Wheel alignment car with ACC

[ukgnome]

If you think about it, the mis-aligned wheels should be causing the issues with ACC and the other stuff because the steering wheel says straight and the car says sideways.

 

I had a 4 wheel alignment done. Independent wouldn't touch it. Dealer did but warned I may need to send it to the Audi shop for realignment, but everything has been fine. I then had to have both front tyres renewed due to mis-alignment wear and the tyre shop did a front wheel alignment/check with no issues.

[Steviedakota]

I doubt the Skoda dealer would have a proper alignment rig in the first place, they would probably out-source this, so maybe they are trying to dig up some work for themselves with the 're calibration'.

[MarekMm]

Latest update.

Confirmation from Skoda below.

 

Meanwhile - I've decided not to fork out £450 to calibrate it. I've fitted new tyres and done wheel alignment at independent garage.

No error messages present. I can't see difference in ACC operation at all.

 

 

[Speedman]

This is what I thought the answer would be but I notice they say it has to be recalibrated rather than might need to be. As with others on here I have had wheel alignment done at a local garage without any issues. Guess it depends how far out it is.

[Gied3ius]

One month ago I have been at Skoda authorized service to solve problem (Creaking sounds from front suspension), they changed bushes and did wheels alignment (I asked why? is it needed? Skoda technician explained, that after resembling and assembling suspension they must to do wheels alignments). But no any ACC calibration done.

 

All items in invoice was covered by Skoda warranty.  So, in my opinion, ACC re calibration  is not mandatory after wheels alignment, otherwise my Skoda dealer service for sure did ACC recalibration.

Edited 18 March, 2019 by Gied3ius

[kipperbailey]

I understand this topic has gone cold recently - but I remembered seeing it when I posted a while back so I Google searched it and it came up. 

I have had exactly the same issue - rang VW and they have said that realignment of the front two wheels will result in a need for the camera that controls ACC to be recalibrated at a cost of £360 (plus VAT I assume). Now I asked a lot of questions and they were happy to answer them, feasibly because of the enormous cost. Happy to report back on some of the answers I received. I asked whether it needed to be done and the answer was well yes, if it is out then it needs to be recalibrated. Which I find to be very difficult to believe, I posed the question that as we live in an area with more holes in the road than cars on the road - how is this a reality? Every time I leave the house the wheels get a knock on one side or the other and on occasion they do have to be realigned because a larger pothole has knocked them off their stride more than usual. So the answer was, well if it has been knocked off a lot then yes it would need to be recalibrated. When I asked why I got the following answer 'the camera calibrates as the car is going along and moving and is constantly recalibrating. Therefore if we realign the wheels we need to recalibrate the camera to be in line with the wheels'. This to me just sounds madness. 

I cannot for the life of me believe that everyone has them done. So again I pressed and said - what have other people done? The gentleman (who seemed to have never-ending patience) said that they have people come in with them slightly off kilter but they decide to leave the recalibration of the camera because of the expense. BUT with the caveat that they will not realign wheels without doing the recalibration. To me this sounds absolutely farcical. Having also rang a local tyre place - they had never heard of all of the above. I think he thought I was talking mumbo jumbo and told me to ring VWUK to confirm it all. The fact local tyre dealers have never heard of this shocks me, as under EU competition law I'm pretty sure (not sure sure) that all dealers should be able to have access to the technology - and if not the technology to do this, the information required. Some may say this is farfetched, but the EU legislator has sought to quash firms having monopoly over something or in fact tying you to a certain place. But anyway I'm not an expert and I have neither the time nor the patience to look up the relevant guidelines after a few recent cases shook stuff up somewhat... 

Just wondering - has anyone had VAG Motors done without having the camera recal'd? I plainly can't afford to have it done, so it won't be happening. 

[Warrior193]

I rather suspect that Free lunch's posting in March might be right (eight letter word, often found in lying around in paddocks)

If you think about the dynamics of steering action and suspension-travel while moving along the road with ACC engaged, how can resetting the toe-in / camber to factory spec. require the ACC modules/camera's to be recalibrated?

I could believe it if the windscreen or front grille have been disturbed or replaced, but otherwise, no.

 

 

[kipperbailey]

Thank you Warrior.... I thought the exact same. How on earth can it need to be recalibrated? I think they tried scaremongering me when they said my ACC/Auto braking wouldn't work.. but. What scares me much more is finding £432... 

 

Thanks again!

[peter_k]

Of course the garages read the workshop manual:

[Warrior193]

Thanks to Peter K for his posting - but none of those conditions for calibration appear to apply to OPs question. I believe that it would be safe to resist claims for recalibration of the camera/front radar for relatively minor front wheel realignment to original specs.

[peter_k]

18 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

Thanks to Peter K for his posting - but none of those conditions for calibration appear to apply to OPs question. I believe that it would be safe to resist claims for recalibration of the camera/front radar for relatively minor front wheel realignment to original specs.

I thought I was posting the definitive list of events that require recalibration 

 

[Warrior193]

12 hours ago, peter_k said:

I thought I was posting the definitive list of events that require recalibration 

 

Fair enough but, unfortunately, a list the dealer appears to be ignorant of in the case of the OP. Or are they pitching for the owner to pay for unnecessary, expensive work? 

[kipperbailey]

 

15 hours ago, peter_k said:

Of course the garages read the workshop manual:

 

 

Thank you Peter K. It certainly doesn't align with anything that they say I'm requiring! 

[kipperbailey]

2 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

Fair enough but, unfortunately, a list the dealer appears to be ignorant of in the case of the OP. Or are they pitching for the owner to pay for unnecessary, expensive work? 

 

Having spoken to the dealership again this morning, they have told me that the passenger side wheel alignment is out by 0.2 degrees and therefore they recommend the wheel alignment and calibration. They seemed to have been much more prepared to have a full explanation of why it was required this morning too, they went on to say that it goes off the way the steering wheel is pointing and the way the wheels are going - so if I have realignment done elsewhere then it won't all be lined up like it should be. 

This was of course after I told them not to do the work and that I'd be taking it elsewhere to check it over and realign it. I cannot see from any of the posts on this topic or anywhere else that it needs doing (the camera recalibration). To me it sounds like utter nonsense. As you say Warrior - I think they are pitching for me to pay unnecessary expensive work. They said their advice was to leave it for a few thousand miles to see how the tyre is going (as in if it is burning off one side) bring it back to be checked and if it is they can do the camera calibration. This just sounds like utter nonsense to me. I've really never heard anything like it. It puts you off buying cars with this technology on them if every pothole is going to (in their theoretical world) cost you £430..

[kipperbailey]

On 18/03/2019 at 08:10, MarekMm said:

Latest update.

Confirmation from Skoda below.

 

Meanwhile - I've decided not to fork out £450 to calibrate it. I've fitted new tyres and done wheel alignment at independent garage.

No error messages present. I can't see difference in ACC operation at all.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to follow your lead here I think. Sounds a pointless wallet emptying exercise to me.

[Bud]

10 minutes ago, kipperbailey said:

 

 

I'm going to follow your lead here I think. Sounds a pointless wallet emptying exercise to me.

So although they may all be linked systems what hazard is presented if they are out of cal, either by a small margin or way out of kilter?  Once you know this then you can make a far better judgment on the prescribed "failure" mode.

[kipperbailey]

Just now, Bud said:

So although they may all be linked systems what hazard is presented if they are out of cal, either by a small margin or way out of kilter?  Once you know this then you can make a far better judgment on the prescribed "failure" mode.

 

I asked this on the phone. The argument proposed to me was 'if it is out of kilter [no degree was given to me as to how much is required to be out for this] the car may see a car to the left of you and believe it is in front of you instead and slam the brakes on or slow down if on adaptive cruise braking sharply to avoid a potential collision'. 

 

The issue is, how much out does it need to be for that to happen? For me, for the car to see a car on the left (or right) and believe it was in front of me surely it would need to be off a fair few degrees...?

[Bud]

Yep. I would suggest the field of view would need to be quite a way off and that this should only occur after there has been damage to the sensor or the mounting.  Maybe if all 4 wheels are squint and the car is crabbing but even then if the chassis, the mounting and sensor is good then why?  Certainly not a minor adjustment to wheel alignment.

 

To add a price for a quick check should be offered rather than a full call process, if the system is found to be out then work needs to be done and this could be costed accordingly.

Edited 28 September, 2019 by Bud

[kipperbailey]

I completely agree, a minor adjustment? To me it just sounds like technicalities gone mad. Obviously from the post above it is VAG standard practice to advise the procedure is done whenever A, B or C is carried out. But that sounds to me like a license to print money... 

 

The wheel alignment is off 0.2 degrees. It surely can't be viewing cars at a different side if that is all that is altered.. 

[freelunch]

ACC is an optional extra and is not required for driving the car safely. Even when using ACC, you have to pay attention – the car does not drive itself. It's just a driver aid. Useful, to be sure, but I would think correct wheel alignment much more important.

 

You could decide for yourself if you think the ACC is not behaving correctly just by watching its performance. I did not recalibrate after a four wheel alignment. My ACC works fine. I always keep my eye on the traffic in front of me and my foot near the brake, regardless.

 

A recalibration may justifiably cost £400 – time and equipment – but to require it sounds like a legal get-out to me.

[kipperbailey]

Just now, freelunch said:

ACC is an optional extra and is not required for driving the car safely. Even when using ACC, you have to pay attention – the car does not drive itself. It's just a driver aid. Useful, to be sure, but I would think correct wheel alignment much more important.

 

You could decide for yourself if you think the ACC is not behaving correctly just by watching its performance. I did not recalibrate after a four wheel alignment. My ACC works fine. I always keep my eye on the traffic in front of me and my foot near the brake, regardless.

 

A recalibration may justifiably cost £400 – time and equipment – but to require it sounds like a legal get-out to me.

 

 

Freelunch I'm with you - I don't 'rely on' either of the technologies that supposedly would stop me. I think it's kicked in once when it was actually useful. I think as you say - wheel alignment is much more useful.. And keeping a foot near the brake is always best practice. 

It sounds all unnecessary to me. I'll have it redone at somewhere independent, as you say - wheel alignment is arguably far more important.

[Tobeornototbe]

3 Adaptive Cruise Control
⇒ “3.1 Setting automatic distance control”, page 246
3.1 Setting automatic distance control
Before beginning the adjustment of Adaptive Cruise Control
(ACC), check the sensors, their brackets and fixing elements for
damage, outside tampering, and a tight fit. Replace or repair any
damaged components.
Before you begin adjustment of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC),
read out the event memory and resolve any errors you find.
The “misalignment angle measurement value” of the ACC control
unit can be used to see if the sensor is altered.
Adjustment of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) must only be made
using an alignment unit authorised by Škoda, with adjusting devices!
Correct adjustment is a precondition for the fault-free operation
of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC).
Note
♦ A readjustment is necessary if:
♦ The track of the rear axle was set.
♦ The clearance control unit -J428- was removed, installed or
replaced.
♦ The front bumper bracket has been removed and installed.
♦ The front bumper bracket has been loosened or adjusted.
♦ The front bumper bracket has been replaced.

[kipperbailey]

On 29/09/2019 at 01:08, Tobeornototbe said:

3 Adaptive Cruise Control
⇒ “3.1 Setting automatic distance control”, page 246
3.1 Setting automatic distance control
Before beginning the adjustment of Adaptive Cruise Control
(ACC), check the sensors, their brackets and fixing elements for
damage, outside tampering, and a tight fit. Replace or repair any
damaged components.
Before you begin adjustment of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC),
read out the event memory and resolve any errors you find.
The “misalignment angle measurement value” of the ACC control
unit can be used to see if the sensor is altered.
Adjustment of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) must only be made
using an alignment unit authorised by Škoda, with adjusting devices!
Correct adjustment is a precondition for the fault-free operation
of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC).
Note
♦ A readjustment is necessary if:
♦ The track of the rear axle was set.
♦ The clearance control unit -J428- was removed, installed or
replaced.
♦ The front bumper bracket has been removed and installed.
♦ The front bumper bracket has been loosened or adjusted.
♦ The front bumper bracket has been replaced.

 

 

According to this it doesn't need to be touched then - as only the front left wheel is off kilter! 

[Hintza]

I bought a CatN Superb a couple of years ago and needed the ACC reattached and 4 wheel alignment at great expense.  Put two new tyres on the front at roughly same time.  Fast forward 6,000 miles and took it for an MOT and the inner edge of both new tyres were down to the canvas.  My mechanic found a bent track rod end and replaced that but only aligned by eye.  (I need it done properly) .   But in the meantime the ACC has performed without issue throughout.

 

I certainly won't be taking it back for calibration unless it throughs up an issue.

 

 

[MikeM46]

So …. Having re-shod my fairly recently acquired SE-L Exec 4x4 dsg tdi 190 estate with 17”. Audi wheels & all weather tyres decided to take to Exeter Protyre for the 4 wheel alignment check every vehicle I buy gets. 

And yes, both front & rear requires some adjustment. Guy starts to explain about calibration of what I took to be ACC (having already read this thread). He called it the ADAS  (Advanced Driver Assistance System) and as he explained the rationale my heart sank at facing potentially a very expensive bill.  Anyway at the end he said they have the equipment to do this on site & it could take up to an hour to complete including the alignments themselves. 

So asked him what all this costs … £75 for the alignment & another £150 for the ADAS re-calibration … phew better than £400 odd but even so … then he adds “however Protyre have a special promotion at present and the cost is £150 for both together.” Deal! was my instant reply!
 

BTW …

He also mentioned that next year the ADAS system would be included in MOTs for vehicles so equipped but I couldn’t stay to find out how.

 

So … Heads up!!
Protyre being a national company, opportunity at present to get 4 wheel alignment & ACC re-calibrated at a seriously bargain price.