Difficulty starting from cold.

[roger2]

Have 2009 Skoda 1.9 DP DSG 105 HP. Have had starting problems for a while.When cold, can take up to 20 seconds. New battery hasn't helped. Skoda garage could find nothing wrong on computer. Sounds like a spitfire fighter starting up!

Even when warmed up, can feel a bit lumpy when starting. I'm thinking fuel pump but engine runs fine once started. Any suggestions.

[cheshire_cat]

glow plugs   starter / engine /earth strap ?

[KenONeill]

@roger2 - I'm having similar thoughts to the "Unitary Authority of Warrington Feline" above.

 

SO diagnostics questions:-

1. Does the engine spin OK on the starter?
2. Does it start better hot than cold?
3. When it starts, do you get white smoke smelling of diesel?

[pikpilot]

Glow plugs supply relay?

 

[roger2]

Thank you all for your quick replies. 

KenOneill-1. The engine spins OK on the starter.

2. Yes, it starts better hot than cold. It really struggles the first time in the day. but after that, it starts OK. Unless left for a few hours then it'll struggle again. The car wasn't used at all Christmas day. Today I didn't think it would start at all. Took over 30 seconds.

3. Haven't checked for smoke yet. I'll get the Wife to stand behind the car tomorrow.

pikpilot-cheshire_cat Could be the Glow plugs or supply relay. I'll take car to garage in new year and get them checked. Had OBC checked for error codes a few weeks ago and there wasn't any.

It's getting progressively worse so I shall have to get it fixed soon. Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[bigjohn]

Have the injector seals been disturbed? - it sounds as though diesel is returning back to the fuel tank.

 

[EDIT] Tandem fuel pump?

 

Edited 26 December, 2018 by bigjohn

[KenONeill]

@roger2 - Well, this already definitely sounds like glow plugs or control box.

[Papfox]

Have you run a bottle of injector cleaner through it recently? I use Techron in my petrol vRS. I believe they make a diesel one. My local stockist is ATS. Gummed up injectors will make the car harder to start and will reduce the performance. The recommendation I was given was to run a bottle through every 3 or 6 months. My newly acquired 2nd hand Octavia clearly hadn't been done in a long time (or ever.) It improved dramatically after only about an hour's driving.

[bigjohn]

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@roger2 - Well, this already definitely sounds like glow plugs or control box.

 

I wondered that but don't they log a fault? - the original poster said none showing.

 

The PD engines whilst reliable can have unit pd injector seal issues especially if they have been diturbed and the tandem pump (which also includes the brake vacuum pump) has been known to have problems.

 

 

 

Edited 27 December, 2018 by bigjohn

[roger2]

Hi. Was going to film the car starting this morning but the damn thing started first time! typical. I haven't touched the injectors. I haven't used injector cleaner either but sounds like it would be a good idea.I'll give that a try.

 

Could be the Glow plugs or supply relay. I'm thinking  it might be fuel related. Been looking at the pipework leading from the tandem fuel pump to the fuel temp. sensor. Looks  very messy. Looks like there might be a leak there. Would this cause the problem I have? Have included short video clip, hope it works.

 

Thanks again for all your help. 

[skomaz]

On 27/12/2018 at 04:37, KenONeill said:

@roger2 - Well, this already definitely sounds like glow plugs or control box.

 

Definitely sounds like glow plugs to me as well and mirrors my experience.  The glow plugs won't always log an error until their resistance has gone very high but will cause issues before then.  They heat to aid start up but then also continue to hear after startup to help with emissions.

 

I'd get a multimeter out and check the resistance of each one.  They should be below 10 ohms and ideally about 7iirc.  Anything over about 15 has about had it.  They are cheap enough to replace.

 

To check them take the lead off and check the resistance from the tip to the adjacent engine block for each one.  I had issues with two at around 200ohms and another at about 25ohms.

[softscoop]

Glow plugs are theoretically easy to replace but be wary of doing them yourself unless you have the right bits of kit. 

 

They are a very fine thread which is easily to over tighten and strip.

 

Getting the thread as clean as possible is the key to getting them in correctly.

 

Without them in correctly the engine might not even run at all as you'll have no compression.

 

Give them a good application of plus gas into the thread well before you try to undo them. Let it soak in thoroughly.

 

Then once they are out, ideally you need to use a reamer on the thread to ensure its totally cleaned out.

 

Ensure 100% that it is not cross threaded when putting the new ones in. 

 

I'm not sure of exact torque needed on the Octavia but with glow plugs it's generally really low like 20nm. 

 

Edited 28 December, 2018 by softscoop

[cheshire_cat]

re tandem pump   if its oil  then a gasket is available pump/to block   if its diesel  its more involved,  will explain more if you want to re fuel

[roger2]

Hi every one. An update on my problem. Have checked glow plugs with multimeter and three are out of spec. 12.5 ohms 40 ohms and 150 ohms. 4th one is OK at .9 ohms.

 

Having read and been told horror stories about what can go wrong doing this job, I'm having it done at a garage next week. If this doesn't cure the problem I'll have the tandem pump checked. How can I check if fuel's slow getting to the engine on start up.

 

I've put some super duper, very expensive, diesel in, and some injector  cleaner also. If I can't  get the problem fixed soon, i'm going to bugger up starter motor.

 

Thanks everyone.

[cheshire_cat]

if that doesn't fix it   I would check the intank pump and filter system next    was the leak engine oil or diesel ?

[roger2]

Hi cheshire_cat    

 

  Haven't had leak checked yet. I'll ask the garage to have a look when the glow plugs are being replaced next week.

[Jevpls]

About glow plugs. This winter I realized that my car starts weird. At -5 it started with great juddering (idle was also very unstable) for some seconds and then it went to normal. I got the suspicion that one or more glowplugs might be out of order. One was. After change car starts smoothly.

If you got 3 faulty ones then it might be worse.

 

If the fault is really in glowplugs then it's not a big deal. They aren't expensive.

Edited 5 January, 2019 by Jevpls
added information

[J.R.]

Cheap to buy, easy to fit and will definitely cure your problem.

 

I bought my vehicle in September and VCDS showed that all the plugs were U/S, I wasnt convinced (understatement) as they had resistance but wiser more experienced people on here convinced me to change them, they were right, it is starting on a half a turn every time in these freezing conditions.

[roger2]

Thanks J.R. Hope your right. I was tempted to do it myself. Looks easy in a video I saw, but I'm a bit clumsy. If I cross thread one or snap one, I'll never forgive myself, nor will the wife!

 

I'll leave it to the pros.

 

[SuperbTWM]

From my experience it has to get pretty damn cold for a healthy PD to start lumpy, my PD105 always started perfect with an instant turn of the key at at least -5C with no waiting on any glow plugs. 

 

I think its more likely that your injectors may be just tired and not atomising the fuel correctly. Its worth changing the glow plugs if they have failed and they will probably help out as they do glow post starting for a quite a long period also to help with combustion.

Edited 5 January, 2019 by SuperbTWM

[roger2]

Took the lid off fuel filter this morning. Was three quarters full. Couldn't see the filter inside the canister because the fuel was so dirty. Renewing filter today. Filter was renewed about 35k miles ago. Should the fuel filter canister have been full to the top when the lid's taken off or is three quarters OK?

 

Have a fuel pump/sender on order. If the new Glow plugs being fitted Thursday don't help I'll fit new pump, see if that does the trick.

[wiilydog]

from memory I think it should be full to the top, this may be the cause of your starting problems as you fuel is draining back somewhere cause reduced fuel pressure??

[mrgf]

Always a good idea to replace the fuel filter anyway. Cheap and easy preventative issue. Many people do not wait for the glow plug light to go off prior to starting. Usually, in normal weather conditions, its fairly quick so I guess they are just used to turning on, as with a petrol vehicle. 

Its always a good idea to just watch the light go out first. Once you are used to it, it becomes second nature and this will, in turn, help prevent early failure.

 

Oh, and give it a new air filter, if not already done. A breath of fresh air can only be good. No matter how much fuel you have or what spec of fuel, it still needs air, to combust!

Edited 8 January, 2019 by mrgf

[J.R.]

38 minutes ago, mrgf said:

Its always a good idea to just watch the light go out first. Once you are used to it, it becomes second nature and this will, in turn, help prevent early failure.

 

 

Good advice but how do you consider that doing so prevents early failure of (presumably) the glowplugs?

[roger2]

Story so far. Had glow plugs replaced Thursday. I changed the Fuel filter Monday. Garage says rear fuel pump/sender OK. Still the problem persists. Garage says it could be injector or Tandem pump. Garage quoted £400+fitting+VAT for pump! they're £230 with VAT  online. Garage had look around tandem pump, not fuel leak

 

but oil. I'll have a look myself.

 

I always wait for glow plug light to go out before trying to start engine. Engine takes 20-30 seconds to start. It's as if there's the fuel has run back to the tank. Still thinking could be tandem pump. What would be the symptoms of this.