ARB bush clonk issue. Newish bushes

[bmbmdmb]

I don't know what to check change next. I checked all bolts on droplinks, ball joint, top strut, brake caliper, brake caliper carrier and they are all nice and torqued up. The exhaust mounts are good.

 

The fact that the ARB was replaced and solved clunk, at least temporarily, would indicate this is the problem or that it is disguising another suspension component? 

 

I've turned steering on full lock and stood on car sill, with door open, rocking car heavily up and down, all I hear is handbrake and swish of front shock absorber, which was replaced. No knocks or clunks.

[Wench]

Possibly a daft suggestion but are all the rubbery bits that the bonnet rest on ok? I’m sure I’ve read on here as well about someone finding a noise coming from the bonnet catch as well

[TMB]

Were the new drop links good quality ones?  

[bmbmdmb]

I read that on Briskoda too, Wench.

The noise is definitely on left of car and low down. Btw driveshaft nut checked and not touched that side during suspension replacement.

 

Tmb, all parts are OEM from Skoda  dealer. Only thing I bought from local motorshop was track rod ends and they are like for like, both sides. Borg and Beck. Car handles are dream. Just annoying clunk over uneven roads or coming onto the large speed bumps a little too fast, but not fast in most people's experience.  

 

The problem started when ARB bolts were loosened too much and I had to come out to wife at roadside to retighten, which were too tight. The ARB bracket was loose in right, driver's, side of car. When replacing the arbs the right side hole has been made oval by the play in the bar. The opposite side ARB bush, which I have clunk sound looked okay. 

 

When removing ARB bush, the metal collar if arb looked very close to the metal of chassis, 2mm maybe. The right side ARB bush looked further away.

On fitting new ARB the distance was further away. Although no rubbing was evident. 

 

Pic1 left side ARB bush

Pic2 right side ARB bush

Pic3 right side with new ARB bush.

[bmbmdmb]

Run out of uploaded space for pic3

[bmbmdmb]

FYI regarding choice of ARB bush size I looked at 7month old bushes and found that the bottom number on the ARB bush SBR/BR 19 or 20 does not equate to inside diameter. One of the ARB bushes showed 26. Might be a batch number? 

Edited 3 March, 2019 by bmbmdmb

[TMB]

How about play in the inner track rod joints inside the steering bellows? Also, were the large bolts in the front of the wishbones torqued up properly? I know when I did my console bushes that I didn't quite get them tight enough and it produced a metallic clonking over bumps at slow speeds. 

 

I really can't see that your noise is coming from the ARB after all the stuff you've done.

[bmbmdmb]

14 minutes ago, TMB said:

Also, were the large bolts in the front of the wishbones torqued up properly?

I did not personally replace these, but did put a spanner on them and not loose.

[bmbmdmb]

15 minutes ago, TMB said:

How about play in the inner track rod joints

How do I check this please?

[TMB]

3 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

How do I check this please?

 

Jack wheel off ground and grasp wheel at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock position and move it side to side to feel for play.

 

There's no way you could tell if the wishbone bolts are torqued properly just by putting a spanner on them.

[bmbmdmb]

I'll check these 2 items tomorrow and report back thanks

[bmbmdmb]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dz8E5Doe40OE&ved=2ahUKEwjyq-a85-bgAhWcURUIHXoqC2YQjjgwEHoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3fXeRPMb-EXupVNNAe3VGN

 

How to check inner tracking / tie rod video, but on a Volvo. 

[bmbmdmb]

No movement on wheel at 9 and 3 o clock positions. 

 

Took off undertray and checked front wishbone bolt, with long wrench bar, it didn't budge. 

 

Even checked strut bolt, ball joint nut, caliper bolts, nothing loose. Exhaust was bounced around, minimal side to side movement only.

 

I can't think of anything else other than a console bush. 

 

I might have put new bump stops wrong way around , looking at diagrams, when installing new spring over new strut, but I checked both sides today and they are same orientation and there is no noise on right side. Both sides were healthy, no damage.

 

Clunk is definitely low down in car on left side I have to go over a steep bump to get clunk.

 

Btw it had a new Sachs clutch and dual mass flywheel and slave cylinder installed, but this preceded the clunk noise. This job was beyond me and local mechanic did this for me.

 

Would nearside inner CV joint be touched?

 

 

 

[rum4mo]

The way I check for track rod inner joint being worn, is to have car parked, engine off ignition key turned to first position and rock the steering wheel maybe only an inch or so each way - if you can feel or hear slight knocking there is an inner joint worn. After confirming that, lie on the ground beside the front wheels, one at a time and grab the track rod at the TRE while someone repeats these rocking movements, if no free movement is felt at the TRE, grab the track rod right in where the rubber gaiter is and get the steering wheel rocked again if there is any free movement you should feel it.

 

I had to replace these rods and the TREs on my wife’s 2002 Polo many years ago, and have checked my daughter’s late 2009 Ibiza last Saturday, so will get that job to do in April!

[bmbmdmb]

Okay, appreciate the detail, thanks. 

I did have steering lock come on, most likely today, so will repeat.

 

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

to replace these rods

How many miles had the cars covered? Mine is ticking over 80k

[KenONeill]

On 03/03/2019 at 18:03, bmbmdmb said:

Run out of uploaded space for pic3

You could use a photo-hosting account and link from it?

[rum4mo]

11 hours ago, bmbmdmb said:

Okay, appreciate the detail, thanks. 

I did have steering lock come on, most likely today, so will repeat.

 

How many miles had the cars covered? Mine is ticking over 80k

 

The 2002 Polo run that sort of mileage, but the late 2009 Ibiza has only got to 56K miles.

 

That suggestion of mine is only a really outside shot at diagnosing your problem, offered as everything else has so far failed to resolve the noises.

 

Also that Polo was thought to be running perfectly, just that the MOT guy found that and when I checked - he was spot on. The late 2009 Ibiza has been moaned about for 8 months with a braking/steering irregularity, now and again only under certain conditions, now getting more regular at higher (70MPH) speeds as a steering feeling issue - that car was MOT'd in late October with no advisories, 2.5K miles later it definitely has a worn/failed inner rod joint.

 

I suppose checking for this is easy and ticks another box.

 

Edit:- your aim should be to reach or almost reach the point where the wheels actually move, moving the steering wheel too far left<>right will end up with the road wheels moving and you missing hearing any noise from a worn/failed TRE or inner rod joint. That is why the plan is to rock the steering wheel left to right.

Edited 5 March, 2019 by rum4mo

[bmbmdmb]

8 hours ago, rum4mo said:

noise from a worn/failed TRE or inner rod joint

Rocking steering wheel with steering lock off I can hear a metallic noise, clunking. With wife at wheel and weight of car on front wheels, no jack, I can feel the inner track rod clunking on driver's side of car with my hand over gaiter. 

This surprised me, it would not be noise and vibration of steering column engaging steering lock? There is nothing on left side of car. TRE are new and nothing from them.

Then I managed to bust my phone, kneeling on it...first time for everything. Bent phone as well! Took it out of pocket to avoid this.

It was the driver's side shocker that failed, would this increase likelihood of failure of inner track rod?

Thanks

 

[bmbmdmb]

Just repeated this on Octavia and I get similar feeling on driver's side gaiter, probably steering column

[rum4mo]

Sorry about the phone!

 

I think that it was the RHS inner rod joint that was loose on my wife’s 2002 Polo and again it is that side that is noisy on my daughter’s 2009 IBiza!

 

Now, add to that no stock of bits via GSF and no “rod + TRE” combos in stock at ECP, only bare rods and single TREs, which is where I bought new ones for the Ibiza - and I just walked into my easiest to reach VAG dealer’s parts dept, which was Skoda, and they had the Oetiker clips for the bellows in stock, I had expected to need to get them ordered in! So is all that coincidence or are owners of Fabia, Polo and Ibiza needing to sort out many steering systems?

[rum4mo]

15 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

Just repeated this on Octavia and I get similar feeling on driver's side gaiter, probably steering column

I think if you move the steering wheel violently enough you could well feel/hear the rack assembly moving across the car in its rubber mountings, but at least the Polo etc, I think, has a bolted down rack that probably will not move - or the steering column moving within its rubber mounts. That is why you need to rock the steering wheel only almost enough to start moving the road wheels.

 

In the dark distant past, I needed to “refresh” these rod assemblies on an Escort MK2 by stripping them down and replacing the springs and nylon cups - in the old days, Haynes listed an “articulation load reading” so if you ended up with slack inner rod joints you could pass/fail them using a spring balance and repair and adjust again to the correct range of articulation “effort”.

Edited 5 March, 2019 by rum4mo

[rum4mo]

1 hour ago, bmbmdmb said:

Snip ———— Snip.

It was the driver's side shocker that failed, would this increase likelihood of failure of inner track rod?

Thanks

 

If I was to make a guess/suggestion why it seems, on a sample of 3 cars, that it is the RHS inner rod that fails most often on RHD Fabia/Polo/Fabia, then I would say it could be down to the RHS of the rack and rack assembly, is more “solid” than the LHS, so any incoming impact/shock on that side will hurt that side’s inner joint more than the LHS.

[bmbmdmb]

Is it worth doing on a punt, or let it develop a bit longer? If arb went loose, as it did would it exacerbate this problem.

Could the noise transmit to left side of car from right?

Worth doing both sides?

As tracking will need doing I might do console bushes and front console bush. What brand would you recommend? I have bush insertion tool.

 

 

 

[rum4mo]

If replacing the track rods I’d always replace both sides and both TREs and hope to never revisit that task within your period of ownership.  As to if you should/need  to replace these items right now, I’d say no unless you are hell bent in getting rid of this noise right now and are willing to keep replacing things when you get that result.

 

As you have a VRS, I can’t give you any advice based on my experience, on which console bushes to fit if you are going to replace them as I used Cupra ones and it was said that they made the car too noisy when fitted to 1.9TDI engined cars, although the Cupra used that engine, very strange when you think about it! I fitted them to a Polo with the BBY 1.4 16v 75PS petrol engine. Maybe it was lower output TDI engined car’s that became too noisy when fitted with Cupra solid bushes.

Edited 5 March, 2019 by rum4mo

[bmbmdmb]

Thanks.

Tools for inner track rod removal.

Laser 4765 track rod remover or

Installer Remover Tool Set Adjuster 1/2" Universal?

both around £30 on Amaz.....

 

hacksaw or tool purpose suited for removal of metal clips over gaiter?

 

Any other tools needed or useful? Thanks