Soon to be son in law is a film sparks and is turning towards getting an EV as it can be realised how much saving can be done but range and costs to lease or whatever are a factor. Needs to carry quite a bit of tools sometimes so it might be an EV van rather than an EV car. Fast moving market and choices including a lwb Buzz perhaps.

20 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

I don't deny the many benefits of EVs and the great qualities they have, it's just at the moment they don't make sense for me and I can't emotionally connect to them in the slightest :(

No-one should have been or be forced to have one until they see it makes sense and works for them.

If we had left it to market forces I think there would be less resistance to the idea.

I wonder how many in the past said "That T'internet ain't coming in this house" "I'll never have a dish on my wall" "Mobile phone, what do you need a phone in your pocket for?"

Mandate ev take up immediately put a barrier around it.

5 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

It's almost ironic that I work in a tech-heavy industry and use a wide variety of electronic kit daily, both for work and my hobbies. I'm not so interested in being a server engineer or IT specialist, but these things do encroach on my job. But I can't really feel emotionally connected to EVs. I like the wheezy bang-bang of ICE cars :)

Not sure why. I've wondered if it comes from my youth? I remember when I left home at 19 y/o to find employment 150 miles away. The car gave me freedom and Independence, something I valued tremendously and have enjoyed for many decades. On my journey through life and on tarmac, I've had some great hot hatches, sports cars and such like and this has enforced a connection with the automobile that goes way beyond it being mere transport. It lives and breathes and talks to you as you drive it. Sometimes your car is a mad, frantic collie dog, sometimes a greyhound, sometimes a big fat Labrador (to use a weird analogy) but it responds to your commands and tells you how it feels moment by moment. Noise, vibration, power/torque curves, all feeding back to you in your joint experience, something that I find EVs simply lack. Going from A to B in silence and with great linear response, is very efficient, but sometimes less is not more and I don't want a totally subservient device on my travels, I want a partner, one with its own opinions and character. It makes life more interesting, even if it also brings many compromises. I think of it like a beautiful hand built wristwatch, It is more desirable than the undoubtedly more accurate and cheaper digital watch. As a time piece, the digital watch wins every day, to the micro second! But the craftsmanship of the beautiful hand built chronograph, is still more desirable for many people.

I don't deny the many benefits of EVs and the great qualities they have, it's just at the moment they don't make sense for me and I can't emotionally connect to them in the slightest :(

I'll be a petrol head to the day I die, I suspect, even if I end up with an EV one day.

I don't feel forced to be honest and indeed, dipped my toe in the waters by getting a PHEV (never again!) ICE cars will be around for many years yet, even if new ones, won't. I'm happy to buy something ICE powered and hanging on to it. I'm at an age that means I won't be here when combustion cars are totally phased out.

PHEV’s are borderline pointless you literally get the worst of both worlds.

The facts about fossil fuel use are out there and people have a choice and have still got years of that choice.

It would be nice if legislation wasn’t required but unfortunately it is, as is the case with most things.

History will have a chapter on where we are now, where people who’d only ever known the petrol and diesel way were reluctant to change. Future generations will have more of an incentive.

8 minutes ago, classic said:

History will have a chapter on where we are now, where people who’d only ever known the petrol and diesel way were reluctant to change. Future generations will have more of an incentive.

Many in this generation want to change away from ICE vehicles but are unable to do so without both some financial assistance (the latest Grant scheme is close to a farce) to lease/buy an EV suitable for their family, and a viable solution to allow those who have to park in the road to charge an EV.

Remember there is no right to park outside your property (as an example, I am very rarely able to park outside my fiancee's house, often 200 yards down the road!).

Edited 16 October, 202516 Oct by PetrolDave

7 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Many in this generation want to change away from ICE vehicles but are unable to do so without both some financial assistance (the latest Grant scheme is close to a farce) to lease/buy an EV suitable for their family, and a viable solution to allow those who have to park in the road to charge an EV.

Both are very valid barriers to full mass EV adoption, unlike "I like vrrom vroom".

I agree the latest grant is a farce. Too many conditions making it a lot of guesswork, the lower amount is too small. But the higher amount does make a noiceable change to leasing cost, eg. Ford Puma.

Out of interest, what sort of incentive or financial assistance are you envisioning?

Absolutely spot on Dave and the government should be doing something to rectify that. They probably would say they are, but I don’t see it.

Build more charging stations, bring the price down, put in 7kwh ac chargers in as many places as possible.

People that want EVs but are restricted by infrastructure should write to their MPs etc.

We are at the point where the government is only really playing at it so their bit in the history books doesn’t look too bad, even the Tories brought in pro EV legislation, I reckon 25 more years of limbo maybe less if technology produces a mega fast charging battery that does 500 miles and can tow a 2000kg trailer.

Edited 16 October, 202516 Oct by classic

The government should also be incentivising EV apprenticeships and training existing mechanics. It’s all just left to the dealers who are hedging their bets on whether the whole thing really takes off.

As owner, I'm of the opinion build them and they will come. a LOT more universal 7 kW road side charging (not like one that require a giant lance I tested).

Hotel charging should be widely and readily available so away-from-home charging doesn't require visiting rapid chargers (also enable more EV miles on PHEV). Government grants to solve those will remove both charging cost concern (if no driveway) and ease of charging concern (if no driveway).

Totally agree for EV apprenticeship. Currently got a knocking sound with my Leaf and many local garages only wiggle suspension parts and refuse to look further, "don't have the training, so we don't touch any parts connected by orange wires". It now has to go back to main dealer to diagnose extensively.

31 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Out of interest, what sort of incentive or financial assistance are you envisioning?

Initial thought, all EVs get the higher level grant and all forms of purchase and lease have 0% interest with a deposit of no more than 10%, plus introduce a vehicle scrappage scheme for ICE cars (this allowed me to change from a 12 year old car to a new one back in 2021). Costs to be met by increasing the tax burden on all those paying higher rates of income tax.

This would make the entry, and ongoing lease/purchase, costs affordable to many more people currently running cheap ICE cars and no/limited savings and limited disposable income.

We need to do something to make EVs affordable to all if we really are serious about net zero.

On 16/10/2025 at 11:29, PetrolDave said:

Initial thought, all EVs get the higher level grant and all forms of purchase and lease have 0% interest with a deposit of no more than 10%, plus introduce a vehicle scrappage scheme for ICE cars (this allowed me to change from a 12 year old car to a new one back in 2021). Costs to be met by increasing the tax burden on all those paying higher rates of income tax.

This would make the entry, and ongoing lease/purchase, costs affordable to many more people currently running cheap ICE cars and no/limited savings and limited disposable income.

We need to do something to make EVs affordable to all if we really are serious about net zero.

One problem with this is those with salaries between £50k and £100k are good at, and government make it easy to avoid paying the 40% income tax, and even the 2% NI levy. Even more so for those on 100k to 125k where the effective tax rate is over 50%.

Make NI non exemptable from Salary Sacrifice would be a start.

Not sure if this is the best thread to use or not but I'm just looking at the EON Next Drive Smart tariff which has a 6.5p/kWh charging rate from 00.00-06.00 but also offers smart charging outside of this time at the same rate and says you also get the cheap rate for your house as and when you are smart charging.

Just interested to know if anyone knows how this works in practice to see if I'll likely be able to take much advantage of the cheap rate for household usage too. I don't need to charge much at home but could change this a bit if it meant I could drop my bill a bit.

7 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

Not sure if this is the best thread to use or not but I'm just looking at the EON Next Drive Smart tariff which has a 6.5p/kWh charging rate from 00.00-06.00 but also offers smart charging outside of this time at the same rate and says you also get the cheap rate for your house as and when you are smart charging.

Just interested to know if anyone knows how this works in practice to see if I'll likely be able to take much advantage of the cheap rate for household usage too. I don't need to charge much at home but could change this a bit if it meant I could drop my bill a bit.

Interesting idea but would the extra daytime be hourswhen plugged in or only when plugged in charging.

Because there is a limit on what charging you can do i.e once it's 100% if the lower rate stops.

This would also be detrimental to your Battery over time.

6 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Interesting idea but would the extra daytime be hourswhen plugged in or only when plugged in charging.

I think the latter but could be wrong. I assumed when you plugged it in, set the charging % and timer needed it will give you a schedule and then you can adjust your other stuff to suit but was hoping someone might be able to confirm.

You can set the 'ready time' for between 4 & 11am I think.

8 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

This would also be detrimental to your Battery over time.

Less of a concern overall as its only on a 3 year salary sacrifice lease.

3 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

I think the latter but could be wrong. I assumed when you plugged it in, set the charging % and timer needed it will give you a schedule and then you can adjust your other stuff to suit but was hoping someone might be able to confirm.

This is exactly how it works. I'm on IOG.

From what I've read, EOn are using Octopus' Kraken backend, so it is highly likely it will work similar to Intelligent Octopus Go (IOG).

E.ON Next and Kraken partner to lower energy bills for customers | E.ON News

1. You set how much % you want to add if it's charge point connecting to supplier; you set target % SoC if car is connected.

2. You set ready by time

3. Plug in if not already plugged in

4. Supplier sets charging schedule. You can change settings at any time for re-roll.

It will never override car charge limit. For example, if your car limit is set to 80%, only really need 50% replenished, but tell supplier you want 100%. Supplier will schedule as such, giving more cheaper electricity during late evening. But car will prevent it from charging further once car hits 80%. However, supplier will know because it checks charge point logs to ensure charging has started, and it is against T&C (at least for IOG).

I have Home Assistant set up to relay how much % Tesla needs to IOG. So that every time I only need to plug in. But I think as long as it's in the ballpark should be fine. Or simply leave it on something like 70% should be roughtly there, you'll rarely arrive home at 0%.

14 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

This is exactly how it works. I'm on IOG.

From what I've read, EOn are using Octopus' Kraken backend, so it is highly likely it will work similar to Intelligent Octopus Go (IOG).

E.ON Next and Kraken partner to lower energy bills for customers | E.ON News

1. You set how much % you want to add if it's charge point connecting to supplier; you set target % SoC if car is connected.

2. You set ready by time

3. Plug in if not already plugged in

4. Supplier sets charging schedule. You can change settings at any time for re-roll.

It will never override car charge limit. For example, if your car limit is set to 80%, only really need 50% replenished, but tell supplier you want 100%. Supplier will schedule as such, giving more cheaper electricity during late evening. But car will prevent it from charging further once car hits 80%. However, supplier will know because it checks charge point logs to ensure charging has started, and it is against T&C (at least for IOG).

I have Home Assistant set up to relay how much % Tesla needs to IOG. So that every time I only need to plug in. But I think as long as it's in the ballpark should be fine. Or simply leave it on something like 70% should be roughtly there, you'll rarely arrive home at 0%.

Thanks, that's useful.

Not sure if it makes any difference but as far as I can make out EON connects to your car rather than your charger (at least at this point).

For car integration with supplier, you wouldn't need to do anything with the app if your ready-by time never changes. Simply plug in and they take care of everything.

Make sure to leave charge point in dumb "charge any time" mode. IOG (or EOn) will poll the car and work out it has plugged in, stop the charge and create a schedule.

I have a thread that I keep up to date on SpeakEV for all the lowest EV specific tariffs if it's of any use

List of EV Tariff for 2.5p/mile motoring | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums

He is now officially an EVangalist !

Stopping at Newport Pagnell because he needed a break and didn’t even charge the car. Charged at Sheffield Porsche, then stopped twice more for his own personal needs with no car charge. Could have done it without stopping for charge if he’d had 100% at the start in London but he started with 59%.

On 13/10/2025 at 21:18, Lady Elanore said:

As I've said before, I am time poor in my job and do not want to stop whilst travelling and also charging away from home as I would have to do frequently, would make an EV cost similar to running a diesel or economical petrol car (assuming some recharging at home). So the way I see it, there is no financial advantage,

sponsored by Tena? 🤣

7500 miles between Jan and mid August (was away for most of july with no car so in reality this is 7 months of data) , total cost of public and home charging £230. That is basically just over 2 fill ups in my diesel so roughly 900 miles or so in the diesel. I call that a finanical advantage

Bargain running the prestige company car.

All i can see on this here video is what it might of cost a private individual Leasing a car for their own use, and not tax breaks from HMRC / the general public.

Edited 4 November, 20254 Nov by Evolution13

Unable to charge last night @ cheaper 50 pence a kWh which would have been 5 hours for 32 kWh & £15.50 as charger not working and it was pithing down and i was not walking in that for 5 minutes or more.

So on the 50 kW DC this morning at 70 pence a kWh. There is a Max 60 minutes stay time.

32 kWh £22.40

That is good for 110 miles or so.

The 40% / 20 kWh in the battery before charging was bought at 61 pence a kWh.

£12.20

***So £34.60 for maybe 170 miles.***

20% of that VAT. £1.98 & £3.71 = £5.69.

If an ICE getting 45 mpg & 135 pence a liter that would be 3.7 Gallons / 17 liter'is, £22.70

......................................

That charging at home would be 52 kWh @ 6.7 pence so £3.50. 5% being VAT.

Rumour / word on the street / & in the Media. PAY PER MILE over and above the common ridiculous Public Charging tariffs with the 20% VAT.

They are not all in it together in Politics, Government, Parliament they are on paid for travel expenses and out of touch with the real world.

Edited 7 November, 20257 Nov by Evolution13

On 07/11/2025 at 08:45, Evolution13 said:

Unable to charge last night @ cheaper 50 pence a kWh which would have been 5 hours for 32 kWh & £15.50 as charger not working and it was pithing down and i was not walking in that for 5 minutes or more.

So on the 50 kW DC this morning at 70 pence a kWh. There is a Max 60 minutes stay time.

32 kWh £22.40

That is good for 110 miles or so.

The 40% / 20 kWh in the battery before charging was bought at 61 pence a kWh.

£12.20

***So £34.60 for maybe 170 miles.***

20% of that VAT. £1.98 & £3.71 = £5.69.

If an ICE getting 45 mpg & 135 pence a liter that would be 3.7 Gallons / 17 liter'is, £22.70

......................................

That charging at home would be 52 kWh @ 6.7 pence so £3.50. 5% being VAT.

Rumour / word on the street / & in the Media. PAY PER MILE over and above the common ridiculous Public Charging tariffs with the 20% VAT.

They are not all in it together in Politics, Government, Parliament they are on paid for travel expenses and out of touch with the real world.

2028 implementation?

Starting low and ramping up.

I will get my tax avoidance head on to circumvent or at least reduce exposure to it.

Wonder if motorcycles would be included in any pay per mile scheme. Or trikes.

Be interested to see any actual government details rather than right wing media speculation.

I have been using Tesla chargers for the past couple of weeks because not off my route. 'Much cheapness' as far as Public charging. 00.00-04.00 28 pence a kWh. 04.00-09.00 36 pence a kWh. 09.00-20.00 56 pence a kWh. 20.00-00.00 36 pence a kWh. For the next few days i am going away i will be charging at Instavolt because next to where i am staying and 60 pence a kWh using the App from 8.00 pm - 7.00 am.

Edited 21 February21 Feb by Evolution13

Dave Takes it on summarizing just what a fraud PHEVs are for many/most people .......

Time will tell just how long until tariffs are increased at Public Chargers if they do increase due to the current and ongoing things elsewhere in the world. Those with Home Fixed Tariffs might be OK for a while. I have a fixed Next Drive tariff until July & it will just be a case of seeing where things get to with the cost of Electricity. Maybe the rises will be no worse than liquid road fuels.