1.4 or 1.5 ?

[teescom09]

No, its a 2018M3CP DCT. As I said, I wish it were manual and definitely would have been if it was a torque converter,  will never have another  of those apart from in a large suv etc when there’s no choice. Compared to the A6 it is more responsive to initial inputs, nearly as quick as pulling away with a manual. And I really like the way it doesn’t creep, which is my biggest issue with autos. It can if you want it to but it’s a manual input. 

 

I guess the op is utterly confused over his options now. Seems if used, a 1.4 manual is best, if new with warranty not really a problem either way. 

[ords]

On 27/07/2019 at 15:16, teescom09 said:

Had about 70 cars, about half new. Done well over 1 million miles in them. All bar 4 have been manual. 1 slush box and 3 DCT. One of the DCT(Ford)  had clutch packs fitted after 96K. None of the manuals has ever given me a problem whatsoever. Not even a clutch in my ownership and thats with zero gearbox maintenance. Think that says it all!!!  

How can you compare  the reliability of a manual vs auto.  Far more to go wrong in an auto.

[ords]

17 hours ago, teescom09 said:

None. As I said, had 4 autos and one of those broke at 96k and is a Ford Power shift. The other Autos were a Cortina GXL in 70’s ( ruined the car) A6 quattro new, M3 new plus the Galaxy. Other pushing 70 cars all manual and trouble free. 

I'm confused by a lot of your statements, but will agree on the the Cortina statement. Looking back, it was so gutless but then in those days I didn't know any better. No power steering either.

[ords]

17 hours ago, teescom09 said:

Only vag dct ive had is a 66 plate A6 3.0 tdi quattro. I actually raised a fault on it at its first service complaining it was dangerous. They said they often get that but unable to do anything about it. Problem was If you stopped at a junction especially if the engine stopped too and then went for what would normally be a suitable gap to get out. By the time it pulled away which seemed forever, you were in trouble, in panic the throttle gets floored and then it absolutely takes off making it difficult to control out of the junction. Absolutely **** gearboxes. Only thing that spoiled the car. The BMW DCT is vastly superior. But still wish I’d got manual. 

FFS can’t you read 🥵

There are threads here that comment on the later models being more sensitive with the start stop operation

[ords]

16 hours ago, teescom09 said:

 

I bought it brand new and It was traded in, loved the car, just not the box. It’s still slow even without stop start. The BMW reacts quicker and is just far better. Doesn’t creep either. Wish it was manual, but seems most want DCT so didn’t want to make things harder when ai sell it, sad really but you have to consider that. I just don’t relish having one out of warranty. 

Buy an extended warranty

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, teescom09 said:

No, its a 2018M3CP DCT. As I said, I wish it were manual and definitely would have been if it was a torque converter,  will never have another  of those apart from in a large suv etc when there’s no choice. Compared to the A6 it is more responsive to initial inputs, nearly as quick as pulling away with a manual. And I really like the way it doesn’t creep, which is my biggest issue with autos. It can if you want it to but it’s a manual input. 

 

I guess the op is utterly confused over his options now. Seems if used, a 1.4 manual is best, if new with warranty not really a problem either way. 

 

The way it's going you wont have a choice. In many of the more powerful BMW or Audi models it's ZF8HP or nothing now. They just don't have a manual or DCT to handle the torque. No BMW expert but is it just the M3 and M4 now left with the DCT? Audi has a 600NM limit on the DL501 and I believe the BMW is 700NM but not with AWD.

Even Toyota with the new Supra, only available with ZF8HP.

 

That's until we are all EV though and the Manual, Dual Clutch, Auto discussions become irrelevant.

Edited 29 July, 2019 by logiclee

[teescom09]

2 hours ago, ords said:

How can you compare  the reliability of a manual vs auto.  Far more to go wrong in an auto.

Exactly, well put. So we are accepting that its ok to go wrong? Strange times. 

Edited 29 July, 2019 by teescom09

[teescom09]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

The way it's going you wont have a choice. In many of the more powerful BMW or Audi models it's ZF8HP or nothing now. They just don't have a manual or DCT to handle the torque. No BMW expert but is it just the M3 and M4 now left with the DCT? Audi has a 600NM limit on the DL501 and I believe the BMW is 700NM but not with AWD.

Even Toyota with the new Supra, only available with ZF8HP.

 

That's until we are all EV though and the Manual, Dual Clutch, Auto discussions become irrelevant.

No, M2 still uses DCT, not sure about others. The new M3/4 will have 4wd as current M5 hence the slush box. They are also doing a 2wd version  which will be manual, BMW have no intention of dropping manuals. Not sure which auto it will have. 

 

All EV is a long way off if it happens at all, too far away to bother me. 

[teescom09]

1 hour ago, ords said:

Buy an extended warranty

If you have an faith in such things. Arn’t Clutches (friction parts) classed as wear and tear?

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, teescom09 said:

No, M2 still uses DCT, not sure about others. The new M3/4 will have 4wd as current M5 hence the slush box. 

 

I think slush box is a bit harsh. The ZF8HP can lockup the torque converter from 1200rpm in 1st gear and it's a direct drive box from there on.  Change times are now down to 160ms.

But as it's just a customer box it's down to the buyer to do the mapping.  Surprising how different they can feel, for a few weeks we had a diesel Jag and a M140i on the drive and you would not have believed they were the same box.

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, teescom09 said:

If you have an faith in such things. Arn’t Clutches (friction parts) classed as wear and tear?

 

And so the battle begins.

 

When the clutchpack first started slipping in our Octavia Skoda wanted photo's of the clutchpack emailing to them with measurements. If it was wear they were not going to pay out even though it was full manufacturers warranty and only 26k miles.

I told the dealer if the answer from Skoda was no then I would be getting an independent engineer to examine the clutches.

 

Fortunately Skoda said yes but that was a worrying week.

 

Lee

Edited 29 July, 2019 by logiclee

[Lingnoi]

On 24/07/2019 at 11:57, harrylime said:

How exactly do you adapt your driving style when you are stuck in a crawling traffic jam that goes on for miles, not exactly a rare occurrence?

 

Don't crawl at 2mph, come to standstill and a complete stop where possible and the clutch disengages and isn't slipping all the time. Ditto on a hill going up hill, avoid dragging the clutch for too long. The DSG gearbox does have the ability to sense it's got too hot and will shutoff to protect itself but better to avoid that altogether.

The Engineering Explained guy on YouTube explains it quite well:

 

Someone else has mentioned hillhold, my dry clutch DSG has this and it's great.

[Ootohere]

'If' traffic is in near gridlock and was to just move at 2mph you have little choice but to go with the flow as sitting there like a muppet will have cars jumping in front as they lane swap.

Try driving at just 2mph, it really is not easy.

[Tilt]

I don't see why you should never put the car in neutral say, at traffic lights for instance....or whatever scenario he uses in the video.

 

And note he states that the clutches only fully disengage with a certain pressure on the brake pedal....

 

Mine is a wet clutch system but if I put just enough pressure on the brake pedal (just enough to stop the car moving forward) I can feel it trying to pull, and if i press a little harder on the brake pedal it still wants to pull so obviously still trying to engage the clutch.

 

I nearly always use neutral and just keep an eye on the traffic lights, or the brake lights a few vehicles in front, or look for the traffic flow stopping from the other direction(s)....

 

For crawling traffic I just push over to +/- so it stays in first gear if necessary...

 

I had a new DMF fitted in 2011 without fitting new clutches, and the car is still (fingers crossed) going well...

Edited 29 July, 2019 by Tilt

[logiclee]

49 minutes ago, Tilt said:

I don't see why you should never put the car in neutral say, at traffic lights for instance....or whatever scenario he uses in the video.

 

And note he states that the clutches only fully disengage with a certain pressure on the brake pedal....

 

Mine is a wet clutch system but if I put just enough pressure on the brake pedal (just enough to stop the car moving forward) I can feel it trying to pull, and if i press a little harder on the brake pedal it still wants to pull so obviously still trying to engage the clutch.

 

I nearly always use neutral and just keep an eye on the traffic lights, or the brake lights a few vehicles in front, or look for the traffic flow stopping from the other direction(s)....

 

For crawling traffic I just push over to +/- so it stays in first gear if necessary...

 

I had a new DMF fitted in 2011 without fitting new clutches, and the car is still (fingers crossed) going well...

 

The wet clutch box has completely different clutch control and will always have differing levels of drag in Drive. VAG say the wear and heat is negligible if the brakes are fully engaged or in autohold for models with the feature.

For the DQ200 dry clutch the clutches are fully disengaged when the brakes are sufficiently applied. light brake pressure will result in creep, on some models this will also slightly raise idle speed.

 

 

[ords]

6 hours ago, teescom09 said:

If you have an faith in such things. Arn’t Clutches (friction parts) classed as wear and tear?

We're talking about auto boxes. I have a Skoda all components warranty & would expect all parts in the gearbox to be covered.  If we're talking about manual boxes then I accept a clutch would not be covered.

[ords]

46 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

The wet clutch box has completely different clutch control and will always have differing levels of drag in Drive. VAG say the wear and heat is negligible if the brakes are fully engaged or in autohold for models with the feature.

For the DQ200 dry clutch the clutches are fully disengaged when the brakes are sufficiently applied. light brake pressure will result in creep, on some models this will also slightly raise idle speed.

 

 

Surely you have an auto for ease of driving.  I'm not going to be continually shifting from D to N to D all the time.  This just going to create more wear & tear. If the car is moving on idle speed the clutches are fully engaged so there is no slipping which some people have mentioned. 

[xman]

1 hour ago, ords said:

We're talking about auto boxes. I have a Skoda all components warranty & would expect all parts in the gearbox to be covered.  If we're talking about manual boxes then I accept a clutch would not be covered.

Only original factory extended warranty bought at time of first registration covers DSG comprehensively. 

As you have said "all components warranty" and your car is 2013 vintage, this looks as if it's the Skoda finance extended warranty, an aftermarket insurance product. Clutches are specifically excluded from the warranty as a wear and tear item.

In the case of your DQ200, the clutch pack is not inside the gearbox, but external in a similar way to a manual clutch, ie between flywheel and gearbox input shaft.

Edited 29 July, 2019 by xman

[xman]

My last experience of 1.5tsi/DSG, I was surprised when driving a new 19 plate courtesy 1.5tsi DSG octavia that applying the handbrake didn't disengage the clutches while in D. Came to a  standstill at a busy junction, traffic lights on red, in a queue, handbrake on, released footbrake, engine self picked up revs, car fought and won over handbrake and lunged forward without any throttle, an expletive ridden moment. Also, in a slow moving traffic queue going uphill over the long bridge, 1.5 tsi engine was juddering noticeably all the time whilst moving slowly.

 

Edited 29 July, 2019 by xman

[logiclee]

7 hours ago, xman said:

Only original factory extended warranty bought at time of first registration covers DSG comprehensively. 

 

 

Sadly even that is not true.

 

There are limitations for clutch wear even in the Manufacturers new car warranty. Skoda wanted measurement and photos of my clutch pack before they would authorise repairs and mine was still in manufacturers warranty.

[logiclee]

6 hours ago, xman said:

My last experience of 1.5tsi/DSG, I was surprised when driving a new 19 plate courtesy 1.5tsi DSG octavia that applying the handbrake didn't disengage the clutches while in D. Came to a  standstill at a busy junction, traffic lights on red, in a queue, handbrake on, released footbrake, engine self picked up revs, car fought and won over handbrake and lunged forward without any throttle, an expletive ridden moment. Also, in a slow moving traffic queue going uphill over the long bridge, 1.5 tsi engine was juddering noticeably all the time whilst moving slowly.

 

 

That has always been so on DSG. But on cars with DSG, EPB and autohold you can pull up to a stop and release the footbrake. The car will sit their until you press the throttle.

[logiclee]

8 hours ago, ords said:

Surely you have an auto for ease of driving.  I'm not going to be continually shifting from D to N to D all the time.  This just going to create more wear & tear. If the car is moving on idle speed the clutches are fully engaged so there is no slipping which some people have mentioned. 

 

On the dry clutch box fully releasing the brake will fully engage the clutch so you will move forward on tickover in 1st. If that is too fast then light brake pressure will partially disengage the clutch and you can get slip, more brake pressure will disengage the clutches completely.

 

On the wet clutch boxes these will happily slip even when the brakes are fully released, in slow moving traffic they can actually slip in 2nd rather than changing to 1st for smoother progress. This is perfectly OK for lubricated wet clutches.

 

 

Premature failure of DSG clutchpacks is very rarely down to wear and tear in traffic etc. I've had 5 clutchpacks replaced and all these were under 30k miles.

 

[TDIum]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

That has always been so on DSG. But on cars with DSG, EPB and autohold you can pull up to a stop and release the footbrake. The car will sit their until you press the throttle.

 

The car uses the brakes to do this, at least that's how it works on cars with manual gear boxes. 

 

That video from Engineering Explained is somewhat overdone. Never do this, children, and don't do that etc.

[logiclee]

1 minute ago, TDIum said:

 

The car uses the brakes to do this, at least that's how it works on cars with manual gear boxes. 

 

 

 

Yes autohold maintains hydraulic pressure on all four brakes. If the time period is exceeded the EPB takes over. 

That's why autohold is not available with manual handbrake.

[xman]

However Octavia 3 does not have EPB, just a conventional handbrake.

As there is a warning light when handbrake is applied, it wouldn't have been rocket science for programmers to release the DSG Clutches.