.

.

Cost to charge, off peak, home work maybe 7 pence a kWh or even less. 6.2 pence.

Public Charging , Ultra Rapid maybe 60 pence to 90 pence. Loads of money. More than running a diesel if it is just fuel cost. But if the EV is much more efficient and get near 6 miles to a kWh then things get better / less expensive..

500 miles divided by 85 kWh is 5.8 miles a kWh.

Lovely if that is what the minimum efficiency was, loaded, cold weather etc.

Long range so longer time between charges is not worth that much if the car is not comfortable for hours of non stop driving. IMO.

So 473 miles....

Now we are at 5.56 miles a kWh, WLTP. Not real world.

I would have one just on looks.

But it would need to be comfy for 3 hours without getting out, then comfy for another 3 after an hour or so of a break. 150 miles then another 150 miles. That is a 7 hour trip.

Edited 17 July, 202517 Jul by Ootohere

Very detailed look from autogufuhl...

I like the shooting brake, but I have VW means but Mercedes taste!

Edited 17 July, 202517 Jul by Luckypants

Just coming on here for a bit of a boast really. 😀

Just completed my July stats for the ID.4 and my average is 4.02 miles/kWh this month, measured as what went in, not what the car says it achieved. That bloody good for a big bus. So 4.02 miles/kWh over 987 miles with average cost of 2.17p/mile, total cost of £21.40. That cost includes one Tesla super-charge as we were not able to charge overnight on one trip away. (more on this later).

Yesterday, due to an impromptu trip to the seaside, I ran the car down to 1% SoC and 2 miles of range. I left it for a couple of hours before charging to allow the car to sleep and allow the BMS to balance up the cells - SoC recovered to 3% and 9 miles of range. I then charged to 80%. By extrapolating the charge into the car I see my battery still has around 74kWh net capacity from the original 77kWh after 4.5 years and 56K miles. Not too shabby.

Its not all been good news on the EV front this month. I needed a new N/S/F tyre after spotting the cords were showing on the inside edge. Turns out the cords were exposed by a deformation of the tyre, most likely from pot-hole damage. My tyre guy said those deformations can lead to rapid wear which is what had happened here. I'm glad I spotted it as we were about to get on the motorway with both my grandchildren aboard and the thought of a blowout chills me.

The other potentially expensive item this month is that the car succumbed to the well known VAG fuel flap stuck issue. The fuel flap locking mechanism seizes up due to water ingress to the solenoid. This is worse on EVs than fossil cars due to the flap being open for charging much longer, so more water gets onto the locking pin. As soon as it happened, I knew the cause and was lucky in that I'd recently seen a how-to video on fixing it. As we were 130 miles from home I called the RAC as I needed a charge to get home. The RAC managed to open the flap without too much damage to the flap and body coloured cover with some handy tips from me. This is what led to the 'expensive' Tesla Charge this month. The complete charge flap has now been replaced by VW under Extended Warranty, so hopefully this problem will not appear again in my ownership. If it does, I know exactly how to fix it.

Edited 1 August, 20251 Aug by Luckypants

A Skoda Superb camera car used.

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Edited 4 September, 20254 Sep by Ootohere

20 hours ago, Ootohere said:

A Skoda Superb camera car used.

.

Doo love these Carwow videos.

An earlier one from a couple of years ago helped confirm my choice for the Zoe as a decent ranged car.

Like Matt's intro ie drive them with no care for range until the warn of low battery then ECO drive.

In reality semi to full intelligent drivers back off at battery three quarters to half full if range is a bit short. Drop down to a true 65 mph, probably still indicating about 67 mph and one will get more range than driving at 70 mph but lose little time. If one wants to drive long distance frequently then a Polestar or Tesla seems the logical choice or there are some stonking Chinese saloons here now and more on the way. Driving SUVs, electric or non electric, is not ideal if more than half of ones driving is Motorway or fast A road.

Always interesting and the improvement year on year is staggering whilst the range of ICE cars has been going down year on year mostly due to smaller fuel tanks. The days of my 1,000 mile A4 with its incredible 1.9PD engine are long gone. Well done Nissan with its e-power but need to look in to that as it sounds too good to be true. John O'Groats to Lands end with 100M still in the tank, wow.

Edited 5 September, 20255 Sep by lol-lol

After such a long drive, it's also good to see them showing people needed refuelling before the cars.

I personally don't feel tests like these are a fair representation of EV vs ICE. Especially them only looking at aging rebranded Gridserve rapid chargers at motorway services and not showing a map where as well as others, Tesla superchargers are often within 5min off motorway in some posh hotel car parks.

What they need to do is also start doing MPG comparison between latest ICE vehicles and their claimed MPG figures. It's all well and good putting a big % against claimed range, showing there is a shortfall in EV's. But many people don't realise the claimed range is from standard testing, just like claimed MPG and it is more of an ideal figure more for comparison.

Finally, from my experience using the frunk in Volvo EX40. I am seeing similar traditional bonnet double latch and frunk lid situation in many of those cars. It's a total faff having to go to a specific door to open the bonnet, find the latch and open another lid to access the funk. It's as though those legacy manufacturers are still using ICE bonnet parts. Such stupidity, one of the reason I'm not intested in cars from any legacy ICE manufacturers anymore.

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

After such a long drive, it's also good to see them showing people needed refuelling before the cars.

I personally don't feel tests like these are a fair representation of EV vs ICE. Especially them only looking at aging rebranded Gridserve rapid chargers at motorway services and not showing a map where as well as others, Tesla superchargers are often within 5min off motorway in some posh hotel car parks.

What they need to do is also start doing MPG comparison between latest ICE vehicles and their claimed MPG figures. It's all well and good putting a big % against claimed range, showing there is a shortfall in EV's. But many people don't realise the claimed range is from standard testing, just like claimed MPG and it is more of an ideal figure more for comparison.

Finally, from my experience using the frunk in Volvo EX40. I am seeing similar traditional bonnet double latch and frunk lid situation in many of those cars. It's a total faff having to go to a specific door to open the bonnet, find the latch and open another lid to access the funk. It's as though those legacy manufacturers are still using ICE bonnet parts. Such stupidity, one of the reason I'm not intested in cars from any legacy ICE manufacturers anymore.

Range of my own "wee" tank is even less than the Mini Cooper E we have.

Public charging needs sorting out as it is spending fractured and expensive.

We need Ionity, Mer and of course Tesla Public V4 charging just to take over from the shower of the rest of them, undecided if Gridserve should be a survivor or a Zombie fit for the cull, sk we only have about 5 suppliers and get more of these non motorway places with coffee, loos etc at the sites, it's the model that works.

Edited 5 September, 20255 Sep by lol-lol

Just chiming in on costs as we've just come back from holiday to Northumberland. We covered 1305 miles with average consumption of 3.27 m/kWh (lowered by the return trip in the wind and rain yesterday 3.2 average for 240 miles). The total cost of electricity used including topping back up at home on return was £159.21, giving an overall cost per mile of 12.2p. That's pretty comparable to my Citigo petrol which is giving 11.9p/mile at current prices. My previous diesel Karoq would be about 13.6p/mile at current prices, so the ID.4 is still more economical using public chargers.

I used AC chargers while visiting attractions with prices down around 53p/kWh. We did a few rapid charges, Tebay services both going and coming home, two Tesla charges as they were the same price as A/C charging and an Ionity charge to test Plug and Charge. The Ionity charge was by far the most expensive.

I hope this is useful

On 21/09/2025 at 15:02, Luckypants said:

Just chiming in on costs as we've just come back from holiday to Northumberland. We covered 1305 miles with average consumption of 3.27 m/kWh (lowered by the return trip in the wind and rain yesterday 3.2 average for 240 miles). The total cost of electricity used including topping back up at home on return was £159.21, giving an overall cost per mile of 12.2p. That's pretty comparable to my Citigo petrol which is giving 11.9p/mile at current prices. My previous diesel Karoq would be about 13.6p/mile at current prices, so the ID.4 is still more economical using public chargers.

I used AC chargers while visiting attractions with prices down around 53p/kWh. We did a few rapid charges, Tebay services both going and coming home, two Tesla charges as they were the same price as A/C charging and an Ionity charge to test Plug and Charge. The Ionity charge was by far the most expensive.

I hope this is useful

Ionity doing a couple of subscriptions which effectively pay for themselves in 1 or two charges.....

I likkme their chargers and they are rolling out more location.

Magor near Newport Gwent is good and Gloucester coming soon.

Cannot beat Gridserve for performance and location and although not cheap the occasional £30 of charge is not killing me but my Scenic only has the smaller 60 or so kwh battery and I only charge to 90% as it slowed down to 30 kws then.

IONITY – Flexible EV charging su...

IONITY – Flexible EV charging subscriptions at fair rates

Charge more. Pay less. With IONITY Subscriptions. Sign up now via the IONITY app and pay 30% less for the first month. Save when charging your EV at over 700 fast charging stations across Europe. F...

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Ionity doing a couple of subscriptions which effectively pay for themselves in 1 or two charges.....

But a discount on a high starting point. The Ionity Motion sub brings the price down to around the same as Tesla PAYG price. The more expensive option Ionity Power would be worth it if charging a lot at Ionity. The main problem with Ionity for me is the lack of locations.

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

But a discount on a high starting point. The Ionity Motion sub brings the price down to around the same as Tesla PAYG price. The more expensive option Ionity Power would be worth it if charging a lot at Ionity. The main problem with Ionity for me is the lack of locations.

High price, was on Dartmoor last weekend, several of the chargers round there £1.08 per kwh, now that pricey and that was on slow, not fast, AC chargers. Place is a desert for EV chargers, 365 square miles with almost no chargers.

I dropped down in to Plymouth where there were 12 fab Gridserve chargers at the new M&S site on Crown Hill, so not so hard to drop down from The Moors down to there. Yes 79p per kwh but just charged from 24% to 90% and it cost less than £32 which is about half what I would pay for three quarters a tank of gas.

Thinking of both a Griserve and an Ionity card when I retire in a few weeks and do more travelling. Of course I would still hope to do 96% of charging at home or at a relatives and pay them so we both gain ie I pay them better than 30p a kwh so they make money and I save money.

Consolidation needed in the Public charging area in the UK. More than 85k chargers but just too many providers. There needs to be mergers. Mer look good but locally they have been vandalised ie robbed of their cables like thousands of other chargers and operator seems reluctant to repair until measures are taken to stop it happening again ie security systems, armored cable or whatever. Backed by Norwegian oil wealth fund so they have the resources but don't think they will repair until confident it is unlikely to happen again.

Ionity rolling out some new locations and particularly looking forward to the one at Hardwicke Gloucester plus several others. Smart in putting them near Maccy Dees where there is 24/7 activity and cameras and less chance ie more risk for thieves and vandals attaking the charging infrastructure....

EV Powered

Extra to boost motorway sites with nearly 200 new Ionity...

Motorway service operator Extra MSA plans to almost quadruple its EV charging provision within the next 16 months.

59 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

High price, was on Dartmoor last weekend, several of the chargers round there £1.08 per kwh, now that pricey and that was on slow, not fast, AC chargers. Place is a desert for EV chargers, 365 square miles with almost no chargers.

Yes here is definitely price gouging in remote areas. A new rapid charger has opened on the LLyn Peninsula, the only one on the peninsula and is 89p - but there are 22kW AC alternatives nearby to moderate the money grab.

Just now, Luckypants said:

Yes here is definitely price gouging in remote areas. A new rapid charger has opened on the LLyn Peninsula, the only one on the peninsula and is 89p - but there are 22kW AC alternatives nearby to moderate the money grab.

Most Renaults have had 22 kw charging capability but I gather this is being lost and going down to 11 kw due to the adoption of V2L capability.

I have used 16 kw as well as 11 kw but rarely found 22 kw that actually gives 22 even when labeled as such.

I have found AC quite difficult, or impossible sometimes to initiate and i am not always sure why it fails ie payment or the car setup.

But DC just seems to start right away as soon as it plugs in and that is great.

Hopefully will have a portable generator at sometime to work from home and to take with me for charging the EVs. Technology moving at such a pace.

This is interesting. Especially as a mile/cost figure is produced for not only a cheap home charge, but also a fast on the road type charge. One of the cars doesn't fair well against a 4.0 V8 beast in this regard!!! Would love to have seen the petrol car replaced with a frugal diesel, perhaps a 320D or some such. Anyhoo, it hasn't made me pine after an EV any more than before, but I doubt I ever will.

My takeaway from the video was that many EV can go 300 miles all day every day without needing to stop and re-energise. Whilst the similar performing (3.3s), more expensive (£122k) fossil car have to stop and refuel every other day. (300 miles a day)

Also, save people 1 hour:

Another point missed by carwow is things like this:

15 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Ionity doing a couple of subscriptions which effectively pay for themselves in 1 or two charges.....

The Tesla (and any other vehicle after paying a £10 monthly sub) at superchargers would have cost £30 to recharge, 40p/kWh, which translates to 9.16p/mile.

Range anxiety set in well before the cars ran out and even then some of them were totally stranded. Eco driving and hypermiling is something that some people actually enjoy, but I prefer to jump in and drive to my destination. I realise I'm going to have to change in this new world that is coming, but I will surely miss the old one :(

35 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

but I prefer to jump in and drive to my destination.

Which is what I did to go on holiday 4 weeks ago. Jumped in my fully charged car and drove 240 miles to our rented cottage.

We stopped for lunch, so I charged which is sensible when away from home but the car would have got there in one hit. We couldn't.

Without disclosing my travelling arrangements and job locations, I'm doing a job in the near future where an EV would be a nightmare for charging and distances covered. I do work rather long hours, though. Got a 17-18 hour day coming up shortly, for instance (including around 250 miles travelling - not at eco speeds). I'd need 100% charge for some of the days I work I'm sure and as I've shared cars with a colleague who drives a Taycan (big battery model) recharging can be a pain, even though it is a very fast charger, at least at first. Range is an issue. Although to be fair, so is reliability as it's been on the back of a low loader at least 3 times that I know of and back to Porsche a few times more. Beautifully built though Not sure if the Audi variants of this battery and engine combo are as unreliable? I assume the tech is shared?

On 02/10/2025 at 22:48, Lady Elanore said:

Without disclosing my travelling arrangements and job locations, I'm doing a job in the near future where an EV would be a nightmare for charging and distances covered. I do work rather long hours, though. Got a 17-18 hour day coming up shortly, for instance (including around 250 miles travelling - not at eco speeds). I'd need 100% charge for some of the days I work I'm sure and as I've shared cars with a colleague who drives a Taycan (big battery model) recharging can be a pain, even though it is a very fast charger, at least at first. Range is an issue. Although to be fair, so is reliability as it's been on the back of a low loader at least 3 times that I know of and back to Porsche a few times more. Beautifully built though Not sure if the Audi variants of this battery and engine combo are as unreliable? I assume the tech is shared?

I'm on my 2nd Enyaq - as ever with Skoda they have been utterly reliable. Just jumped in the car last week and drove from Edinburgh to near Utrecht in the Netherlands. We took the ferry from Newcastle rather than driving 11 hours to the South coast, but we could have made the journey without charging. We stopped for a toliet stop after 2 and a half hours so we plugged in while we went to the loo and grabbed a coffee. On the way home from Utrecht, zero charges and we had 40% left when we got home.

I could see me having an EV once I retire and give up on cars in general. At the moment they don't fit my needs and certainly don't align with my passions (ooh errr). I know there are many happy EV owners out there, but I won't be joining them any time soon (assuming my health and employment status don't change, of course).

As I've said before, I am time poor in my job and do not want to stop whilst travelling and also charging away from home as I would have to do frequently, would make an EV cost similar to running a diesel or economical petrol car (assuming some recharging at home). So the way I see it, there is no financial advantage, it would rob me of time and I find EVs souless, even though they may be a great conveyance in general terms. I also find their design in general, to be extraordinarily bland. I would much rather a Tesla 3 looked like the original Fiat Multipla, than the way it actually does, but that's personal taste of course (I thought my M3 - G80 - was a handsome car ).

It is interesting what puts people off EV.

The reality for most EV users is that use of rapids is not very often, so overall running costs are low, but I can see how if you were more dependent on them it would tip the scales towards staying with petrol or diesel.

I’ve been interested in cars and engines all of my life and went to work in the industry as a mechanic and have done various jobs on all types of vehicles.

I’m still fascinated by them and love classic vehicles (I could happily spend hours just listening to a Gardner 6LXB engine idling !) but driving around all day today in modern traffic in an EV is just a way better experience than petrol or diesel whether manual or automatic in my opinion. That is just driving around and not including the reduced fumes and CO2 and cheaper running costs.

And what is interesting is that I am the most tech-phobic Luddite in most other respects. It’s clearly a human thing like old trainspotters loving steam engines and hating diesel’s and electrics or people loving Spitfires and DC3s more than the Airbus they go on holiday in.

Spot on. Changes, removal of sound/harshness, should not automatically make the new tech a blasphemy to people who like the sound/harshness. The old can still be enjoyed in moderation as a hobby. No one is taking away motorsports or race tracks.

Of course, there's still a small percentage of drivers current EV are not suitable. But it's slowly getting there. The new Merc CLA is said to be very fast charging and also very efficient, achieving almost ICE travel time over 1000 km.

For charge pricing, Tesla vehicles or with their supercharging membership is always cheaper than driving ICE. Their peak price are all below 50p/kWh and cheapest off-peak is less than 30p/kWh.

Key, as always, is to get the majority of people's miles on electricity that can be renewably generated. The power plants emission can be centrally improved, don't have to wait 10+ years for an ICE car to be scrapped.

30 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Key, as always, is to get the majority of people's miles on electricity that can be renewably generated.

Renewable generation is problematic during an autumn/winter anticyclone like we have over the UK at the moment. I've been watching National Grid: Live for the last couple of days and so far today gas has provided around 70% of UK electricity generated with renewables down less than 15%.

We really need to move further and faster on both Grid battery storage and local micro nuclear if we are to stop burning gas without having grid failures.

10 hours ago, classic said:

And what is interesting is that I am the most tech-phobic Luddite in most other respects. It’s clearly a human thing like old trainspotters loving steam engines and hating diesel’s and electrics or people loving Spitfires and DC3s more than the Airbus they go on holiday in.

It's almost ironic that I work in a tech-heavy industry and use a wide variety of electronic kit daily, both for work and my hobbies. I'm not so interested in being a server engineer or IT specialist, but these things do encroach on my job. But I can't really feel emotionally connected to EVs. I like the wheezy bang-bang of ICE cars :)

Not sure why. I've wondered if it comes from my youth? I remember when I left home at 19 y/o to find employment 150 miles away. The car gave me freedom and Independence, something I valued tremendously and have enjoyed for many decades. On my journey through life and on tarmac, I've had some great hot hatches, sports cars and such like and this has strengthened a bond with the automobile that goes way beyond it being mere transport. It lives and breathes and talks to you as you drive it. Sometimes your car is a mad, frantic collie dog, sometimes a greyhound, sometimes a big fat Labrador (to use a weird analogy) but it responds to your commands and tells you how it feels moment by moment. Noise, vibration, power/torque curves, all feeding back to you in your joint experience, something that I find EVs simply lack. Going from A to B in silence and with great linear response, is very efficient, but sometimes less is not more and I don't want a totally subservient device on my travels, I want a partner, one with its own opinions and character. It makes life more interesting, even if it also brings many compromises. I think of it like a beautiful hand built wristwatch, It is more desirable than the undoubtedly more accurate and cheaper digital watch. As a time piece, the digital watch wins every day, to the micro second! But the craftsmanship of the beautiful hand built chronograph, is still more desirable for many people.

I don't deny the many benefits of EVs and the great qualities they have, it's just at the moment they don't make sense for me and I can't emotionally connect to them in the slightest :(

I'll be a petrol head to the day I die, I suspect, even if I end up with an EV eventually

Edited 15 October, 202515 Oct by Lady Elanore