Replace OEM Xenon with Osram D3S next gen

[JackySi]

On SLA I think adjusting range will mess up the settings of electronics also right (tunnel would start shining others)?
I mean my lights are perfect (all tho they shine down) but that's why there is AFS. On highway the beam is super far. But in town its really really low. 

[Bob-thebuilder]

1 hour ago, Q102 said:

do you adjust the beam height with engine running / ignition on?

Haven't tried with the engine running actually. On my old Volvo, the car adjusted the bulbs down to the start position if I did adjustments to the headlights with the engine running. So ONLY ignition. When the car has performed a quick self-adjustment when the car starts then I think the computer remembers that position and tries to adjust them back when you turn the screws. But not if you do the manual adjustment with ignition only. Then the car has a new start position when it starts its self adjustment process and remembers that instead. 

 

There is also a option where you can connect it to VCDS and calibrate the sensor that's under the car. But that's only necessary if you do height adjustments on the car itself and/or if you replace the sensor. Not necessary when you only want to do minor adjustments on the headlight. 

[Bob-thebuilder]

To be clear:

 

VCDS is not necessary if you only want to adjust your headlights. That is done completely manually. 

 

VCDS is necessary if you do height adjustments on the car itself or if you replace the sensor if it's broken. The sensor gives the computer information about how many degrees the "arm" is turned. So if you load your car full of heavy stuff, the car lowers and the arm changes position which tells the beam to adjust down. 

 

So, the height and start position is done manually. The adjustment while driving is done by the sensor

[FelisBengalensis]

I have just installed the D1S variant of the Xenarc Nightbreaker Laser into my X6 (bi-Xenon projector) and there is a definite increase in the quality of the light on the road with better infill.  Main beam is also of a better quality.  I can only think it is the length or orientation of the physical arc? 

 

BMW use the basic Xenarc as one if their OEM fittings (along with Philips).  Whether they are actually much brighter I cannot measure - even though implied by the somewhat hyped by the {up to 200% brighter than the minimum for the (unstated) standard).  The most noticeable other change is the colour temperature.  

 

These new lamps are blue white on startup but definitely slightly warmer (so a lower colour temperature) within 20 seconds or so, although having only run for an hour or so they do still need to burn in.  If you are looking for a cooler ‘bluer’ tint then these are not your choice.  My now 8-year old Xenarc lamps seemed much bluer - which may be age.

 

As mentioned earlier, there is a bluer Xenarc version although this has a much shorter service life, and given how tricky it is to change bulbs (whether BMW or Škoda), it’s not something I want to be doing very often.

 

[Flipfly]

Blue light does not travel as far as the warmer white. On the motorbikes many of my friends fitted 6k bulbs whereas I opted for the 4600k, I get better distance than they do, although there lights look brighter close to the bike. It is probably the warmer colour over the blue giving you the better results. Still see the odd noob with 8 or 10k bulbs fitted to their suped up corsas rocking almost purple bulbs and naff all light actuallyhitting the road......doh!

Edited 3 December, 2018 by Flipfly

[Bob-thebuilder]

16 minutes ago, FelisBengalensis said:

I have just installed the D1S variant of the Xenarc Nightbreaker Laser into my X6 (bi-Xenon projector) and there is a definite increase in the quality of the light on the road with better infill.  Main beam is also of a better quality.  I can only think it is the length or orientation of the physical arc? 

 

BMW use the basic Xenarc as one if their OEM fittings (along with Philips).  Whether they are actually much brighter I cannot measure - even though implied by the somewhat hyped by the {up to 200% brighter than the minimum for the (unstated) standard).  The most noticeable other change is the colour temperature.  

 

These new lamps are blue white on startup but definitely slightly warmer (so a lower colour temperature) within 20 seconds or so, although having only run for an hour or so they do still need to burn in.  If you are looking for a cooler ‘bluer’ tint then these are not your choice.  My now 8-year old Xenarc lamps seemed much bluer - which may be age.

 

As mentioned earlier, there is a bluer Xenarc version although this has a much shorter service life, and given how tricky it is to change bulbs (whether BMW or Škoda), it’s not something I want to be doing very often.

 

That is definitely possible. The EU Regulation for Xenon bulbs give the manufacturer the possibility to produce very different bulbs that meet the same regulation through refined manufacturing processes. As I have said before, the lm tolerance of the bulb is +-450 lm (3200 lm). That means that a standard bulb can be 2750 lm out of the box and a performance bulb 3650 lm. That's almost 1000 lm in tolerance. And it's the same with the design of the arc. There is a tollerance in the regulation which gives the manufacturer the possibility to tweak with the design through better processes.

[Baverhanne]

Changed the main beam xenon lamps in a different and measured with "lux meter" app - this is really important as the readings aren't to take seriously!

But the difference in light output as stated by @Bob-thebuilder is huge!

Philips Xenstart (4years old warmup 4 minutes)- 5200lux at 1.3meter (center of beam)

Osram Laser unlimited (fresh from box warmup 2 minutes) - a whooping 19 300lux at the exact same spot as I measured the old lamp. Now these figures doesn't tell the truth but I would say that a new quality lamp at the same wattage will easily outperform the standard xenon lamps that our cars is delivered with.

[Larry_D]

@Bob-thebuilder, how much brighter are the lights on dipped beam? Full beam looks very impressive but for me, it's the dipped beam performance that I am really disappointed in. I've got a 2018 L&K and I swear that sometimes at night in built-up areas I'm not even sure if the headlights are actually on or not.

[Bob-thebuilder]

6 minutes ago, Larry_D said:

@Bob-thebuilder, how much brighter are the lights on dipped beam? Full beam looks very impressive but for me, it's the dipped beam performance that I am really disappointed in. I've got a 2018 L&K and I swear that sometimes at night in built-up areas I'm not even sure if the headlights are actually on or not.

 

Hi Larry!

 

I'm not sure if you have seen the video or not?

 

If not, here you have it:

 

I switch between low/high beam several times in the video.

 

The low beam is much better than original but I have replaced the bulb and also adjusted the headlight.

[Larry_D]

Holy sheeeeeit, I assumed you were on high beam right from the start! That is an incredible difference. I'm going to go and order these right now. Is there any further spec detail I need beyond what you posted at the start of the thread, i.e. "Osram D3S Laser Next Generation"? Is there a fitment code or anything I need to make sure I get?

 

Thanks

 

Larry

[Bob-thebuilder]

1 hour ago, Larry_D said:

Holy sheeeeeit, I assumed you were on high beam right from the start! That is an incredible difference. I'm going to go and order these right now. Is there any further spec detail I need beyond what you posted at the start of the thread, i.e. "Osram D3S Laser Next Generation"? Is there a fitment code or anything I need to make sure I get?

 

Thanks

 

Larry

 

The difference is huge!

 

You just need to look for "D3S". They will all fit. If you want the best bulbs on the market look for the bulbs I ordered. They are very good.

 

If you want more white ish color. Go for Philips WhiteVision Gen2. I choose the Osram (original color rating) because I live in Sweden and generally whiter light gives worse light output in bad weather. So for overall performance, go for Osram laser!

 

Heads up though, there are a lots of these Xenon bulbs out there that's cheap and crap. There are also pirate copies of both Osram and Philips bulbs.

 

I ordered mine from lichtex.de. They are good in price, fast delivery and has always been original. Don't know if they ship to UK (or wherever you live) but it took 4 days from Germany to Sweden. I highly recommend them.

 

 

Edited 24 January, 2019 by Bob-thebuilder

[Larry_D]

Thanks Bob. I live in the UK. These look legit. Cheers for your help.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0185GYOM0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

Edit: They aren't the same. I think these are the ones.

 

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/d3s-osram-night-breaker-laser-xenarc-next-generation.html

Edited 24 January, 2019 by Larry_D

[Bob-thebuilder]

10 hours ago, Larry_D said:

Thanks Bob. I live in the UK. These look legit. Cheers for your help.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0185GYOM0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

Edit: They aren't the same. I think these are the ones.

 

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/d3s-osram-night-breaker-laser-xenarc-next-generation.html

 

Yep! Laser are the newest ones.

 

The best Xenon bulb on the market a.t.m according to independent testing.

Slightly better than the Philips XtremeVision Gen2. 

[JackySi]

2 hours ago, Bob-thebuilder said:

 

Yep! Laser are the newest ones.

 

The best Xenon bulb on the market a.t.m according to independent testing.

Slightly better than the Philips XtremeVision Gen2. 

Actually what I was reading they're not better than Philiphs.

I also checked a test which proves that ARC is just little moved so Laser has better lumens in "dipped" mode while XtremeVision Gen2 is better for high beams. See for your self:

 

 

Edited 25 January, 2019 by JackySi

[Bob-thebuilder]

25 minutes ago, JackySi said:

Actually what I was reading they're not better than Philiphs.

I also checked a test which proves that ARC is just little moved so Laser has better lumens in "dipped" mode while XtremeVision Gen2 is better for high beams. See for your self:

 

 

 

For me the low beam is far more important. Its probably where you notice the biggest difference and it's also the beam that most of the drivers use most of the time. 

 

A high beam worth the name can only be a reality with double bulbs like back in the days. Or if you install a LED bar, like most of the people do in Sweden. 

[JackySi]

Just now, Bob-thebuilder said:

 

For me the low beam is far more important. Its probably where you notice the biggest difference and it's also the beam that most of the drivers use most of the time. 

 

A high beam worth the name can only be a reality with double bulbs like back in the days. Or if you install a LED bar, like most of the people do in Sweden. 

Interesting... to me low beam has lowest significance. You can see fine with low beams on worst Xenon's for 13€. Low beam has short range anyway (the way lens is setup)... LED bars are forbidden in Slovenia. 

[Bob-thebuilder]

2 hours ago, JackySi said:

Interesting... to me low beam has lowest significance. You can see fine with low beams on worst Xenon's for 13€. Low beam has short range anyway (the way lens is setup)... LED bars are forbidden in Slovenia. 

 

That's not true. As I showed in my own experiment there is a tremendous difference even between a OEM Osram bulb and high performance bulb. A cheap Xenon bulb (which I have tested on other cars) is dangerous. They are really crappy and most of the time doesn't even meet the EU regulation. On one of my car they melted the reflector inside the headlight. 

 

But as I said, if high beam is what people are looking for then a LED bar is where People should go. It's legal in Sweden and everyone that needs better high beam have them mounted on the car. As I also will do.

[JackySi]

2 minutes ago, Bob-thebuilder said:

 

That's not true. As I showed in my own experiment there is a tremendous difference even between a OEM Osram bulb and high performance bulb. A cheap Xenon bulb (which I have tested on other cars) is dangerous. They are really crappy and most of the time doesn't even meet the EU regulation. On one of my car they melted the reflector inside the headlight. 

 

But as I said, if high beam is what people are looking for then a LED bar is where People should go. It's legal in Sweden and everyone that needs better high beam have them mounted on the car. As I also will do.

Your point with High Beams is really horrible and you're focusing on Single Country in the EUROPE. I'm pretty sure most countries have forbidden LED Bars otherwise car companies wouldn't have been limited to specific lumen outputs. That applies to all headlight technologies not just XENON. This forum topic isn't about Sweden but its about Osram's D3S Laser Bulbs.

I agree cheap bulbs don't meet regulations and can do bad stuff to your reflectors, but in General people use low beams in cities where there is CITY LIGHT. Outside we always use High Beams. Specially with fitted SLA (which is now Standard in L&K as well). Your points are kinda stupid because you focus only on your self. My point was that High Beam which is what 90% people here (BECAUSE there is definitely not more than 10% members of this forum from Sweden) care about.

 

[Bob-thebuilder]

4 hours ago, JackySi said:

Your point with High Beams is really horrible and you're focusing on Single Country in the EUROPE. I'm pretty sure most countries have forbidden LED Bars otherwise car companies wouldn't have been limited to specific lumen outputs. That applies to all headlight technologies not just XENON. This forum topic isn't about Sweden but its about Osram's D3S Laser Bulbs.

I agree cheap bulbs don't meet regulations and can do bad stuff to your reflectors, but in General people use low beams in cities where there is CITY LIGHT. Outside we always use High Beams. Specially with fitted SLA (which is now Standard in L&K as well). Your points are kinda stupid because you focus only on your self. My point was that High Beam which is what 90% people here (BECAUSE there is definitely not more than 10% members of this forum from Sweden) care about.

 

 

Ok m8. Let's get it straight for you then.

 

The measurement on the video you posted is maybe done at 20 meters and the difference on high beam was appx 100 lux. So, how much of that advantage do you think you have when measuring at real driving conditions? Let's say at 150 or 200 meters? I would say no difference at all. Or at least such a small difference that it wouldn't be noticable at all between the Laser and XV2

 

But measuring low beam is directly applicable in real life driving conditions. The light advantage you get on the test is gonna be directly noticable on the road. 

 

In addition to that, the laser is a better Kelvin for overall driving conditions. The higher Kelvin (Philips is rated 4800k) the more decline in performance you are gonna get in rainy weather, fog, snow and so on.

 

The overall best performer IS the Osram Laser. And that's a fact. You can argue how much you want and call my points stupid and so on. The facts are clear.

[JackySi]

23 hours ago, Bob-thebuilder said:

 

Ok m8. Let's get it straight for you then.

 

The measurement on the video you posted is maybe done at 20 meters and the difference on high beam was appx 100 lux. So, how much of that advantage do you think you have when measuring at real driving conditions? Let's say at 150 or 200 meters? I would say no difference at all. Or at least such a small difference that it wouldn't be noticable at all between the Laser and XV2

 

But measuring low beam is directly applicable in real life driving conditions. The light advantage you get on the test is gonna be directly noticable on the road. 

 

In addition to that, the laser is a better Kelvin for overall driving conditions. The higher Kelvin (Philips is rated 4800k) the more decline in performance you are gonna get in rainy weather, fog, snow and so on.

 

The overall best performer IS the Osram Laser. And that's a fact. You can argue how much you want and call my points stupid and so on. The facts are clear.

Aight man =). I tried both and I still don't prefer Laser over Philips in any way. In fact I'd rather buy Osram's Cool blue Intense again (if I haven't had changed to Philips) than Laser. 
The kelvin's part, I really wonder why all new cars with LED have 5000K+... LED can easily archive 4300K...

[Gizmo]

On 03/11/2018 at 13:23, JackySi said:

P.S.: I was looking into getting LED's but I found out that there is simply no space to store the LED drivers. I have advanced lights (SLA) and when opening up cover checking behind original ballast there is simply no space left. Even LED lamp it self could be very tight fit (problem with motors?). So expensive Xenon seems to be the only option for me =(

 

How much room is actually between the OE D3S igniter / driver and the cover?

 

I thought the actual ballast was mounted outside the headlight?

[JackySi]

8 hours ago, Gizmo said:

 

How much room is actually between the OE D3S igniter / driver and the cover?

 

I thought the actual ballast was mounted outside the headlight?

The Xenon ballast is outside yes, it is clearly visible when opening Engine bay. Initially I wanted to fit LED driver into headlight it self (so original ballast can stay put (since it seals the housing and would require no housing modification) but that's obviously not possible. After checking the headlight better I visually simply guessed that LED would not fit because LED requires space for the cooling behind it and also the bulb is heavier which could create issues with electric motors which move the bulb. Initially I thought only lens move, but after trying to carefully move bulb it moved whole lens inside and the bulb. There are also 2 more issues, first is biggest issue of all, getting an LED bulb that actually shines better than XENON and has good light spread that will work with reflectors inside housing and the second is that this modification almost certainly requires modification of the headlight it self (drilling housing or something like that) which will void warranty (my car has 4 year warranty left) so that's a big problem.

As I said before I think easiest solution to get really really high light output is upgrading ballasts. But sadly that will reduce life of LENS. Talking to some friends/mechanics most recommended 45w which should be fine (20-25% more light output) but they all warned me about less life on bulbs/lenses which makes sense. But less life could mean instead 20 years only 15 for lens and 5 years on bulbs instead of 7-8. 

[drewellis]

On 25/01/2019 at 12:52, Bob-thebuilder said:

if high beam is what people are looking for then a LED bar is where People should go. It's legal in Sweden and everyone that needs better high beam have them mounted on the car. As I also will do.

I'm interested in which type of LED bar you plan to fit, and where exactly it will go (assuming you mean you'll fit it to the Superb)?

 

If I could, I'd get one and mount it low down in the grill so that I could blind people when they drive round in good weather with their fog lights on...it should be punishable by hanging

[Bob-thebuilder]

1 hour ago, drewellis said:

I'm interested in which type of LED bar you plan to fit, and where exactly it will go (assuming you mean you'll fit it to the Superb)?

 

If I could, I'd get one and mount it low down in the grill so that I could blind people when they drive round in good weather with their fog lights on...it should be punishable by hanging

 

Don't know if you are serious...

 

But here is a picture from @Baverhanne and how he did.

 

The Picture is not mine. They can be found here:

 

I'm thinking of getting a Strands NUUK or Osrams new Osrams FX500. The first original LED bar from Osram. Not the strongest ones but definitely good value.

 

For installation there is a swedish patented invention called XBB lightswitch. You simply connect the XBB plus and minus to the car and then the LED bar to the XBB. From the XBB then there is a electromagnetic switch that you fit on the cable that gives the Xenon solenoid power when you switch on the high beam. And voila! No harm to any cables in the car and the power gets directly from the battery.

[drewellis]

4 hours ago, Bob-thebuilder said:

 

Don't know if you are serious...

 

But here is a picture from @Baverhanne and how he did.

I was pretty serious, that thing is insane! I looked at the pictures and then realised that in the LED picture, he'd covered up the headlights!

The only downside I guess is that it could make the car look a bit ugly from the front.