3 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

 

wyx087,  You say Co2 will destroy the planet, I say CO2 is the gas of life and without it life on this planet would not exist, you are obviously not aware that the oceans cover 72% of the planet and hold vast quantities of CO2, far more than airborne CO2, as the oceans warm CO2 is released, the planet has been warming slowly since the end of the little iceage around 1860, this 0.8 degree C of warming was caused by the SUN you fool, no SUV`s in the mid 1800`s to start it off. If Co2 is the cause of the recent warming why was there an almost 20 year pause in warming recently. Are you aware that the majority of temperature readings are now taken from urban areas and airports where in the past they were taken mainly from rural areas.  CO2 in the atmosphere is around 408 PPM, CO2 in commercial green houses is around 1200 ppm, plants give a 40% extra yield because of this and workers breath in this level of CO2 day in and day out, nuclear Submariners breath in CO2 at 6000ppm and they have the finger on the button, astronauts breath CO2 at even higher levels. The earth is greening because of this extra CO2 (see Nasa), that means more food to feed the growing world population.

 

Before you come to any conclusion study both sides of the debate, ever heard of Climate Gate, Steve McIntyre, WUWT or Jo Nova, do some research then come back.

By the Way, if it is warmer today why are ancient tree lines on mountains being uncovered by receding snow, how did Viking artifacts get under the permafrost in Greenland, When you hear the term climate disruption and worst storms ever, look at the historical storms in those areas, it`s all Bullsh** man.

  

You sound like Trump, your talking about CO2 that is in the environment.

 

The issue is CO2 that is stored in the earth, that has been there for millions of years and is being released today, right now adding to the existing CO2 cycle.

 

The earth is getting hotter, over and above natural cycles. There are billions of pounds to be made out of oilso its no wonder you can find people who will say otherwise, just as you used to be able to find 'doctors' who would debunk smoking warnings.

I drive my car and my motorbikes relatively sensibly. I keep them all maintained to the best of my ability. I put the best fuel into all of them which I can afford. My car is for work and my motorbikes are for fun. They emit co2 and I can't help that. My car has stop start. It uses it's stop start. Does it make a difference? I don't know, nor do I care. I go to bed and sleep happily. I've other things in my life to worry about rather than going 'oh **** my car has helped to melt a cubic centimeter more of ice'.

 

I'm a petrol head at heart. I go on bike track days, where I use on average 50 litres of petrol to go stupidly fast. One of my favourite holiday destinations is the Isle of Man because of the speeeeeed. I like going for a drive in the lakes. My motorbikes and car all have tuning devices to help them go even faster for more speeeeeed. I watch the Motogp, BSB and numerous other motorbike and car orientated motorsports.......because I like them.

 

 

I'm by no means an eco mentalist, but I still do one's bit. I do have a 'bit' of a garden with a few manageable plants, which do need co2 to live. I ensure my waste goes in the right bin for recycling so we're not needing to use more of our resources. I try not to waste things. I turn 'things' off when they're not in use.

 

Live your life sensibly, have a bit of fun, but don't take the mick. Easy enough to do.

 

quote, You sound like Trump, your talking about CO2 that is in the environment.

 

The issue is CO2 that is stored in the earth, that has been there for millions of years and is being released today, right now adding to the existing CO2 cycle.

 

The earth is getting hotter, over and above natural cycles. There are billions of pounds to be made out of oilso its no wonder you can find people who will say otherwise, just as you used to be able to find 'doctors' who would debunk smoking warnings. Quote.

 

The issue is CO2 that is stored in the earth, Did this co2 come already stored or has it been sequestrated over millions of years, if that was the case CO2 must have been much higher in the past and could not have been catastrophic otherwise life would not have existed then or now.  Without carbon fuels there would have been no industrial revolution and your standard of living would be less than that of the third world,  As you are enjoying a pretty good standard of living are you offering to give that up and offer it to some starving third world citizen. 

 

The earth is getting hotter, over and above natural cycles,  No it isn`t

3 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

 the planet has been warming slowly since the end of the little iceage around 1860, this 0.8 degree C of warming was caused by the SUN you fool, no SUV`s in the mid 1800`s to start it off. 

 

No SUVs that is true, but as you're so keen on getting people to "research" presumably you're aware of the industrial revolution which really kick-started in the mid 19th century and was the beginning of mass-consumption of fossil fuels to power industry? 🙄

 

Climate change deniers, always happy to talk big facts but conveniently ignore the ones that don't work for them...

56 minutes ago, Bouncypete said:

You sound like Trump, your talking about CO2 that is in the environment.

 

The issue is CO2 that is stored in the earth, that has been there for millions of years and is being released today, right now adding to the existing CO2 cycle.

 

The earth is getting hotter, over and above natural cycles. There are billions of pounds to be made out of oilso its no wonder you can find people who will say otherwise, just as you used to be able to find 'doctors' who would debunk smoking warnings.

Only a Doctor who smokes would describe it as healthy.

4 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

CO2 in the atmosphere is around 408 PPM, CO2 in commercial green houses is around 1200 ppm, plants give a 40% extra yield because of this and workers breath in this level of CO2 day in and day out, nuclear Submariners breath in CO2 at 6000ppm and they have the finger on the button, astronauts breath CO2 at even higher levels.

You are aware that breathing in CO2 is not the problem, right? 

8 minutes ago, maffyou said:

You are aware that breathing in CO2 is not the problem, right? 

 

Exactly the opposite, CO2 is a miracle cure for not dying since we need it for our bodies to subconsciously breathe.

 

Proof that turning off stop/start saves lives!

6 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

Exactly the opposite, CO2 is a miracle cure for not dying since we need it for our bodies to subconsciously breathe.

 

Proof that turning off stop/start saves lives!

Well, we don’t need CO2 to breathe, but the process of breathing oxygenates the blood and removes excess CO2. CO2 is important in the bloodstream because it helps regulate pH levels, known as the bicarbonate buffer system. I assume by “subconsciously breathe” you mean cellular respiration? We don’t actually need to breathe in CO2, cellular respiration creates CO2 as a by-product. 

19 minutes ago, maffyou said:

Well, we don’t need CO2 to breathe, but the process of breathing oxygenates the blood and removes excess CO2. CO2 is important in the bloodstream because it helps regulate pH levels, known as the bicarbonate buffer system. I assume by “subconsciously breathe” you mean cellular respiration? We don’t actually need to breathe in CO2, cellular respiration creates CO2 as a by-product. 

 

The post was made in jest with no regard to actual science but I appreciate your reply 

12 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

The post was made in jest with no regard to actual science but I appreciate your reply 

Sorry for not picking up on that - reading it now it seems obvious 🤦‍♂️

1 minute ago, maffyou said:

Sorry for not picking up on that - reading it now it seems obvious 🤦‍♂️

He should add one of these really.

5 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

He should add one of these really.

 

I would but I secretly get enjoyment out of people not being sure whether I'm being serious or not. 

 

Got to have some way to break up the chaos that comes of discussing stop/start. A topic that could turn a group of friends into worst enemies more effectively that a game of Monopoly

Edited 2 June, 20197 yr by SuperbTWM

14 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

Before you come to any conclusion study both sides of the debate, ever heard of Climate Gate, Steve McIntyre, WUWT or Jo Nova, do some research then come back.  

I haven't come to any conclusion. I don't need to study any "debate" because I'm not qualified. 

But I do know climate change it is scientific consensus: vast majority of experts in the field have peer reviewed scientific papers and came to the agreed conclusion about climate change.

 

Before you attempt to start on any reply with your vast amount of "knowledge" on the "debate". Please do read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

LOL at this thread. FFS the best way not to pollute is not to drive i.e. going nowhere with the engine stopped!. So eco warriors of the thread how many miles per year do you drive either in your Diesel or Petrol ICEs?

Money where your mouth is please..

 

Trying to get the thread vaguely back on track. The stop start is way to sensitive on my car, I literally paused at a junction for a couple of seconds waiting for a spot to go yesterday and the thing had cut in thus adding a stupid extra delay while it sorted itself out.. what a dumb system!

 

 

24 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

LOL at this thread. FFS the best way not to pollute is not to drive i.e. going nowhere with the engine stopped!. So eco warriors of the thread how many miles per year do you drive either in your Diesel or Petrol ICEs?

Money where your mouth is please..

Its not about being an eco warrior and damning people, bu just accepting that there are things that can be done which cost nothing and take no effort that help. I don’t understand why people wouldn’t be on board with that?

 

To answer your question, in the last 32 months I’ve driven 19,800 miles which is just under 7.5k per year. Pretty low mileage really. I’d also really love to have an EV but unfortunately I can’t really afford to buy one that meets my needs at the moment. I heavily considered the Leaf but it doesn’t have the space and I could probably have stretched my budget - and it would have been a stretch - to the e-Niro but the lead times are very long on that. As soon as EVs become more affordable and/or my finances change  I’ll be ready to switch. 

 

24 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

Trying to get the thread vaguely back on track. The stop start is way to sensitive on my car, I literally paused at a junction for a couple of seconds waiting for a spot to go yesterday and the thing had cut in thus adding a stupid extra delay while it sorted itself out.. what a dumb system!

 

There can be bad implementations of good ideas...

 

1 minute ago, maffyou said:

Its not about being an eco warrior and damning people, bu just accepting that there are things that can be done which cost nothing and take no effort that help. I don’t understand why people wouldn’t be on board with that?

 

To answer your question, in the last 32 months I’ve driven 19,800 miles which is just under 7.5k per year. Pretty low mileage really. I’d also really love to have an EV but unfortunately I can’t really afford to buy one that meets my needs at the moment. I heavily considered the Leaf but it doesn’t have the space and I could probably have stretched my budget - and it would have been a stretch - to the e-Niro but the lead times are very long on that. As soon as EVs become more affordable and/or my finances change  I’ll be ready to switch. 

 

There can be bad implementations of good ideas...

 

Hmm don't agree sadly, overall certain people on the thread were saying by switching off stop start you're effectively killing more people, there was a tad of eco warrior behaviour going on. LOL Topic completely off track for pages.

 

7.5k per year thats pretty good.. let me see if I can undercut you, think I will, but lets revisit in Nov when I've had my vRS one year. I'm on 8k per year allowance on my PCH. Amazing I don't need my car for work see, I'm helping by NOT driving, got sod all to do with stop start working like crap!  I've agreed with the Mrs we'll be going at least hybrid for our next car, there just isn't the chraging infrastructure or range/choice of suitable let alone always affordable EVs. Tesla no thanks currently.

 

Ok so you're now basically kinda agreeing that they could have implemented the stop start system poorly.. which was the point I was making pages ago before the eco tirade (as I'm calling it) took it completely off track.

At no point did I say I had a problem with the idea.. it makes sense it just so illogically implemented. Hence I'd like my timer implemented please VW Group or by aftermarket adjustment.

 

 

The killing more people idea came from a climate change denier. All other people were just stating facts. I think maffyou have said it very well with regard to direction of this thread had taken.

42 minutes ago, maffyou said:

just accepting that there are things that can be done which cost nothing and take no effort that help. I don’t understand why people wouldn’t be on board with that?

 

As I've pointed out. Just remember to turn on stop/start at long stops if it's too intrusive during normal driving. That's all. It saves you money and produces less emissions, so it's all around win-win. Everyone here have paid for this technology inside your car, so why pay for something you don't use, then proceed to pay for the wasted fuel?!

 

 

 

I've done just over 15k over the last ~2 years of owning my Octy. I run it side by side with my Nissan Leaf EV, the latter gets driven everyday for my commute, which is powered by paying 100% renewable energy supplier. The Octy only gets driven if wife needs a car (not often), or if we are going a long distance.

 

Putting more money where my mouth is, the Octavia will be our last fossil fuelled car. We will keep the Leaf indefinitely for local school runs, and then by the time the car is knackered, I hope we can repurpose the battery as home battery. When the time comes, we'll replace Octavia with a second hand long range EV that is all going on sale in this year and 2020.

 

22 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

Hmm don't agree sadly, overall certain people on the thread were saying by switching off stop start you're effectively killing more people, there was a tad of eco warrior behaviour going on. LOL Topic completely off track for pages.

Ther was perhaps a bit of hyperbole in places, although it’s interesting to note that following diesel gate there has been various research into the health impact of the cheated emissions testing and reports conclude that the increased emissions caused/contributed to some number of deaths (honestly can’t remember the figure and can’t really be bothered to look it up). So it’s maybe a bit of an exaggeration but we do know there is a health impact as well as environmental. 

 

22 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

7.5k per year thats pretty good.. let me see if I can undercut you, think I will, but lets revisit in Nov when I've had my vRS one year. I'm on 8k per year allowance on my PCH. Amazing I don't need my car for work see, I'm helping by NOT driving, got sod all to do with stop start working like crap!  I've agreed with the Mrs we'll be going at least hybrid for our next car, there just isn't the chraging infrastructure or range/choice of suitable let alone always affordable EVs. Tesla no thanks currently.

100% agree with this, and I’d argue it’s a bigger issue than stop-start. We’re on the cusp of the transition but we’re not there yet and manufacturers aren’t incentivised enough to develop EV technology faster, and buyers aren’t incentivised enough to buy electric, or hybrid. EVs have had the grant cut and hybrids don’t even manage to skip VED anymore. Add in the rubbish infrastructure you mention and you can understand why it isn’t an appealing prospect for many buyers!

22 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

Ok so you're now basically kinda agreeing that they could have implemented the stop start system poorly.. which was the point I was making pages ago before the eco tirade (as I'm calling it) took it completely off track.

At no point did I say I had a problem with the idea.. it makes sense it just so illogically implemented. Hence I'd like my timer implemented please VW Group or by aftermarket adjustment.

I don’t think I’ve ever necessarily disagreed with the implementation potentially being poor, my real facepalm was for people saying things like it should be 30 secs before it cuts in, which is just silly. My personal non-VAG experience of a manual car with stop-start was positive but I’m prepared to accept it may not have been done well (and possibly deliberately and for dubious reasons!)

Consensus is not science,  this is a rational debate between two sides, both are world class scientists, it`s rather long but snowflakes should watch it.  

 

Quote

 

Before you come to any conclusion study both sides of the debate, ever heard of Climate Gate, Steve McIntyre, WUWT or Jo Nova, do some research then come back.  

I haven't come to any conclusion. I don't need to study any "debate" because I'm not qualified. 

But I do know climate change it is scientific consensus: vast majority of experts in the field have peer reviewed scientific papers and came to the agreed conclusion about climate change.

 

Before you attempt to start on any reply with your vast amount of "knowledge" on the "debate". Please do read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

 

 

Quote

Before you attempt to start on any reply with your vast amount of "knowledge" on the "debate". Please do read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

 

Surely you are not seriously suggesting anyone uses wikipedia as reference material. 🤣 🤣

38 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

 

Surely you are not seriously suggesting anyone uses wikipedia as reference material. 🤣 🤣

Yet, you use youtube? 

 

I'm not sure you understand the phase "scientific consensus"........

 

Did you even look at the article I posted? Did you notice it's an article about a highly regarded book? Should I have linked to a random wordpress?

@Bobclive2 still waiting to hear how the industrial revolution wasn’t responsible for the huge increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and subsequent temperature increases...

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I'm not sure you understand the phase "scientific consensus"........

 

Did you even look at the article I posted? Did you notice it's an article about a highly regarded book? Should I have linked to a random wordpress?

 Did you watch the debate I posted between two world class climate scientists, did you read the comments.

 

Quote

 still waiting to hear how the industrial revolution wasn’t responsible for the huge increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and subsequent temperature increases..

 

 

This link below is from NOAA, it does not exist anymore, wonder why.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20110809055839/http://www.oar.noaa.gov/spotlite/archive/images/sunclimate_3b.gif

 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-history-a-look-at-multiple-timescales-in-the-context-of-the-shakun-et-al-paper/

 

Graphs  show CO2 appears not to track temperature very well, maybe CO2 has little impact on temperature rise.

Edited 3 June, 20197 yr by Bobclive2

Quote

Did you even look at the article I posted? Did you notice it's an article about a highly regarded book? Should I have linked to a random wordpress?

 

Highly regarded by whom, it`s linked to Wikipedia, anything controversial within Wiki is treated with caution by anyone with half a brain.🙄   

17 hours ago, Bouncypete said:

You sound like Trump, your talking about CO2 that is in the environment.

 

The issue is CO2 that is stored in the earth, that has been there for millions of years and is being released today, right now adding to the existing CO2 cycle.

 

The earth is getting hotter, over and above natural cycles. There are billions of pounds to be made out of oilso its no wonder you can find people who will say otherwise, just as you used to be able to find 'doctors' who would debunk smoking warnings.

 

so how do you explain all this CO2 stored in the earth millions of years ago? when ice cores a few KMs deep taken from the north pole emphatically show atmospheric CO2 levels were 200% higher 3-5 million years ago? i doubt there were any dinosaurs driving diesels back then?

 

I think you will find most of the climate scientists are making a very good living of manipulating data.... after Al Gore said we had 12 years to live and that was 20 years ago.