1.4 or 1.5 ?

[xman]

Maybe when they fit the PEMS unit on the back of the car, and the car kangaroos, it keeps dropping off....

😁

[harrylime]

19 hours ago, Lingnoi said:

I'll chip in on this thread. I have the 1.4TSi 140 (pre cylinder deactivation) and it's a DSG. Lovely smooth car that pulls everywhere in the rev range. Very economical too. The DSG gearbox is great and normally damn near perfect. But here at the bad bits, slow speed manoeuvres e.g. tight parking spaces are jerky and awkward but I can live with it. Engine's great but mine whistles when cold (turbo I presume) and sounds rough when cold (almost like a grinding noise) though both disappear when the engine's warm. The engine takes an age to warm up the oil to operating temperature i.e. 74C, in the winter it can take a very long time but the heater works quickly thanks to exhaust manifold being embedded in the cylinder head.

IMHO the DSG gearbox is nothing to be scared of but be aware of its limitations and you have to learn/adapt your driving to get smooth driving. Crawling along in walking pace traffic is a potential way to fry the clutches if you let the drag alot, a traditional torque convertor auto gearbox has none of those worries and is smoother at very slow speed.

How exactly do you adapt your driving style when you are stuck in a crawling traffic jam that goes on for miles, not exactly a rare occurrence?

[Ootohere]

By moving the shifter to 'S' to stop it hunting between 1st and 2nd, and remember to be easy on the accelerator.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

By moving the shifter to 'S' to stop it hunting between 1st and 2nd, and remember to be easy on the accelerator.

 

I'm not familiar with DSG so talking out my ar5e as usual, but think I can see the logic behind what you say - does that mean because Sport uses higher rev upshifts then you're more likely to stay in first gear?

 

If I had a DSG in crawling traffic, I'd be using 'N' whenever the car came to a temporary stop - just like I would a manual.  A conventional gearbox is different, but can't get my head around what happens in a DSG when you sit with your foot on the brake in either S or D.

Edited 24 July, 2019 by Guest

[Ootohere]

@Scot5

Exactly that. I spend many an hour in and out of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth and Aberdeen with DQ200 DSG's in 'S'  which will crawl along just fine.

I must say as much as i like 7 speed dry clutch DSG with a manual handbrake,  E-Brakes & Wet Clutch DSG's with Autohold is much more relaxing. 

 

No need to put in 'N', and a lot of the time i leave Stop / Start enabled.

 

Not all VW Group cars as they leave the factory can be in 'Autohold' and stationary without the Brake Lights being on which i find ridiculous.

They can be changed so as the Brake Lights are not on though.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/432645-vw-group-vehicles-autohold-do-the-rear-brake-lights-come-on

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/433302-auto-hold-brake-lights

 

Edited 24 July, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[TDIum]

For non-DSG-ers: The reason for not putting it into N in crawling traffic is you have to hoof the brake before putting it back into D, unless you are going above walking pace. 

Alternatively put the DSG in Eco mode, its smoother and it disengages the clutch and coasts when you take your foot off the gas pedal. 

[ords]

13 minutes ago, TDIum said:

For non-DSG-ers: The reason for not putting it into N in crawling traffic is you have to hoof the brake before putting it back into D, unless you are going above walking pace. 

Alternatively put the DSG in Eco mode, its smoother and it disengages the clutch and coasts when you take your foot off the gas pedal. 

Switching from N to D all the time is going put more wear on the switches, solenoids & other components.  It also takes away the reason for having an auto in the 1st place.

However, I do try to leave a reasonable gap before moving off so I don't have to hold back the car with the brakes too much.

[TDIum]

Yes, the DSG is designed so that you can sit in D with your foot on the brake indefinitely. 

There may have been some faults over the years but it's not a chocolate teapot. 

[Rodge]

38 minutes ago, TDIum said:

Alternatively put the DSG in Eco mode, its smoother and it disengages the clutch and coasts when you take your foot off the gas pedal. 

That sounds like a good idea in very slow traffic, as it should save clutch wear.

With a manual in slow traffic I routinely put it in gear and let it trundle along on idle revs with no feet on the pedals. I gather that if you do that with a DSG it will continuously slip the clutch as it pretends to be an old-fashioned auto.

[ords]

4 hours ago, Rodge said:

That sounds like a good idea in very slow traffic, as it should save clutch wear.

With a manual in slow traffic I routinely put it in gear and let it trundle along on idle revs with no feet on the pedals. I gather that if you do that with a DSG it will continuously slip the clutch as it pretends to be an old-fashioned auto.

I'd have thought that would cause less wear as you're not holding it back with the brakes. That's why I try to leave a reasonable gap before moving off.

[logiclee]

44 minutes ago, ords said:

I'd have thought that would cause less wear as you're not holding it back with the brakes. That's why I try to leave a reasonable gap before moving off.

 

The DQ200 completely disengages the clutches when stationary and the foot brake is applied with sufficient pressure. You can feel the clutches engage when you lift the brake pedal.

 

The DQ250 is slightly different as the clutches are held closer for immediate creep but as they are lubricated the wear and heat build up is negligible.

 

The DQ200 in traffic is designed to have a very low 1st gear so will hardly ever slip slow traffic. The DQ250 will happily slip in 2nd gear in traffic although this is down to individual model mapping and seems more common on diesel.

 

But after all that in my experience it doesn't matter how you drive. It's all down to luck on the DQ200.

As posted earlier I've had 5. Both petrol and diesel, some used for urban city cars, some for mixed driving and my Mk3 Octavia was a motorway commuter. They also had different drivers but I still had warranty work on 4 of them.

The two Yeti's I leased were the same 1.2TSi's DSG. Same colour, same spec, same build week. One was driven by my retired Dad (A retirement present I got for him) and just used to fetch the shopping and a run out to their holiday home. One was driven by myself on my motorway commute.

Both Yeti's had exactly the same failure mode, clutch slip started when changing into 4th and then started noticing it in 2nd. Both less than two years old and both less than 20k miles.

The failure on our Fabia 1.2TSi DSG was judder pulling away in 1st so a different fault on a different clutch pack. The Fabia was pretty much a city car, had clutch pack replaced.

The Octavia was a motorway commuter. Started noticing slight slip on change into 4th and dealer agreed. Clutch pack was changed and failed completely meaning the mechatronic and clutch pack needed to be replaced. While it was in they replaced the gear lever as the chrome was peeling off. A few weeks later the new gear lever started throwing up "Error Leaving Workshop" faults. So I ended up on gear lever No3.

 

So in my experience your driving style and type of driving makes no difference.

 

The DQ250 DSG's I've had I've done nothing but leave them in D while driving, never dropping in neutral or park. Never had a problem.

Edited 24 July, 2019 by logiclee

[ords]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

The DQ200 completely disengages the clutches when stationary and the foot brake is applied with sufficient pressure. You can feel the clutches engage when you lift the brake pedal.

 

The DQ250 is slightly different as the clutches are held closer for immediate creep but as they are lubricated the wear and heat build up is negligible.

 

The DQ200 in traffic is designed to have a very low 1st gear so will hardly ever slip slow traffic. The DQ250 will happily slip in 2nd gear in traffic although this is down to individual model mapping and seems more common on diesel.

 

But after all that in my experience it doesn't matter how you drive. It's all down to luck on the DQ200.

As posted earlier I've had 5. Both petrol and diesel, some used for urban city cars, some for mixed driving and my Mk3 Octavia was a motorway commuter. They also had different drivers but I still had warranty work on 4 of them.

The two Yeti's I leased were the same 1.2TSi's DSG. Same colour, same spec, same build week. One was driven by my retired Dad (A retirement present I got for him) and just used to fetch the shopping and a run out to their holiday home. One was driven by myself on my motorway commute.

Both Yeti's had exactly the same failure mode, clutch slip started when changing into 4th and then started noticing it in 2nd. Both less than two years old and both less than 20k miles.

The failure on our Fabia 1.2TSi DSG was judder pulling away in 1st so a different fault on a different clutch pack. The Fabia was pretty much a city car, had clutch pack replaced.

The Octavia was a motorway commuter. Started noticing slight slip on change into 4th and dealer agreed. Clutch pack was changed and failed completely meaning the mechatronic and clutch pack needed to be replaced. While it was in they replaced the gear lever as the chrome was peeling off. A few weeks later the new gear lever started throwing up "Error Leaving Workshop" faults. So I ended up on gear lever No3.

 

So in my experience your driving style and type of driving makes no difference.

 

The DQ250 DSG's I've had I've done nothing but leave them in D while driving, never dropping in neutral or park. Never had a problem.

I only see 1st gear on pulling away & within what seems like a second it's in 2nd gear. In traffic it stays in D & the s/s does its job.

[Ootohere]

DQ200's are used in 48 applications and there is lots of differences in them over the past decade and in petrol or diesels and from 75ps to 192ps.

Only issue is that VW never actually perfected them even now.

[gkr47]

6 hours ago, Rodge said:

That sounds like a good idea in very slow traffic, as it should save clutch wear.

With a manual in slow traffic I routinely put it in gear and let it trundle along on idle revs with no feet on the pedals. I gather that if you do that with a DSG it will continuously slip the clutch as it pretends to be an old-fashioned auto.

 

I'm not so sure. Mine will move slowly if I release the brake with no signs of clutch slip with revs at approx. 600.

[Rodge]

1 hour ago, gkr47 said:

 

I'm not so sure. Mine will move slowly if I release the brake with no signs of clutch slip with revs at approx. 600.

That's good to hear. It's been stated here in the past that the DSG will slip the clutch to give the creep of an old auto box. It's also previously been said that when stationary with your foot lightly on the brake that it will slightly engage the clutch. More brake pressure would disengage the clutch and enable the stop-start.

[logiclee]

8 hours ago, Rodge said:

That's good to hear. It's been stated here in the past that the DSG will slip the clutch to give the creep of an old auto box.

 

The DQ250 wet clutch DSG will slip as you describe but the DQ200 dry clutch will not.

Edited 25 July, 2019 by logiclee

[Guest]

Good old VW and forums eh.  So far I've read that the DSG DQ200 which is the dry clutch 7 speed used in the less powerfull engine applications is:

 

Brilliant, inherantly faulty, that you have to adapt driving style to use it properly, works just like an ordinary auto, no problem using D in crawling traffic, should use S in crawling traffic, the clutch slips, it doesn't slip, and according to HonestJohn who's been complaining for many years about this dry clutch box, sitting with your foot on the brake whilst the car is in D ( presumably S too ) was VW's defense for claiming premature clutch wear and not paying out or contribuing to repair costs. As confusion goes, the DQ200 rivals servicing interval, when to change the cambelt and which oil should I use for top spot.

 

What is beyond doubt is the DQ200 is one of the most unreliable auto boxes available.   I've read that there haven't been any major instances reported when it's used in combination with the 1.0 3 cyl engine, but for 1.4tsi, 1.6tdi and 1.8tsi  it's best avoided. Don't recall reading about any 1.5tsi instances with the DSG but then again, folk are probably too busy kangarooing to notice.   

Edited 25 July, 2019 by Guest

[Ootohere]

Skoda have discontinued the DQ200 DSG's in Mk3 Fabia.  So all that there are now are 95ps Manuals.

 

Give it some time and you will hear of issues with 1.0TSI DSG's.   Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Nothing surer in life than VW / Skoda will build some that are sh!t.

You just have to wait until you know if you did well in the lottery.

You never know how things are after 3 years until 3 years has passed.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/439395-the-story-of-the-famous-dq200-clutch-slip/page/13/#comments

 

[logiclee]

38 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

 I've read that there haven't been any major instances reported when it's used in combination with the 1.0 3 cyl engine, but for 1.4tsi, 1.6tdi and 1.8tsi  it's best avoided. Don't recall reading about any 1.5tsi instances with the DSG but then again, folk are probably too busy kangarooing to notice.   

 

The larger engines you quote are all at the DQ200's 250NM torque limit. In fact it's widely reported that the 1.6TDi and 1.8TSi were capped at 250NM due to gearbox restrictions.

 

But there's time yet for the 1.0.  I've had three 1.2TSi DSG's at 175NM and they all suffered clutch issues.

 

Our 1,2TSi Octavia is a manual and although our DQ250 VW's have all been faultless when I sold the Mk3 1.6TDi DQ200 DSG  I actively looked for vehicles with a torque converter auto. The Mk3 Octy just broke my DSG spirit, the final straw after owning 8 DSG's.

 

Lee

[shyVRS245]

7 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

The larger engines you quote are all at the DQ200's 250NM torque limit. In fact it's widely reported that the 1.6TDi and 1.8TSi were capped at 250NM due to gearbox restrictions.

 

But there's time yet for the 1.0.  I've had three 1.2TSi DSG's at 175NM and they all suffered clutch issues.

 

Our 1,2TSi Octavia is a manual and although our DQ250 VW's have all been faultless when I sold the Mk3 1.6TDi DQ200 DSG  I actively looked for vehicles with a torque converter auto. The Mk3 Octy just broke my DSG spirit, the final straw after owning 8 DSG's.

 

Lee

My manual Vrs245 has to cope with 517nm (380lb/ft) of torque and after nearly 24,000 miles in almost 24 months there is no clutch slip whatsoever. Not sure how a DSG box with this amount of power and torque would cope.

[logiclee]

11 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

My manual Vrs245 has to cope with 517nm (380lb/ft) of torque and after nearly 24,000 miles in almost 24 months there is no clutch slip whatsoever. Not sure how a DSG box with this amount of power and torque would cope.

 

My current car has 500NM but the gearbox is rated at 700NM so I'm quite comfortable with that.  

 

I've heard the DQ250 withstanding remaps well but I suppose it's all down to the abuse it gets.

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, logiclee said:

 

My current car has 500NM but the gearbox is rated at 700NM so I'm quite comfortable with that.  

 

I've heard the DQ250 withstanding remaps well but I suppose it's all down to the abuse it gets.

Is that the 296bhp diesel in the XF?

[Ootohere]

2015/16 VW Polo GTI 1.8TSI 192 ps were 320 Nm with a manual box and with a DSG were 250Nm.  Supposedly the DSG was heavier than the manual.

As with all VW kidolgy they were supposedly equally speed wise, but the DSG was / is actually quicker.

Also problem free.

(funnily the 1.4TSI 180ps 250Nm DSG Twincharger Polo is as quick if not quicker, and if journalists had bothered to look also had the battery in the boot.)

 

 

 

 

 

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

Is that the 296bhp diesel in the XF?

 

For the diesels (Slight differences depending on year but generally).

300PS has 700NM,  (3.0)

275PS has 600NM, (3.0)

240PS has 500NM, (3.0)

190/200PS has 450NM, (2.2)

180PS has 430NM , (2.0)

163PS has 400NM, (2.0/2.2)

 

2.2 & 3.0 use the ZF8HP70 gearbox rated at 700NM. The 2.0's use the ZF8HP45 rated at 500NM.

 

The new 2.0's are also available with a manual gearbox in case you are a bit weird or want to buy a depreciation disaster as manuals in this sector don't sell well.

 

Lee

Edited 25 July, 2019 by logiclee

[shyVRS245]

14 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

For the diesels (Slight differences depending on year but generally).

300PS has 700NM,  (3.0)

275PS has 600NM, (3.0)

240PS has 500NM, (3.0)

190/200PS has 450NM, (2.2)

180PS has 430NM , (2.0)

163PS has 400NM, (2.0/2.2)

 

2.2 & 3.0 use the ZF8HP70 gearbox rated at 700NM. The 2.0's use the ZF8HP45 rated at 500NM.

 

The new 2.0's are also available with a manual gearbox in case you are a bit weird or want to buy a depreciation disaster as manuals in this sector don't sell well.

 

Lee

One of my neighbours has swapped his fairly new Mercedes GLC for a 19 plate Jaguar F -Pace 300 Sport with the 2.0 litre turbo petrol engine. Looks like off white very light meteor grey shade.