1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

 

That would make sense as my diesel likes to get into 2nd as soon as it can then slips until going fast enough to fully engage.  Slowing down it wont go into 1st until nearly at a complete stop.  It's for this reason I put the box in 'S' when in slow traffic.  Keeps it fully engaged in a lower gear which I hope will make it last a bit longer.

 

Bearing in mind this is side discussion from the OP, going further sideways... I hear that in 'S' the box puts more pressure on the plates, is this true and as a result can it dynamically handle more torque in the process?  As an example, I have tuning box fitted and it makes 'D' nicer to drive but it seems to produce more when in 'S'.  Do you think the box is allowing the engine to provide more?

 

Yes Sport changes more than just the shifts points. Clutch pressures and change speeds are changed depending on type of box and vehicle and engine it's fitted to. The mapping is all pretty bespoke.

52 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

 

 

 

The Manufactures are supposed to uprate & fit stronger components for the Stop start systems...but it is well known they still skimp & the components failed early as not up to the task..case in point the batteries...mases failing at under 3yrs all around the world...some at 2yrs..(based on MK7 Golf forums)….

 

As far as emissions go well I don't buy it for short "stop" periods under 15secs.....just another false sop to the green lobby...& look where that got us when they decided to promote Diesel over Petrol as it had low CO2..so nice & green.....just ignore the well known problems with particulates which others were complaining about at the time but were ignored...now the air is paying the price..muppets!!

 

What I have found with my VAG products is they are very keen to engage stop/start. Unless there are extremes of temperatures or a battery fault stop start will engage. On the BMW's I've had and my current Jaguar they seem to need all the ducks aligned before stop start will work, engine has to be at normal temperature, cabin has to be perfect temp, electrical demand has to be within tolerance etc, they just seem to be a lot more picky than VAG.

 

Lee

1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

Bearing in mind this is side discussion from the OP, going further sideways.

 

Agreed, but the OP's question was answered in the very next post. I don't know why you would need or want to do it any other way. It alters a normal parameter that prevents S/S activation and is fully reversible should you want.

 

The only variation I have seen is to reverse the switch action, having it off by default, but I have not seen this done without physical modification.

 

The discussion went this way because some say there is no need to disable it, just use light brake pressure. I am saying that is not a good way to get round it, irrespective of what gearbox you might have.

The start/stop operation is Ok on the manual gearbox cars but too intrusive on the DSG. 

2 minutes ago, TDIum said:

The start/stop operation is Ok on the manual gearbox cars but too intrusive on the DSG. 

Agree 100% having had both in the last 4 years.

You need less than 10s for stop/start to make sense in terms of fuel economy and thus CO2 emission.

 

For the battery. I had been hooking up my 5 yr old car to a smart battery charger every other month since last winter. Now stop/start works all the time as soon as warm air starts blowing out of the vents.

 

I feel stop/start is a necessary pain fossil fuelled car drivers has to live with. It makes start-stop traffic a pain, and it sometimes cuts your engine at the worst time. But for each of those cases, there is usually a case where the system helps you sit at the traffic light in silence and saving fuel in the process.

 

So please let it do its thing. Leave the "eco reminder" messages turned on and only turn S/S off sparsely.

I dont have much traffic on my commute and i hate the S/S, ive coded it out on VCDS and also got rid of the constant warning on start. 

1 hour ago, flybynite said:

 

 

The discussion went this way because some say there is no need to disable it, just use light brake pressure. I am saying that is not a good way to get round it, irrespective of what gearbox you might have.

 

Agreed also. Pretty sure the pressure limit on the brake pedal to activate/deactivate the s/s system is the same that triggers the clutch to start engaging. That means when you release the pedal to start it is also slipping in gear. I guess it's the dsg equivalent of riding the clutch.

So the science says (if saving money bothers you) leave your engine running for more than 7 seconds and you might as well flush coins down the toilet. Train line 2 miles from my house which can make you sit there for upto 5 minutes. I always switch my engine off while most people infront of me sit there causing needless pollution and wasting money. They must be brain damaged in some way.

This weeks commute so far (sorry for the dust, car school got to pick the background colour today!)

 

Start stop been used loads so far!

6 minutes ago, ExSEAT said:

This weeks commute so far (sorry for the dust, car school got to pick the background colour today!)

 

Start stop been used loads so far!

 

So you have wasted 10hrs & 20 mins travelling 99miles...

 

at an average of 10mph & achieving 26mpg.....

 

i'd walk, take the bus...

 

The shortest journeys I do are 32miles....& hit 70mph top speeds & usually get 42-46mpg...& on longer trips I get 52mpg...from a petrol...with S/S turned off!!….

 

 

I think I cause less pollution than you with stop start turned off...…...but that's down to other factors...

Edited 23 May, 20197 yr by fabdavrav

3 minutes ago, ExSEAT said:

This weeks commute so far (sorry for the dust, car school got to pick the background colour today!)

 

Start stop been used loads so far!

That commute would do my head in. Yesterday left work with the sunroof fully open (3rd day on the trot) and after 3 miles was averaging 30mpg, then after 9 miles hit 40mpg and after 13 miles hit 44.7mpg. Journey average was 40.3mpg when I got home. Used a quarter of a tank after 3 days.

5 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

So you have wasted 10hrs & 20 mins travelling 99miles...

 

at an average of 10mph & achieving 26mpg.....

 

i'd walk, take the bus...

 

The shortest journeys I do are 32miles....& hit 70mph top speeds & usually get 42-46mpg...& on longer trips I get 52mpg...from a petrol...with S/S turned off!!….

 

 

I think I cause less pollution than you with stop start turned off...…...but that's down to other factors...

 

Was doing the speed limit up until the last 2 miles. Its an 11 mile journey there or thereabouts. Walking isnt really possible as there arent pavements to get there.

 

Normally takes 35-40 minutes wach way, there are around 4 thousand people trying to do the same thing at the same time though.

 

Will be much better next week, theres been strike action this week resulting in getting to work at 9AM instead of 7AM. Still getting paid though so all good!

1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

Agreed also. Pretty sure the pressure limit on the brake pedal to activate/deactivate the s/s system is the same that triggers the clutch to start engaging. That means when you release the pedal to start it is also slipping in gear. I guess it's the dsg equivalent of riding the clutch.

 

What he guys are doing is using the brake pedal with light enough pressure to hold the car but not heavy enough pressure to activate stop/start. This prevents stop start engaging but the clutch is sat at biting point with the car stationary,

 

Press the brake pedal hard enough to disengage the clutch and the engine will stop.

 

With wet clutch boxes and the clutches at biting point the clutch plates are lubricated and cooled with transmission fluid. With the dry clutch box you have direct friction, wear and heat.

 

Saying that Ford have had issues with clutch failure on their wet clutch boxes but they were underated for their duty. But Ford have pulled the plug on Dual clutch development and are slowly phasing out their fitment. 

 

 

Edited 23 May, 20197 yr by logiclee

Stand next to a pre-1992 car (ie. without a catalytic converter) and see how long you can last before you wish the driver would turn off his engine. It won't be long I can guarantee you.

 

Cars with catalytic converters still produce emissions. I accept they are lower now but there are far more cars on the roads now than there was in 1992. As for stop/start. Like Tesco's say, "Every little helps".

Don't get me wrong - I switch the SS back on if and when I feel it is going to be worthwhile. 

Don't shoot the messenger,I don't know whether this guy is right or wrong,but he tells it in his usual forthright Aussie way!

 

 

5 minutes ago, *JP* said:

Don't shoot the messenger,I don't know whether this guy is right or wrong,but he tells it in his usual forthright Aussie way!

 

 

Arrogant Aussie who never bothered to check out the science. Shows a quote from a so-called expert who states a car uses the same fuel idling for 10 minutes that it does firing the engine. Big difference between 7 seconds of fuel use and 10 minutes idling. This guy obviously not too good at maths.

Had to do a run to/from Heathrow T2 yesterday afternoon which if it wasn't on a weekday wouldn't be a problem. M25 completely messed up, stop start switched off because its frankly a pain in the backside in stop start motorway traffic where its constantly switching the engine on and off. Pointless and not saving anyone from anything other than stressing the battery/starter and my patience. Adding that lovely delay like your a dozy idiot not paying attention is also doubly irritating as the engine/dsg sorts it stuff out.

I'd be happy with it if you could select or worse case code it to be stationary for say 30 seconds before switching off, its wayyy too aggressive/intrusive.

Sadly I can't VCDS/OBD11 it off as its a PCH, I'm not touching anything.

21 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Arrogant Aussie who never bothered to check out the science. Shows a quote from a so-called expert who states a car uses the same fuel idling for 10 minutes that it does firing the engine. Big difference between 7 seconds of fuel use and 10 minutes idling. This guy obviously not too good at maths.

 Maybe or maybe not...

The follow up:

 

1 minute ago, *JP* said:

 Maybe or maybe not...

The follow up:

 

He did state that repeatedly starting an engine would not hurt the battery though.

Another idea I had was to code it into 'P' position.  The guys I was chatting too agreed that would be better but they couldn't find a way to make it work.  I'm sure someone at VAG could do it.  If you have time to put it into 'P' then the time it takes to put it into 'D' the engine would have started etc.

So many comments here along the lines of “it would be better if it didn’t come on until you were stopped for 15 seconds or more” that are missing the point. The car doesn’t know how long it will be stopped for! And if it waits 15 seconds before stopping, that’s 15 seconds wasted time that it could’ve not been releasing pollutants. 

11 minutes ago, maffyou said:

So many comments here along the lines of “it would be better if it didn’t come on until you were stopped for 15 seconds or more” that are missing the point. The car doesn’t know how long it will be stopped for! And if it waits 15 seconds before stopping, that’s 15 seconds wasted time that it could’ve not been releasing pollutants. 

Said by someone thinking about his kids, which is a good thing and which most forget.

16 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Said by someone thinking about his kids, which is a good thing and which most forget.

I just don’t think people think at all, too often. They think “oh it’s such a tiny amount it doesn’t make any difference” but forget that there are over 30 millions cars doing god knows how many hundreds of trips every year in the U.K. alone. Several hundred million “very tiny amounts” add up to an awfully large amount. 

 

My Qashqai claimed to have saved around 10kg of CO2 emissions per year through using stop start (it was a bit higher than that actually, per 10k miles). If every U.K. car saved the same amount a year that’s well over 300 million tonnes fewer CO2 emissions per year. Hardly insignificant is it?