ARB bush clonk issue. Newish bushes

[bmbmdmb]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

 

The biggest, with N suffix seems to have been superseded by suffix-R, is that what you've seen too? Other two don't appear to have been superseded.

6q0411314r is the new code, for 18mm ARB bush. According to dealer.

 

So, is 19mm definitely the wrong size.

Darkside of Barnsley said 18mm

[Breezy_Pete]

It's strange, the suffix N you show in your picture (I think; the N looks a bit like a K?) is theoretically the right size according to the parts lists (if your car has 20mm ARB), but why is it described as 19mm in the rubber, when that doesn't match what the parts list says nor the matching ARB size is? Is that a genuine bush in your photo?

Have you checked/measured the 20mm dimension of the roll bar itself?

[bmbmdmb]

The N is definitely an N, not a K. It looks blurry in photo but clear when bush viewed directly. 

Genuine, it's got VW logo, previous owner said car had no work done on it at 43k other oil changes. The bracket over ARB  bush is the same year as the car registration. So, no reason to think it's been replaced previously.

 

I'll measure roll bar diameter later this afternoon. If 20mm, which dealer and darkside said it is, is 19mm ARB bush the correct one? If 19mm then is 18mm bush correct size.

Ps I have micrometer and Vernier caliper. One will fit over bar.

 

Confusingly, a Google search previously using old code on bush suggests it is 17mm or 18mm depending on which online shop is visited.

[Breezy_Pete]

No, on that 7zap page I linked to, the 16mm bush is for 18mm rollbar, the 17mm bush for 19mm bar, and the 18mm bush for 20mm rollbar.  Very confusing.

Have a quick look on your options sticker in the boot or service book, looking for code 0AQ, 0AR or 0AS; not sure if these codes are usually on that list though. Can't find my photo of ours just this sec. to check.

Maybe the 19 marking in your photo doesn't mean 19mm?

 

 

Edited 1 February, 2019 by Wino

[bmbmdmb]

26 minutes ago, Wino said:

Maybe the 19 marking in your photo doesn't mean 19mm?

That's what I asked the dealer.

No reply.

[bmbmdmb]

27 minutes ago, Wino said:

18mm bush for 20mm rollbar

So, dealer and Euro car parts is correct with 18mm and Darkside is wrong, with 19mm. 

 

There is no 19mm listing for Fabia Vrs with standard ARB?

[Breezy_Pete]

Found the photo and there's no such code on our sticker, so you'd need to look up your full codes to find it. This site can tell you the full options, but no idea how safe it is* https://carinfo.kiev.ua/cars/vin/skoda

 

*except to say that I've used it once and nothing bad happened during or so far afterwards.

Edited 1 February, 2019 by Wino

[Breezy_Pete]

1 minute ago, bmbmdmb said:

So, dealer and Euro car parts is correct with 18mm and Darkside is wrong, with 19mm. 

 

There is no 19mm listing for Fabia Vrs with standard ARB?

 

Without knowing the roll-bar option code I couldn't say for sure what the standard ARB is for a Fabia vRS, but I have little doubt that it's the biggest, 20mm one, which means the bush as described in ETKA should be 18mm.

[bmbmdmb]

13 minutes ago, Wino said:

Without knowing the roll-bar option code

0AS listing as front stabilizer.

Using VIN Darkside used from my number plate. I'll check this soon. At work at moment

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Yep, 0AS=20mm ARB/18mm bush as per 7zap link.

[bmbmdmb]

Vin is confirmed as correct one I used. 

18mm. Thanks.

[rum4mo]

3 hours ago, Wino said:

No, on that 7zap page I linked to, the 16mm bush is for 18mm rollbar, the 17mm bush for 19mm bar, and the 18mm bush for 20mm rollbar.  Very confusing.

Have a quick look on your options sticker in the boot or service book, looking for code 0AQ, 0AR or 0AS; not sure if these codes are usually on that list though. Can't find my photo of ours just this sec. to check.

Maybe the 19 marking in your photo doesn't mean 19mm?

 

 

Is the diameter difference not correct only for the ARBs without the plastic retaining the collars, ie at the mounting points, with an old style ARB that has the plastic sleeves moulded on it, the actual diameter of an 18mm ARB is 20mm etc? So with a alter ARB with welded collars and so no plastic sleeve, the diameter at mounting point for an 18mm ARB will be 18mm.

[Breezy_Pete]

Would be nice if there was something like that which made sense of it all! 

 

[rum4mo]

That is certainly the way it went when there were still many cars with the original plastic sleeving extending beyond where the mounting points were - and the official parts listing reflected that.

[bmbmdmb]

Just measured the ARB with a Vernier caliper, it's 20.9, 21.0mm readings on both sides of car after the bush nearer wheel. 

So, not 20mm as expected. I took more readings again 21mm. It had been painted a few years ago though, so this might account for extra 1mm thickness, or 0.5mm all way around both diameter. Does seem quite consistently about whole number though, ie 21mm....

[duck]

I measured my 2005 VRS anti-roll bar a while ago and it was 20.4mm, I have a set of powerflex bush sitting here waiting to be fitted, I ordered the 20mm ones (PF85-603-20).

 

I was pretty confident they are the right ones but now I'm starting to wonder reading this thread. 

[bmbmdmb]

I measured the old ones diameter of hole. They are 19mm, the one in the photo. But, they have been off car in garage for 6 months, so maybe shrunk a little, like old rubber does. Also, difficult to measure the diameter as the bush can be opened up or closed due to cut away design.

I think your 20mm are a bit big, but would it make such a difference, one or two mm?

How long does the front console bushes last one Fabia Vrs? I noticed these in the powerflex bush diagram.

I emailed powerflex also about correct size. Waiting for reply

 

[sepulchrave]

The important thing is that the bushes must be smaller than the bar so that they grip it tightly therefore there is an element of crush when correctly fitted.

It really makes no difference if the bar is 20mm and the bush is 18mm as long as the brackets can be fully tightened so they are flat against the subframe. 

[bmbmdmb]

From Powerflex

 

Thanks for your email. 

Checking the information for your VIN number, it's saying you have a 20mm bar fitted to your vehicle. 

With that being the case, you would require PFF85-603-20

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Fabia+%282000-2007%29-230/1.html 

I hope this helps. 

Kind Regards

James Bourn ~ Sales Director

[bmbmdmb]

PFF85-603-20. 

 

I have just searched this size

 20mm bush!

 

Now I'm confused. I have 3 different sets of opinion. 18mm 19mm 20mm

 

This would not happen with a timing belt...

[rum4mo]

Remember, hopefully when someone is selling "18mm" bushes, what they are meaning is bushes for an 18mm ARB and not necessary bushes that when "closed" measure 18mm I/D.

[sepulchrave]

Also Powerflex bushes are PU which is much harder than rubber and they allow for far less crush when fitting.

 

You're making a meal of this, ARB bushes are a few quid, worst case scenario you have to order another bigger pair if they're too small.

[bmbmdmb]

I got a reply from Powerflex, which will be useful for anyone going for PU Powerflex .

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

You're making a meal of this

I just don't want to have to mess around changing parts on the car more than twice. Time. Cold, etc. It has turned into a bit of a meal admittedly.

 

Here's the reply which puts an end to this issue once and for all. It is a shame the vendors are selling the wrong size bush.

 

If you have a 20mm bar than you should use a 20mm bush.

 

We make our bushes to suit the bar diameter.

 

VW/Audi etc. tend to size the rubber bush smaller than the bar to allow for compression of the material to make it firmer.

 

We don’t need to do that so size it to the size of the bar hence suggesting the 20mm bush.

 

 

 

Edited 5 February, 2019 by bmbmdmb
Typo

[bmbmdmb]

Update:

I installed the Powerflex ARB bushes. They are the 20mm ones. The car was much better, no clunks for 2 weeks, nice are firm over bumps. Happy days. Then after two fast sharp bends in a supermarket car park, the steering geometry seemed 'off' like the car is not tracked. If that makes sense.

The clunk is back but not as bad. 

 

I'm thinking the front axle console bushes are going. The front console bush has never been replaced, could this be at fault? The rear console bush on front axle have both been replaced, but 30k ago, with OEM ones not cupra or aftermarket. 

 

Here are some pics. Left side that might be at fault. Bolt seems offset to one side, not centralised. Pic from behind console bush facing forward

 

2nd pic. Driver's side from behind. Bolt looks more central.

 

Only thing is, when the rear console bush went before the symptoms were different, knocking during changes of speed. A vagueness in the steering in the bends, wandering. 

 

Recent mot with shaker plate before fitting powerflex did not reveal anything.

 

Any advice? 

I'm happy to replace on the chance this is the problem.

Ps ball joints, track rods, springs, shocks, were replaced.

Reads these links:

 

Would people agree to go powerflex or another brand? Upgrade bushes article suggests another brand.

 

 

 

[TMB]

The console bushes look fine to me. They are not torn or perished. The wishbone spigot not being centralised is of no concern as it's just the way it's settled at that particular time due to normal bush flex. The general design of those OEM bushes isn't very good though, and people usually fit better ones when replacing them. I have Meyle HD ones on mine and they are fine.

 

The small front wishbone bushes never really fail.