So we are 6 months into ownership on our 64 plate Octavia Estate 1.4 TSI SE.
Its a lovely car and we are well pleased with it.  Just recently I noticed a very slight and occasional judder when the car is idling.  It was intermittent and irregular (ie. it happened maybe every few seconds sometimes in rapid succession but not at a regular period (say every 5 or 10 seconds say).

I have since noticed that the problem is not present when I first turn on the car (at which point the engine is still as smooth as silk) and doesn't begin to happen until its been running/driving for about 5 or 10 minutes.

Its hard to describe the judder.  It feels a little like a tiny misfire and you feel it through the seat of the car so it does create a reasonable vibration (though not a really discernible difference in noise).

Its not really a major problem to fair but I'm worried it may be symptomatic of something else and it does if anything seem to have got a little worse over the course of the month or so I've been aware of it.

One thing I've noticed is that if I am on a long run and stop at lights say with the clutch down and the engine idling it can be very noticeable.  If I then put the car in neutral so the auto cut out kicks in  and then depress the clutch so the engine fires up again its often a bit smoother (though the judder is still present).  Not sure if this tells us anything.

Attached is some video shot after the car had been on a drive of about 30 mins.  you can see and hear the effect quite well at the 1 second mark and also at 17s and 19s second mark.

Any thoughts or theories gratefully received.

The car still has another 5 months of Skoda approved used warranty so hopefully if its anything major it will be covered (and better to find out now).  However I do wonder if its just something silly like a spark plug which is faulty when it warms up a bit or if maybe putting some injector cleaner through the system might help (haven't tried that yet).

Or if the tick over just needs adjustment.

Our nearest dealer has sounded sympathetic on the phone but it will still be an upfront chart of at least £110 for diagnosing the fault  so I'm keen to try and do as much detective work as I can before then!

Hey,

 

Did you ever get to the bottom of this? I've got a very similar problem on my VRS.

@MidfieldGeneral Welcome.

 

Spark Plugs would be a concideration more than using Additives / Cleaners.

Handy if you said how many miles done, when last serviced with new Spark Plugs, Air Filter, Fuel Filter etc.

Full Main Dealer Serviced might mean nothing much done or replaced.

@Roottootemoot Sorry to be a pain but could you take a gander at my thread about this subject?

 

 

Cheers bud.

@the_slug

Sorry i have very little experience of these engines, but have driven them but what i can say is they drove perfectly and i always question something that seemingly 'They all do that' 

or 'It is a characteristic',  that seems like a load of BS if Engineers designed something to feel faulty.

 

@Roottootemoot Yeah agreed, but the number of threads about this going back years, and the fact no single fix has been found really doesn't fill you with confidence. 😞

I've got it booked in at the dealer to take a look but I'm 99% sure they're just going to say "Yeah we can see the misire, but can't find the fault"

 

You know it's bad when people who specialise in these engines have dedicated videos about it and even they can't find the fault:

 

My policy is basics with any TSI with unresolved faults.

Fit,

New correct spark plugs with the correct gap.

New Air Filter,

New Fuel Filter,

New Oil not Long Life short engine life VW Recommended crap. just VW502 00 spec.

99 Ron minimum Tesco Momentum 99 Super Unleaded in the tank,  get it up to Operating temp then thrash it, and if it is still not running right go to someone with all the gear and more than an idea to find the fault.

Not anyone at a VW Group Main Dealership.  Maybe an Ex Main Dealership tech working in an Independent though.

Thanks all for the feedback on this.  As of today I have it booked in with the main dealer who sold it to us in February.  they have kindly agreed to take a look at it with no diagnostic charge and see if they can work out what the fault is.

We bought the car with 32,000 miles iN Feb and it now has 39,000 miles.  it had a minor service last month (oil change and air filter).

At that time the main dealer who carried out that service could not see the fault (as mentioned we only see it happening when the car has been running for a few minutes and has got up to temperature.

Will be sure to post up what the issue is if we get to the bottom of it!

 

@MidfieldGeneralKeep us in the loop matey, it will be interesting to compare what our two dealers say. As this does seem to be the same problem. And has been widely reported for a number of years now -

 

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17553
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22341
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7151935-15-GTI-rough-idle
https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/471816-octavia-14-tsi-bit-lumpy-on-tick-over-when-warm/?tab=comments#comment-5299897
https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/371411-strange-idle-and-engine-shake-with-my-skoda-octavia-vrs-20-tfsi/
https://forums.seatcupra.net/index.php?threads/cupra-290-slight-misfire-on-idle.439049/
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5852677-Cyl-1-misfire-at-idle-only

Edited 21 September, 20196 yr by the_slug

The symptoms you describe sound like a coil pack and sparkplug  starting to break down, which any decent diagnostics equipment should pickup (not a cheapy as they are useless) 

 

The spark plugs should give a life span of 60k miles but can wear out before this (yes sparkplugs do wear or breakdown as us tech's call it)

 

The Coil packs don't have a service life, some can last the life time of the vehicle, some can last as little a 1000 miles, it's the small amount of electronics in them the breakdown due to heat and vibration.

 

I would replace all these first as a set (if one has begun breaking, the others tend to follow soon after), if the problem disappears then job done.

3 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

The symptoms you describe sound like a coil pack and sparkplug  starting to break down, which any decent diagnostics equipment should pickup (not a cheapy as they are useless) 

 

The spark plugs should give a life span of 60k miles but can wear out before this (yes sparkplugs do wear or breakdown as us tech's call it)

 

The Coil packs don't have a service life, some can last the life time of the vehicle, some can last as little a 1000 miles, it's the small amount of electronics in them the breakdown due to heat and vibration.

 

I would replace all these first as a set (if one has begun breaking, the others tend to follow soon after), if the problem disappears then job done.

 

Already been done in my case. You can read my thread about it here:

This appears to be a common problem with these engines.

 

The vrs engine and 1.4 ea211 are very different beasts. The bigger engine has been known to suffer inlet manifold flap issues (not sure re mkiiii). On any of them make sure compressions have been checked before chucking money at other problems just in case it's valve carbonning that some direct injection engines can be prone to.

 

As mentioned above check the usual basics

 

Edited 21 September, 20196 yr by bigjohn

31 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

The vrs engine and 1.4 ea211 are very different beasts. The bigger engine has been known to suffer inlet manifold flap issues (not sure re mkiiii). On any of them make sure compressions have been checked before chucking money at other problems just in case it's valve carbonning that some direct injection engines can be prone to.

 

As mentioned above check the usual basics

 

Hi Bigjohn,
With my 1.4TSi I only get the problem when the car warms up (its smooth as silk when you first spark it up).  Do you think this would be consistent with valve carbonning?

Many thanks!

Rob

My 16 plate 1.4 tsi, has covered 85k, and the only problem was an idle sensor, stoping the raves from falling after first start, its on the bottom coolant hose next to the rad , 2 min job to change.

 

20 hours ago, MidfieldGeneral said:

Thanks all for the feedback on this.  As of today I have it booked in with the main dealer who sold it to us in February.  they have kindly agreed to take a look at it with no diagnostic charge and see if they can work out what the fault is.

We bought the car with 32,000 miles iN Feb and it now has 39,000 miles.  it had a minor service last month (oil change and air filter).

At that time the main dealer who carried out that service could not see the fault (as mentioned we only see it happening when the car has been running for a few minutes and has got up to temperature.

Will be sure to post up what the issue is if we get to the bottom of it!

 

It’s probably still got its original spark plugs as the interval for changing them is 60000km (37282 miles).

My 1.4 tsi developed a very very slight hesitation when cold a couple of months before its first major service, at 39,000 miles, when the plugs and original air filter were replaced.

It was perfect again after the service.

I would say the minor service yours had at 39000 should have been a major service.

Edited 22 September, 20196 yr by classic

11 hours ago, classic said:

It’s probably still got its original spark plugs as the interval for changing them is 60000km (37282 miles).

My 1.4 tsi developed a very very slight hesitation when cold a couple of months before its first major service, at 39,000 miles, when the plugs and original air filter were replaced.

It was perfect again after the service.

I would say the minor service yours had at 39000 should have been a major service.

 

11 hours ago, classic said:

It’s probably still got its original spark plugs as the interval for changing them is 60000km (37282 miles).

My 1.4 tsi developed a very very slight hesitation when cold a couple of months before its first major service, at 39,000 miles, when the plugs and original air filter were replaced.

It was perfect again after the service.

I would say the minor service yours had at 39000 should have been a major service.

 

Change mine at 60K , and they where still almost as good as new

 

On 21/09/2019 at 20:42, MidfieldGeneral said:

Hi Bigjohn,
With my 1.4TSi I only get the problem when the car warms up (its smooth as silk when you first spark it up).  Do you think this would be consistent with valve carbonning?

Many thanks!

Rob

 

 

 

Years ago when I had a car with burnt valves on one cylinder  (Capri 2.0) the 3 cylinder misfire showed up when the car was off choke and warmed up and only at low revs. A compression test showed this up. However this could also be other things such as plugs, coil pack, injector etc.... - To prove/disprove it's worth having a compression test - and check /change the plugs anyway whilst they are out.

 

Saying that - my old breed EA111 1.4tsi is still sweet as a nut at 80k miles. I was worried I'd picked up a vibration after returning from France yesterday - was actually caused by the ferry I was waiting for!

 

Edited 23 September, 20196 yr by bigjohn

Hello Guys,

I have exacly same issue. Engine is shaking on idle when wormed up.

Exacly as described in the topic. The wormer then more. 

Spark plugs is not an issue here. Been replaced. Intake was cleared, there was some carbon but not much. Not an issue, still same. 

Firmware on rhe ECM is up to date. Ignition coils not an issue. 

I found that this problem was reported by previous user on firt service, so this problem starts from the beginning. No errors stored on ECM. 

Maybe SB have some findings on this annoying issue. 

On 21/09/2019 at 20:42, MidfieldGeneral said:

Hi Bigjohn,
With my 1.4TSi I only get the problem when the car warms up (its smooth as silk when you first spark it up).  Do you think this would be consistent with valve carbonning?

Many thanks!

Rob

I imagine the engine switches from the richer mixture on starting to a leaner one once the engine warms up. Various sensors will be involved in the process.

For sure but it should not act that way. ECU has a lot of sensors and actuators to hold engine as silk. Slightly increase idle by pressing pedal also works but i cannot assume it as solution. When acc pedal is pressed even for 800rpm there's no idle anymore. Antway can anybody tell if 1.4 tsi allow to increase idle as a parameter like 1.6 tdi does?

That looks like a misfire to me.  You can hear the misfire, the ticking and whole engine shifting around is a giveaway.  Caused probably by a failing coilpack when hot.  Look at the misfire counters on ODBC / VCDS / ODBEleven will give the game away.  Suggest replacing plugs and coilpacks at the same time.

Hi, couners for misfires doesnt reflect this issue. They almost doesnt count any. Or engine can't recognize misfire if appears idneed. Anyway direct misfire is more sensitive in appearence when you're in car. This is rather rough idle engine wiggling. But I think this is not an issue of missfire. Plugs and coils replaced w/o effect. 

When lumpy making pedal to the metal for a moment makes some stabilization for a moment and again lumpy. But this is risky on the trafic lights because car next to you thinks that you want to make a race 🙂

 

I found this is not for all 1.4 tsi but a lot, a LOT of them has this issue reported from the very first miles. I suspect this can be caused by cam shaft timing? This engine has two VVTs and If I see correctly, no sensors to controll its possition, but this is just my suspicion. Also I can see that this engine is very lazy to controll ignition angle when idle. I do know that the other brands controlling this when idle. This engine go for arround 0 (I assume as a correction from base value as ignition on top dead point makes no sens) when idling. 

 

Anyway almost everyone is replacing spark plugs, ignition coils, cleaning carbon buildup from the intake, as I did, and nobody have solved this issue by those efforts, me either. Going back to the dealer makes no sense, where authorized service looks like a kindergarten, and the's a problem with changing tire, what to say about the diagnosis whene engine doesnt spit any code. I don't want to offend anyone, but this is my impression of several visits there.

 

And no, 

VCDS doesnt allow for idle adjustment for 1.4TSI, It's possible for TDI for some range but not TSI

Edited 18 December, 20232 yr by deodekabokat

What degree is the timing in or out of phase by (you can check this using VCDS or ODBeleven)?  If you idle the engine, does the VVT cam change at all?  Issues with VVT are usually oil related (either loss of oil pressure, variable oil pressure or wrong grade of oil). 

I just got similar conclusion. It seem that this particular engine is very sensitive for proper timing and doesn't forgive any misalignment. Sure I have VCDS and CarScanner pro so I can check. But I'm not sure if this engine has any oil pressure sensor. All I can see on the sensors list is just oil pressure switch which will not give nothing here as its role is just to say "I'm running on dry". The other hand on the measuring blocks Indeed I saw a values of timing valve. I jumped into the details of sensors and actuators of this engine and yeah at the end of camshafts there's two sensors, hall efect for shaft possition. 

I'll check values for cams alignment I think I saw set and read value. I'll try to correlate this with shudders.

 

Mine engine behaves very similar to this one from the link below, mine 4cyl instead of 3 and mine slightly smoother and not all the time. But the timing belt is original on mine, never replaced. If this is an Issue then wroung setup on the factory or variable pulleys or valves have enough or faulty. Anyway sensors for real cams possitions should have catch this.

So for now:

1) Check on the blocks what's the corelation between sensor shudderring vs cams possitions. 

2) Buy camshaft blockades and redo timing. They're reasonably cheap. 

 

The 

Edited 28 December, 20232 yr by deodekabokat