ARB bush clonk issue. Newish bushes

[rum4mo]

The brand that I bought from ECP is Lemforder, which along with TRW are ZF brands.

 

Now ECP sell a cheaper brand as well, but first time round I bought Lemforder and so this time I did the same.  VW Group parts seemed a bit expensive for me, I have never replaced these bellows and would not expect to need to unless they had got damaged for some reason prior to this repair.

 

When I bought these parts for my wife’s 2002 Polo many years ago I bought the complete assembly, ie rod and TRE and locking nut as that was cheaper than buying an inner rod and a TRE, when buying these same parts for my daughter’s late 2009 Ibiza I found that for ECP, the complete assembly was out of stock as far as the Lemforder version was concerned so I had to spend slightly more and buy the individual parts.

 

EDit:- as said previously, TRW supplied the complete steering gear to your car - unless it is a very early car with Koto steering system, but without looking back, I think that your car is new enough to have to be TRW.

 

Another Edit:- right, your car is a 2007 so must have TRW steering system.

Edited 15 March, 2019 by rum4mo

[TMB]

9 hours ago, rum4mo said:

I have never replaced these bellows and would not expect to need to unless they had got damaged for some reason prior to this repair.

 

I had one spilt completely in half on my Fabia so I'd definitely recommend replacing them. I used Febi branded ones. There are two different types of bellows but they will both fit as I found out by buying the wrong ones.

 

Quote

unless it is a very early car with Koto steering system

 

It's Koyo not Koto.

 

Edited 15 March, 2019 by TMB

[rum4mo]

Bother, Koyo - sorry, I'm sure that it used to have two names like To?? Koyo - but I can find nothing now to back that up, not even on Koyo's website!

[TMB]

I think they might have been called Sona Koyo, or maybe that name came later.

[rum4mo]

I've found it now, they used to be known as SMI-KOYO, all I need to do now is to remember that!

[bmbmdmb]

Update:

Nearside was clunking / twanging after large speed bump.

I decided to change the inner track rod, having previously done outer track rod along with ball joint, shocks, spring and ARB, droplinks.

 

It appears it is not inner track rod end. There is no play in the ball joint.

 

Anyone replacing this, the gaiter you need will need a 5cm exactly diameter at steering rack end. I had to use original which was more plastic than rubber. The replacement I was assured would fit was mainly rubber.

The tool I used was a 30 to 45mm diameter neilsen inner track rod end tool, the toilet plunger like tool. It worked a treat. Torque is 80nm.

There is an octagon after tapered joint but access is limited. Crows foot spanner possible , but getting sufficient torque difficult. 

 

I'll post Borg and Beck part number as there were 3 possible part numbers for my car, luckily I had part off car to check in shop. 

 

I've yet to do driver's side, might as well. Apparently, both inner track rods are identical and interchangeable.

 

Next job is the console bushes. I bought Cupra ones.

 

Thanks

[TMB]

What did you use as a clamp for the rack gaiter at the rack end?

[bmbmdmb]

28 minutes ago, TMB said:

What did you use as a clamp for the rack gaiter at the rack end?

Jubilee clip. Screwdriver could access from diagonal. I had a 30cm long flat ended screwdriver to hand.

[bmbmdmb]

There is a rubber flat ring that wraps around steering rack tube under gaiter to help seal when jubilee compressed. Not shown in pic.

 

Could driver's side be loose and cause noise on nearside or is it likely to be console bush? BTW just bought Cupra bush

[TMB]

1 hour ago, bmbmdmb said:

Jubilee clip. Screwdriver could access from diagonal. I had a 30cm long flat ended screwdriver to hand.

 

I used hose clips too 

 

1 hour ago, bmbmdmb said:

There is a rubber flat ring that wraps around steering rack tube under gaiter to help seal when jubilee compressed. Not shown in pic.

 

 

Yes I noticed that flat rubber ring on mine.

 

1 hour ago, bmbmdmb said:

Could driver's side be loose and cause noise on nearside or is it likely to be console bush? BTW just bought Cupra bush

 

Driver's side wouldn't cause noise on the passenger side but noises on cars can be deceptive. See what it's like after you fit your Cupra bushes.

 

 

 

 

 

[bmbmdmb]

19 hours ago, TMB said:

after you fit your Cupra bushes.

 

The rear wishbone, console bush looks knackered. After removing wishbone I put crowbar in and with little effort there is alot of play. 

The camber figures on nearside of last computerised alignment showed it out of range. Would this bush cause this?

As for Cupra bush. Has anyone had to replace these. I forgot about the nightmare of cutting out old bushes. I think I will go powerflex and return the Cupra ones. Also pressing in the Cupra bushes will require dropping of subframe, possibly. 

I got the front wishbone bush out. Set it alight and then drilled out rubber and twisted metal tube with large pliers. 

[sepulchrave]

Cupra bushes will last slightly longer than the solar system itself. They're just as good as PU but trickier to fit.

[bmbmdmb]

6 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

Cupra bushes will last slightly longer than the solar system itself. They're just as good as PU but trickier to fit

Okay thanks, I'll sleep on it, not the Cupra bush BTW 

[TMB]

2 hours ago, bmbmdmb said:

I got the front wishbone bush out. Set it alight and then drilled out rubber and twisted metal tube with large pliers. 

 

Only the Cupra bushes have a metal outer shell so am confused when you say you removed yours and it had metal on it?

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

2 hours ago, bmbmdmb said:

The camber figures on nearside of last computerised alignment showed it out of range. Would this bush cause this?

No.

What were the figures?

Camber can be evened up if one wheel is too upright and the other too leany-inny, by adjusting the positions of the consoles relative to the body/chassis. The holes in the consoles are 17mm and the bolts that go through into the chassis are M12, so there's +/-2.5mm adjustment possible side-to-side for camber evening, or fore-and-aft for caster, or combinations of both.

Trouble is it's going to be a case of lots of small changes, and multiple careful measurements and markings to make any sort of improvement.

 

The consoles are also bolted to the subframe/steering rack, so that forces them to move together in the side-to-side plane, hence only being able to even up camber rather than increase or decrease both sides.

 

Having loosened off the consoles from the chassis on both sides, it would be quite easy to lose track of your starting point and really stuff things up, so don't go there unless you are confident.

[sepulchrave]

22 minutes ago, TMB said:

 

Only the Cupra bushes have a metal outer shell so am confused when you say you removed yours and it had metal on it?

 

 

 

No, the early standard void bushes had a metal shell as well, my old 2000 1.4 had them.

[TMB]

^ Really? Wow, didn't know that!

[Breezy_Pete]

OP is referring to the front bush with his burning and tube twisting, no?

 

[TMB]

16 minutes ago, Wino said:

OP is referring to the front bush with his burning and tube twisting, no?

 

 

Ah, I think you're right there. Waste of time touching those but each to their own.

[bmbmdmb]

11 hours ago, TMB said:

metal outer shell

Front wishbone bush. Centre tube is metal surrounded by just rubber with a lip over wishbone at both ends. This is the bush that doesn't wear out. Lots of wd40 and gt85 helped get it out.

 

10 hours ago, TMB said:

  11 hours ago, Wino said:

OP is referring to the front bush with his burning and tube twisting, no?

 

Yes

[rum4mo]

Going back to refitting the steering rack bellows on the LHS ie NS of the car, that rubber sealing sleeve really really annoyed me as it kept sneaking out and so the plastic bellows could not be tightened, then I remembered how I did this job last time (quite a few years ago) and fitted a plastic cable tie over the section of rack housing that the rubber sleeve escapes across to - then pushed the bellows on, that worked well, then after clamping the bellows, I used wire cutters to remove the first cable tie. I do confess to just using cable ties over the bellows and they seem to have worked, bellows are both tight enough and don't rotate when adjusting the toeing.

 

bmbmdmb, you say that the inner knuckle you replaced was not slack/loose - same for the late 2009 Ibiza I changed both steering rods and TREs on, but I think that the spring plate that keeps these knuckles tight enough while allowing articulation, at least in my case, had started not being effective and so it could be allowing that knuckle to rattle while the car was being driven, certainly the Ibiza I was working on has lost the knocking that I could feel while rocking the steering wheel back and forth.

 

I might still try to fit the correct Oitiker clips and tighten them in the future - though I will not guarantee that I will, I tried most methods of tightening the driver's side originally including fitting tube extensions to a pair of heavy duty wire cutters with the cutting faces blunted - I must remember that the next time I try to use a couple of wire cutters, or resharpen them!

 

Edit:- just another comment, I bought a pair of Sachs rear dampers from ECP last weekend while a "good" discount rate was being offered, though worried slightly that a better deal might come along at Easter, but I needed to finish this job by tomorrow as my daughter returns from holiday, for curiosity, when my latest ECP flier came in with an even better, ie "great" discount rate, I just had to check up on how much money I had lost by buying last week - I had saved £1.76 by buying while the lesser discount rate was being given! Not everything is what it pretends to be sometimes!

Edited 19 April, 2019 by rum4mo

[bmbmdmb]

11 hours ago, TMB said:

metal outer shell

Front wishbone bush. Centre tube is metal surrounded by just rubber with a lip over wishbone at both ends. This is the bush that doesn't wear out. Lots of wd40 and gt85 helped get it out.

 

11 hours ago, TMB said:

  11 hours ago, Wino said:

OP is referring to the front bush with his burning and tube twisting, no?

 

Yes

 

Quick question about Cupra bush orientation.

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/ibiza-cupra-uprated-console-bushes-for-vw-polo-skoda-fabia-and-seat-ibiza.html

 

I was told to fit the recessed towards rear of car by Dark side.

 

I just read the DIY guide on Briskly and it states flush side of Cupra bush to rear of car/ console. 

 

Now I'm in doubt...

 

 

[bmbmdmb]

3 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

cable ties over the bellows

New aftermarket bellows that don't fit came with tie wraps, plastic.

The outer clamp was a spring clamp requiring only compression.

The inner metal clamp tie had an opening for flat screwdriver. The 30cm long Aldi screwdriver I got in allowed me to twist and break it in one go. So, much easier job than expected. Some folks have removed battery etc and come in from above to access this.

[bmbmdmb]

10 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

spring plate

Is this in the inner tie rod tampered joint? I'm changing them both at mo, as I've splashed out on tools. All good fun. The inner tie rod threads were starting to corrode anyhow. Both sides cost £30 so not major outlay.

 

Part number for inner tie rod is BTR5646. Borg and Beck. One side is now fitted and is same size in all dimensions.

[rum4mo]

5 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

Front wishbone bush. Centre tube is metal surrounded by just rubber with a lip over wishbone at both ends. This is the bush that doesn't wear out. Lots of wd40 and gt85 helped get it out.

 

Yes

 

Quick question about Cupra bush orientation.

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/ibiza-cupra-uprated-console-bushes-for-vw-polo-skoda-fabia-and-seat-ibiza.html

 

I was told to fit the recessed towards rear of car by Dark side.

 

I just read the DIY guide on Briskly and it states flush side of Cupra bush to rear of car/ console. 

 

Now I'm in doubt...

 

 

Well, from memory, back in 2007 when I got a very good VW Group Indie to fit Cupra solid rear bushes to my wife's 2002 Polo, they fitted one one way and the other the other way, so I got back to them and supplied a new bush to get fitted in what I thought was the correct way, which is flushed/flat ends to the rear of the car - and that looked better and worked okay for many years - that car was sold on  in August 2015. The design looks like in both cases that the recess is only there to allow the TCA peg and the transition from that into the box section of the TCA to fit into the position correctly.