New Karoq battery issue

[DaveWK]

Maybe this regenerative battery charging is another example of 'too clever by half' technology.

I drive for economy and rarely need to brake firmly. Decelerating towards a red light I'm passed by numerous drivers who then have to anchor up as I gently coast to a stop. By the time I get there the lights may have changed so no fuel wasting acceleration from a standing start for me.

A long steep hill on my regular route (Kelsall, Cheshire) is a dual carriageway. Off the accelerator and doing about 45mph at the top I'm overtaken by those at 60 to 70.

Looking ahead I see their brake lights going on in sequence, one behind each other as they're now frightened and too fast for the descent but I'm now at a safe 60mph without touching the accelerator or need for brakes.

The downside maybe is that the battery is not getting a full charge as the computer knows better

(like the Boeing 737 Max 8).

 

 

 

[rayx]

11 minutes ago, DaveWK said:

Decelerating towards a red light I'm passed by numerous drivers who then have to anchor up as I gently coast to a stop.

Off the accelerator and doing about 45mph at the top I'm overtaken by those at 60 to 70.

I'm now at a safe 60mph without touching the accelerator or need for brakes.

 

That is the exact driving in the overrun mode

 

[Alsiman]

On 14/06/2019 at 19:05, Kenny R said:

The battery management system in stop/start car is very complex and the battery is never fully charged to allow for energy recovery from the alternator when braking or deceleration. 

Your worrying too much and your original battery was probably perfectly serviceable.

There are many conditions that prevent the stop/ start system operating apart from a duff battery. 

Conditions for the automatic engine shut down (stop phase)

› The gearshift lever is in Neutral.

› The clutch pedal is not depressed.

› The driver has fastened the seat belt.

› The driver's door is closed.

› The bonnet is closed.

› The vehicle is at a standstill.

› The engine is at operating temperature.

› The charge state of the vehicle battery is sufficient.

› The stationary vehicle is not on a steep slope or a steep downhill section.

› The engine speed is less than 1200 1/min.

› The temperature of the vehicle battery is not too low or too high.

› There is sufficient pressure in the braking system.

› The difference between the outdoor- and the set temperature in the interior is

not too great.

› The vehicle speed since the last time the engine was switched off was greater

than 3 km/h.

› The front wheels are not turned excessively (the steering angle is less than 3/4

of a steering wheel revolution).

 

Conditions for an automatic restart (start phase)

› The clutch is depressed.

› The max./min. temperature is set.

› The Defrost function for the windshield is switched on.

› A high blower stage has been selected.

› The START STOP button is pressed.

 

Conditions for an automatic restart without driver intervention

› The vehicle moves at a speed of more than 3 km/h.

› The difference between the outdoor- and the set temperature in the interior is

too great.

› The charge state of the vehicle battery is not sufficient.

› There is insufficient pressure in the braking system.

 

Thanks

[mgm105]

Thank you Alsiman

[kenfowler3966]

My new car two weeks ago had a flat battery next day.  I put it down to playing around with the settings for some time with ignition on. AA boosted the car and I put it on charge for 4 hours with my smart charger.

Ten the following week after two long trips totaling 150 miles, flat again. AAboosted and tested, said alternator was fine, car battery only charging at 10 amps when it should take 70.

I drove the car 20 miles back to the dealer last Saturday, with AA following to make sure I got there. He explained the issue at the dealer, and the car was "fixed" yesterday, with a new battery fitted.

 

AA guy says he has had a number of similar call outs to new Skodas, Audis and VW, all with the same battery fitted.

 

Hopefully ok when I collect today.

[Berisford]

3 hours ago, kenfowler3966 said:

 

AA guy says he has had a number of similar call outs to new Skodas, Audis and VW, all with the same battery fitted.

 

Hopefully ok when I collect today.

 

...and the original battery was?

 

[kenfowler3966]

Who knows, it was hidden inside an insulating cover which I didn't disturb, and is now gone. Indeed it is only the AA so far who have opened the bonnet.

[BigEjit]

@kenfowler3966

 

Check the build date of your vehicle. If it was built several months ago and you have only recently recieved it with delivery miles, that would explain the cause...

[kenfowler3966]

Built March probably as components with late Feb dates in places

[BigEjit]

That’s the cause. Sulphation damage- The battery was deep discharged by being left connected for months in storage and not getting checked and recharged.

 

 

Edited 5 September, 2020 by BigEjit

[anombres]

On 04/09/2020 at 16:44, kenfowler3966 said:

My new car two weeks ago had a flat battery next day.  I put it down to playing around with the settings for some time with ignition on. AA boosted the car and I put it on charge for 4 hours with my smart charger.

Ten the following week after two long trips totaling 150 miles, flat again. AAboosted and tested, said alternator was fine, car battery only charging at 10 amps when it should take 70.

I drove the car 20 miles back to the dealer last Saturday, with AA following to make sure I got there. He explained the issue at the dealer, and the car was "fixed" yesterday, with a new battery fitted.

 

AA guy says he has had a number of similar call outs to new Skodas, Audis and VW, all with the same battery fitted.

 

Hopefully ok when I collect today.

 

Hi Ken Fowler, I also have Karoq RHD and just interested to know how are you able to pop open the hood when your battery is flat dead and car is locked. I experienced this twice already, if car is locked and battery is dead, you can manually get in but cannot open the passenger door even from inside, and the passenger door blocks the lever that pops the bonnet. I called Skoda service and they can't open it also and had to send a tow truck to collect my car and bring to their shop. Would be great to understand what was done in your case to pop open the bonnet to access the car battery.

[anombres]

On 25/07/2019 at 06:44, DaveWK said:

My 1.6 SE-L dsg  td Karoq was delivered in September 2018. A couple of months later the dash panel screen showed a warning, "Battery voltage low. Take a drive or Recharge". That only occurred the one time.

1st July, Manchester Airport car park after two weeks away - battery completely flat. In the event of such a calamity I had taken the precaution of bringing my battery booster which was secured in the boot.

Without battery power the doors and boot won't open. Called the RAC.

Whilst waiting (a long time 'cos he went to the wrong car park) I had a look at the manual, which for some pedantic reason I had downloaded to my phone.  Discovered that the manual key concealed in the fob can open the driver's door when the plastic cover over the secret keyhole is prised off. Great, I'm in the car but cannot open the bonnet 'cos the passenger door panel covers the release lever; and the other doors and boot are still locked!

The manual provides the answer to the locked boot. Drop the rear seats, crawl in to the boot space, unclip a plastic cover near the lock, insert a screwdriver or similar implement and turn. Decided to wait for the RAC.

RAC technician arrived and immediately leaned in and popped the bonnet release. "How you do that?" I ask. "Brute Force", he replies. Checks the battery and gives it 'Nil Points'. Connects a booster, not even a click. Adds another-nothing. Connects long leads from his van and adds them. Looks like a hedgehog of connectors. Revs the engine of the van - gets a click and nothing.

Agrees the battery is completely not very good. New RAC branded replacement fitted.  All is good.

I had left a Nextbase dashcam on 'shock' setting to record only if the car received a good smack whilst parked. Will not do that again but I think the car battery was faulty to start with.

To avoid the problem in future I'll connect the dashcam to the battery booster, not the 12v car socket.

No doubt the dashcam pulls a little current in standby but shouldn't be enough to flatten a good car battery in a couple of weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Dave, thanks for sharing your experience, and exactly same as what I encountered already a couple of times. I also have Karoq RHD and just interested to know how exactly RAC was able to pop open the hood when your battery is flat dead and car is locked. I experienced this twice already, if car is locked and battery is dead, you can manually get in but cannot open the passenger door even from inside, and the passenger door blocks the lever that pops the bonnet. I called Skoda service and they can't open it also and had to send a tow truck to collect my car and bring to their shop. Would be great to understand what was done in your case to pop open the bonnet to access the car battery.

[kenfowler3966]

2 hours ago, anombres said:

 

Hi Ken Fowler, I also have Karoq RHD and just interested to know how are you able to pop open the hood when your battery is flat dead and car is locked. I experienced this twice already, if car is locked and battery is dead, you can manually get in but cannot open the passenger door even from inside, and the passenger door blocks the lever that pops the bonnet. I called Skoda service and they can't open it also and had to send a tow truck to collect my car and bring to their shop. Would be great to understand what was done in your case to pop open the bonnet to access the car battery.

Clearly the battery had some power left as although the engine would not crank the door locks still worked.

I will be careful not to fully flatten it in the future if the issue arises again.

Thanks for the warning.

As car is hardly being used during lockdown again I have  it on charge this morning for safety.

[anombres]

18 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

Clearly the battery had some power left as although the engine would not crank the door locks still worked.

I will be careful not to fully flatten it in the future if the issue arises again.

Thanks for the warning.

As car is hardly being used during lockdown again I have  it on charge this morning for safety.

 

Thanks for the feedback and advise. The challenge was that my car battery did not give any "low charge" warning, and got flat after just a week from last car use when everything seemed like normal. So it can potentially happen again without pre-warning. If I get a slightest hint that car battery is getting weak, I shall have it replaced immediately as it is a much bigger hassle to end up with flat dead battery (can't open passenger door, can't pull lever, can't pop open the bonnet, which means cannot access to replace battery).

[kenfowler3966]

I did wonder if you could plug a battery charger into the 12v socket after opening the drivers door with the emergency key? After charging for a bit it may put enough into the dead battery and allow the other doors to be opened?

[anombres]

There were some earlier discussions on that, there might be some risk of affecting some of the electronics and might cause more damage.

 

Great if someone can share expert view on this approach, or if anyone has already tried with positive results.

[DSL]

Speaking as a non expert but having messed around with the electrics on my Disco 3 & Disco 4, incl fitting second batteries, have a little experience in this area.  Would only work if the socket not “protected” by a relay.  If the socket is permanently live then it doesn’t have a relay in there so is not looking for the voltage from the crank battery via the ignition key.  Then a trickle charger would add volts to the system, enough to power up the locks.  If it is protected, and the battery is dead, then the voltage it’s looking for will prob be too low, socket will not connect to the battery and the rest of the car.
 

Now talking of aux sockets, isn’t the boot socket, beside the little torch, perm live?  That might be a route to get a trickle charger in though to give enough volts to open the locks.  Bit of a clamber from the driver’s seat but not impossible.  
 

Another route the LR owners use is via towing electrics, specifically the permanently live feed for the caravan fridges.  They even have has specific adapters made to connect a C-tek charger to the main battery as a routine way of charging.  Works well as long as peeps remember to disconnect before driving off.   
 

PS This is the jumper cable arrangement used to make a socket, or series of sockets, perm live off the crank battery.  No idea how it would look on a Karoq but the principle would be the same.

 

 

Re batteries sitting dead for long stretches after manufacture, my car was built late July 19, but not picked up by me until June 20.  After 5 months and 4,100 miles it hasn’t missed a beat.  It was a Skoda UK preregistered car, wonder if it was charged during that time or the battery was changed as part of the PDI process.  

Edited 29 November, 2020 by DSL

[croquemonsieur]

The socket is permanently live on my Karoq so trickle charging a C-TEK charger via the cigar lighter socket works.  My recollection in previous threads, is that it was more or less decided that trickle charging through the socket didn't actually do any damage.  I did this for a while during the 1st lockdown - bought the special C-TEK adaptor.  Battery is fine so far but the car is only 15months old.

 

My model of the C-TEK charger has a sulphation repair mode, but whether that would fully rectify a seriously damaged battery, I don't know.  I think the charger when connecting up, somehow lets you know if there is sulphation damage.

[DSL]

Forget my theory of possibly having a replacement battery at PDI stage, one of the posts has 2619 marked on in dots.  

[anombres]

7 hours ago, DSL said:

Speaking as a non expert but having messed around with the electrics on my Disco 3 & Disco 4, incl fitting second batteries, have a little experience in this area.  Would only work if the socket not “protected” by a relay.  If the socket is permanently live then it doesn’t have a relay in there so is not looking for the voltage from the crank battery via the ignition key.  Then a trickle charger would add volts to the system, enough to power up the locks.  If it is protected, and the battery is dead, then the voltage it’s looking for will prob be too low, socket will not connect to the battery and the rest of the car.
 

Now talking of aux sockets, isn’t the boot socket, beside the little torch, perm live?  That might be a route to get a trickle charger in though to give enough volts to open the locks.  Bit of a clamber from the driver’s seat but not impossible.  
 

Another route the LR owners use is via towing electrics, specifically the permanently live feed for the caravan fridges.  They even have has specific adapters made to connect a C-tek charger to the main battery as a routine way of charging.  Works well as long as peeps remember to disconnect before driving off.   
 

PS This is the jumper cable arrangement used to make a socket, or series of sockets, perm live off the crank battery.  No idea how it would look on a Karoq but the principle would be the same.

 

 

Re batteries sitting dead for long stretches after manufacture, my car was built late July 19, but not picked up by me until June 20.  After 5 months and 4,100 miles it hasn’t missed a beat.  It was a Skoda UK preregistered car, wonder if it was charged during that time or the battery was changed as part of the PDI process.  

Thanks for sharing your experience, much appreciated.

[anombres]

5 hours ago, croquemonsieur said:

The socket is permanently live on my Karoq so trickle charging a C-TEK charger via the cigar lighter socket works.  My recollection in previous threads, is that it was more or less decided that trickle charging through the socket didn't actually do any damage.  I did this for a while during the 1st lockdown - bought the special C-TEK adaptor.  Battery is fine so far but the car is only 15months old.

 

My model of the C-TEK charger has a sulphation repair mode, but whether that would fully rectify a seriously damaged battery, I don't know.  I think the charger when connecting up, somehow lets you know if there is sulphation damage.

 

Good to know, thanks! As long as I'm able to open the passenger door even with flat battery, this works for me!

[anombres]

5 hours ago, croquemonsieur said:

The socket is permanently live on my Karoq so trickle charging a C-TEK charger via the cigar lighter socket works.  My recollection in previous threads, is that it was more or less decided that trickle charging through the socket didn't actually do any damage.  I did this for a while during the 1st lockdown - bought the special C-TEK adaptor.  Battery is fine so far but the car is only 15months old.

 

My model of the C-TEK charger has a sulphation repair mode, but whether that would fully rectify a seriously damaged battery, I don't know.  I think the charger when connecting up, somehow lets you know if there is sulphation damage.

Can you please share specific model of C-TEK charger and socket adapter you used, am thinking of buying the exact same one. Thanks again. 👍🏻

[AGFalco]

You can also plug a battery in through the OBDII port to supply power to the battery/car. eg:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/154011818178?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=154011818178&targetid=1065995239677&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045682&poi=&campaignid=10204071591&mkgroupid=104953044434&rlsatarget=aud-381667280803:pla-1065995239677&abcId=1145987&merchantid=110256524&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqo3-BRDoARIsAE5vnaJg7HQmk80HwEWvgyc-bH0JyKvMNcYvO1i4TcNbSIaq6Gw9um0VRTgaAkODEALw_wcB

 

Thanks, AG Falco

[croquemonsieur]

Following recommendation by others on this group, my intelligent charger is the CTEK MXS 5.0, meaning it can charge at 5amps.  There is a cheaper 3.8amp model called the Stop/start.  The battery in the Karoq as in most cars with stop/start isn't any old lead acid one, but has to be able to withstand many more charge/discharge cycles and so mostly a more robust EFB type, but it doesn't make any difference to the setting on this charger.  However should the car be fitted or ever be refitted with an even more up market (i.e. super robust) AGM type, then there is a special setting on the charger for this.  I think I bought my CTEK from Amazon - there was a confusing range of CTEK chargers there last spring, but I believe many of these were older models, now out of production.

 

The cigarette Lighter Adaptor is sold separately, as presumably you can't use this socket on all cars - I believe Fords for instance, but not sure on those cars.  I park my car on the public road, so also bought a rubber double-ramp-profile cable protector, to prevent passers by tripping on the cable laid across the footpath.  This was thoroughly tested some months ago by one youngster on a tricycle, who kept bumping his bike over the protector for more than 5mins.

 

It's worth reading the following earlier threads below and maybe be just check with a dealer or Skoda directly that the cigarette lighter socket is always on, in the version of the Karoq, you're interested in.  I should note that if alternatively thinking of connecting the charger direct to the battery terminals, this can cause damage to some of the electronics.  +ve terminal maybe OK, but the -ve lead must be fixed to a special tab on the bulkhead.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/479718-karoq-190tsi-4x4-sportline/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/480256-battery-issue/

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/479354-karoq-vs-lockdown/

[anombres]

I don't have AC power source that can trickle charge the battery where I park my car. Hence, I'm planning to have constant monitoring of the battery strength to avoid ending up with totally dead battery (to avoid the hassle of opening bonnet when battery goes totally flat). My questions are (appreciate all your advise and guidance):

 

1. Is it ok to leave a voltmeter plugged in to the cigarette socket charger all the time, including when car engine is off and parked? So I know the battery strength at all times? Will it not drain the battery?

 

2. If you have purchased and used one, which brand/model is that? And which are the good ones?

 

Thanks in advance.