27 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Public charging at under 50 pence a kWh is comparable to me using an ICE car.

The home charging and having charges at home makes the charging over 50 pence a kWh to as much as 79 pence OK, just but being able to get the Tesla charging in Scotland really helps. 

 

 

Tesla none Tesla charging off peak is costing me 48 pence a kWk at present. 

10 kWh £4.80,   3.7 miles a kWh = 37 miles.

 

30 kWh £14.40.  111 miles. 

...............

 

South Ayrshire Council chargers,

I have charged twice yesterday and today @ 37 pence a kWh, Minimum charge £5.

So 14 kWh = £5.18.

14 x 3.7 = 51.8 miles. 

28 kWh = £10.36

30 kWh £11.10   111 miles.

 

(AC charging 7 or 11 kW is 31 pence a kWh,

30 kWh, £9.30)

 

Home charge tariff.

6.7 pence a kWh. 

30 kWh = £2.01.   Local use maybe 90 miles and on a run 105-115 miles

 

....................

Unleaded 139.9 pence a liter.   £6.36 a gallon.  110 miles at 45 mpg = £15.54

Diesel 144.9  pence a liter.        £6.59 a gallon.   110 miles at 55 mpg =  £13.18

 

See what the budget in an hours time does for this. 6p a litre if the previously introduced 5p reduction in excise is scrapped as RAC mentioned should happen.

 

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

See what the budget in an hours time does for this. 6p a litre if the previously introduced 5p reduction in excise is scrapped as RAC mentioned should happen.

 

She says she will freeze fuel duty next year and will maintain the existing 5p cut for another year, too. There will be no higher taxes at the petrol pumps next year, she says

Very small budget changes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxl1zd07l1o

 

For transport:

Quote

• £2 cap on single bus fares in England to rise to £3 from January

• 5p cut to fuel duty on petrol and diesel, due to end in April 2025, kept for another year

 

Considering falling inflation projected, I'd have thought 2025 is the right time to scrap the fuel duty discount.

 

Interesting nothing for EV's. I'd happily pay a slowly increasing duty for my use of EV. It is important introduction of any EV equivalent fuel duty is not a hit to the gut and thus affect the transition. I'd rather them announce something a few years beforehand.

 

From official budget doc:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6722120210b0d582ee8c48c0/Autumn_Budget_2024__print_.pdf

 

So they are hitting the new car buyers, a tiny discourage purchase of brand new ICE by increasing the single one-off first year rate. For new car buyers, it's not going to move the needle IMO.

 

Interesting it does include a statement regarding needing to up expensive car supplement threshold for ZEV. But this is the absolute definition of kicking the can down the road.

14 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

From official budget doc:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6722120210b0d582ee8c48c0/Autumn_Budget_2024__print_.pdf

 

So they are hitting the new car buyers, a tiny discourage purchase of brand new ICE by increasing the single one-off first year rate. For new car buyers, it's not going to move the needle IMO.

 

Interesting it does include a statement regarding needing to up expensive car supplement threshold for ZEV. But this is the absolute definition of kicking the can down the road.

 

Thanks the above.

 

£110 in second year beyond is cool.

Presumably be just under a tenner per month with ice and even hybrids paying nearly twice this.

 

Happy to pay some tax for the EVs.

Might take the off the road for February and put back on in March if the "retaxing" does not work for my two September anniversary cars.

 

Q."When is your cars birthday ? "

 

A  September 15 th.

 

Q. which year ?

 

A. Every year !

 

(Hot Fuzz in the pub Sgt Angel questioning under age drinkers).

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Thanks the above.

 

£110 in second year beyond is cool.

Presumably be just under a tenner per month with ice and even hybrids paying nearly twice this.

 

Happy to pay some tax for the EVs.

Might take the off the road for February and put back on in March if the "retaxing" does not work for my two September anniversary cars.

 

Q."When is your cars birthday ? "

 

A  September 15 th.

 

Q. which year ?

 

A. Every year !

 

(Hot Fuzz in the pub Sgt Angel questioning under age drinkers).

 

 

 

The rates in 5.86 are for "at first registration"

 

All other rates for 2nd year on will go up with rpi.

 

5.85 2025-26 Vehicle Excise Duty rates for cars, vans and motorcycles – The
government will uprate standard Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) rates for cars, vans and
motorcycles, excluding first year rates for cars, in line with the RPI from 1 April 2025.

 

 

So post 2017 cars will be £195

Edited 30 October, 20241 yr by Stonekeeper

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

http://cargurus.co.uk/Cars/articles/most-efficient-electric-cars

 

12 hours ago, Ootohere said:

http://cargurus.co.uk/Cars/articles/most-efficient-electric-cars

 

You don't have anything to say about Corsa being 4th?

@wyx087  They should be efficient being the lightest and lowest but my one certainly was not and that was the smaller battery so lighter.  That was why i went for it. 

It did have 17" wheels / tyres and not the narrower 16". (And i had All Seasons or winter tyres on.)

It was not good the first week i had it on the Primacy 4,s it came with.

So i seriously doubt what it shows there.

 

Maybe the more power helped and they changed how they regen with the bigger battery.

 

The efficient Stallantis car back 2 years ago was the Citroen C4 on 18" wheels. I tried one and it was easy to get more miles per kWh. 

Edited 2 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

8 hours ago, wyx087 said:

You don't have anything to say about Corsa being 4th?

 

New Fiat Grand Panda, cheap price but no heat pump so not going to be great in winter like other Stellantis cars.

 

Late to the party and with a mediocre offering ?

 

 Stellantis still in lots of trouble it seems. Peugeots not performing well in winter test I see from the Norwegian winter test recently released.  Then not was TESLA oddly ie over 100 miles short of WLTP.

 

These changes were in 2022. 

& This was before the bigger batteries and more powerful motots.

 

At the price i would not care about a heat pump.  If using as a local run around and home/ work charging heat it while plugged in.

Ideal for Fleets, Utilities, Councils, NHS etc etc. Plug and play. 

KISS, Steel wheels were something many specced for Employees cars being used many.  Easy to just drive.

^^^ Look as he turns on the car at 1 minute 38 seconds.   

He has the AC left turned on from parking the car.  Green light. /  That will knock the estimated range down by 15-20 miles at the temperature when starting the car. Turn AC off and you see the Range go up. HE HAS THE AC right through the video.

100 % would be 100-104 miles for me at -Minus 15*oC.  and 11% maybe 9 miles without AC on.  He is getting just that in km.

 

 

 

Edited 3 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Winter efficiency seems to depend heavily on driving pattern. 

 

My parents' new Kona EV 39 kWh are supposed to be very efficient, but only managing 3 mi/kWh over multiple short journey in the first week. So 100 miles reliable any weather range with some remain for plan B. They only do very short journey, a few miles here and there every other day. When sitting in the car configuring stuff, can see SoC drop as cabin heats up. 

 

Leaf I no longer track data due to CarWings shutdown. But guess-o-meter seems to think ~80% means 30 miles in coldest days with 3 bars on the battery. Still perfectly fine for the range wife is willing to drive, she doesn't drive beyond local familiar roads. Remain is used up daily for V2H, I figure it's easier to change a 10 yo car than call specialised electrician to change battery on the wall. 

 

My MY lifetime data goes as low as 3.11 mi/kWh average over one winter month, vs 4 mi/kWh in summer. Taken out Dec 2023 where I had extra annual leave drove it local use only while Leaf was parked up doing V2H, average efficiency for the month dropped down to 2.9 mi/kWh. All other months I used it for my commute and Leaf doing all the local runs. 

 

78% range drop winter vs summer month averages for same use pattern. 

I'm pretty sure diesel would get similar. I seems to recall mid 40 mpg in winter and high 50 in summer with Octavia 2.0 TDI on same commute 58 miles return. 

The MINI has been 3.1 miles a kWh based on the Gross battery 33 kW/h and not the usable over the first and 2nd winter, and 3.9 - 4 miles a kWh is about it in warmer weather but below 20*oC.  Hotter than that is better and maybe 4.5 as a max but that is much slower roads.  Or coming down from the hills, like Braemar towards the sea and 50 plus miles.

The past 600 miles in the Electric MINI had cost me in electric the same as if I was driving a Petrol car / MINI getting 50 mpg due to being able to use cheaper Public Chargers. Previous trips using more expensive chargers has been as much as d 25% more expensive than an ICE vehicle

Recent charging had been the 110 miles or so first full charge at 6.7 pence a kWh. Then near 50 pence to 62 pence a kWh. The cheapest being 47 pence on a 11 kW AC charger. When it is 70-85 pence Publjc charging then cheaper to use an ICE. It is a small battery so only about 33 kWh from a home charge. About 3.3 miles to a kWh on longer trips of mixed roads.

1st April 2025 increased Public Charging tariffs. Do you know of any?

Osprey Network increase is 3.8% tomorrow. from 79 pence to 82 pence a kWh.

I paid 79 pence a kWh last week at MFG. 23 kWh £18.17, 3.3 miles a kWh 76 miles or maybe a bit more.

(90 minutes max at a charger bay. a DPD Van driver was there only 55 minutes but was back taking pictures of the notice and was on his phone to them, they had charged £100 penalty as well as his 55 minutes worth of charging.

---

Wright's Bakeries seem to be going into Filling station, replacing Greggs someplaces.

Pretty good value IMO. Coffee and a Bacon Roll with a nice Bap / roll. £2.75.

..........................

I might have to use MFG again tomorrow for being near Edinburgh Airport, or Edinburgh City Council Rapids @ 58 pence if i get on one that is working.

23 kWh would be £13.34 for 76 miles.

Scottish Councils might well have increased EV charging tariffs coming in April or some a bit later in the year.

70 pence seems to becoming pretty standard per kWh on a 50 kW DC charger.

Edited 31 March, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Gridserve making prices variable depending on location:

Pricing update on the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway | GRIDSERVE

Tesla prices haven't changed, peak price still in 40-50p range, but peak time period has been increased massively to be from 8/9am to 7/8/9pm. Depend on location.

Before, driving day time is easy to avoid peak prices and pay sub 40p. Now unless driving over night, pretty much guarentee paying peak pricing.

Edited 31 March, 20251 yr by wyx087

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Gridserve making prices variable depending on location:

Pricing update on the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway | GRIDSERVE

Tesla prices haven't changed, peak price still in 40-50p range, but peak time period has been increased massively to be from 8/9am to 7/8/9pm. Depend on location.

Before, driving day time is easy to avoid peak prices and pay sub 40p. Now unless driving over night, pretty much guarentee paying peak pricing.

AC chargers to stay at 49p per kwh.

Would like to see even more 11, 16 or 22 kw chargers.

One can save so much money, if one has the time to kill, one can save enough to pay for coffees or even food if one is hanging around for an hour or two. Might well be using more AV from the Gridserve chargers.

I've just done my annual calculation of overall cost to charge, which I do on the car's birthday. Last year I did 12017 miles at an average cost of 3.53p/mile. Most charging was done at home and getting onto Octopus Intelligent Go in December has helped enormously to reduce that down from 5.96p/mile for 23/24. (although that higher figure includes 2500 miles around France on public charger rates.)

Additional costs this year has been the biennial service @£170 and MOT.

Edited 2 April, 20251 yr by Luckypants

Bi-annual or Biennial?

Servicing costs £340 per year or £85 per year?

The latter I hope!

According to my data logger, I've charged 6930 kWh. 550 kWh of which not at home. So let's be really pessimistic and say average of 60p/kWh (I mostly use Tesla superchargers at daytime offpeak <40p/kWh), rest let's say 8p/kWh (IOG is 7p/kWh).

I averaged 3.92 p/mile, 3.1 mi/kWh gross

(including not driving such as sentry mode that is always on, sitting in the car parked, any consumption when in P)

£0 spent on servicing so far. I DIY'd a tyre rotation front and rear. I have wipers at £25 a set ready but not fitted yet. Some washer fluids at a few £.

MOT due Sep this year, I do plan to carry out an end of warranty check next spring. "Just Get A Tesla" youtuber recently done it on his with good results.

14 hours ago, J.R. said:

Bi-annual or Biennial?

Servicing costs £340 per year or £85 per year?

The latter I hope!

Every two years. So biennial it turns out. Thanks for educating me.

13 hours ago, wyx087 said:

According to my data logger, I've charged 6930 kWh. 550 kWh of which not at home. So let's be really pessimistic and say average of 60p/kWh (I mostly use Tesla superchargers at daytime offpeak <40p/kWh), rest let's say 8p/kWh (IOG is 7p/kWh).

I averaged 3.92 p/mile, 3.1 mi/kWh gross

(including not driving such as sentry mode that is always on, sitting in the car parked, any consumption when in P)

£0 spent on servicing so far. I DIY'd a tyre rotation front and rear. I have wipers at £25 a set ready but not fitted yet. Some washer fluids at a few £.

MOT due Sep this year, I do plan to carry out an end of warranty check next spring. "Just Get A Tesla" youtuber recently done it on his with good results.

I just log my charging versus miles from odometer, like I did for ICE. Basically I measure everything going into the car, so it includes costs for pre-heating, heating, data, app control, charging losses, heat losses etc. My miles per kWh is often lower than those claimed by others who just use the car stats. For instance I just reset my long term trip which was measuring winter consumption... according to that the car did 3.2 miles/kWh over 5400 miles.... my spreadsheet says its more like 2.7 based on kWh charged.

Indeed, there's quite a lot of other losses that is not "driving efficiency".

For example in summer, I can see cabin overheat protection take off up to 4% a day. This is not counted in driving efficiency.

My data is all energy that went into the battery, there may still be a few % of charging loss. But it is certainly more accurate than just looking at what the car records during driving.

Energy at point of dispense is the true measurement if we want to get true costs. That's why I had been super pessimistic in my numbers.