount of variation as we’ve seen with cable stretch, other halves who can’t apply it has hard etc that you’d really need to sense the application force on the disc/pad. With an Electronic Parking Brake the drivers command is Apply/Release and the Controller modulates the pressure to apply the Parking Brake. Not sure if this is Hydraulic or Electric Servo (my Qashqai was Servo I think) on VAG.

 

When you park up the electric handbrake is servo motors on the rear wheels on VAG models.

 

But models with electric handbrake also have auto hold which keeps the car stationary even with the DSG in Drive. Auto Hold uses hydraulic pressure on all four brakes.

 

Autohold disengages the clutches when in Drive. Electric Parking Brake does not.

 

Lee

Edited 16 September, 20187 yr by logiclee

5 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

 

Autohold disengages the clutches when in Drive. Electric Parking Brake does not.

 

Lee

 

Yes it does. Well on mine, anyway.

7 hours ago, nicknorman said:

 

Yes it does. Well on mine, anyway.

 

Not on my Passat. If you turn auto hold off, manually engage the parking brake, put the gearbox in Drive it will fight against the handbrake.

 

Lee

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

Not on my Passat. If you turn auto hold off, manually engage the parking brake, put the gearbox in Drive it will fight against the handbrake.

 

Lee

Oh. Isn’t this a Skoda forum?!

 

But if you mean it’s an electronic parking brake then I’m surprised because you’d think it would be the same throughout the group. I’ve driven 3 Skoda with DSG / EPG (my Superb, a Fabia and a rapid) and they were all the same in that respect, but also all 2016 or newer.

Edited 17 September, 20187 yr by nicknorman

The beauty is if you have one or more car outside you can go drive them and see if they behave as others cars do driven as they describe.

Then you can say, mine does not do that or mine does, or mine did but now it is no longer set as it left the factory i made a mod to it.

 

Do the Rapid and Fabia with the DQ200 both have an e-brake and Autohold?

23 minutes ago, Offski said:

 

 

Do the Rapid and Fabia with the DQ200 both have an e-brake and Autohold?

No! Had what is commonly known as a brain fart (brain no good in the mornings!).

 

Delete Fabia and insert Karoq! And as to the Rapid, (courtesy car) now I think about it, can’t remember if it had EPB.

 

So what I should have said is that the Superb and Karoq with DSG and EPB, clutches remain disengaged when in D with EPB on. Both have Autohold.

Edited 17 September, 20187 yr by nicknorman

30 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No! Had what is commonly known as a brain fart (brain no good in the mornings!).

 

Delete Fabia and insert Karoq! And as to the Rapid, (courtesy car) now I think about it, can’t remember if it had EPB.

 

So what I should have said is that the Superb and Karoq with DSG and EPB, clutches remain disengaged when in D with EPB on. Both have Autohold.

 

Do you have autohold on or off?

38 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Do you have autohold on or off?

On nearly all the time, occasionally off. Doesn’t affect DSG with EPB on.