... The bodywork would need to look like paint, though! (Or carbon fibre). Looking like that will be quite abhorrent to all but the "weirdo" guy in the street. (Where can I get one)?

 

This is almost what I was thinking of... (First viewing for me). The biggest drawback is the limit of 30KM without backup charge. I guess though, eventually, it will go further and further, until it can self-support and charge for near continual driving!

 

They say it was croup-funded technology... Imagine if all the big car manufacturers invested all they now invest in just the solar panel-tech... They will probably crack it within a decade!

22 minutes ago, mrgf said:

 until it can self-support and charge for near continual driving!

At night time? It would need a battery pack as large as a non-solar EV to achieve that.

If corporations like Amazon, Dilveroo, Uber, Tesla's owners want their vehicles to be Solar Panel covered then they can have them.

Light Commercial Urban / City vehicles seem perfect for that, and if they can have wireless charging at docking stations / ranks where there is storage batteries that technology exists.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

18 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

At night time? It would need a battery pack as large as a non-solar EV to achieve that.

...Eventually! Remember battery drills? 20 years ago, they were crap. Now, almost everyone in the building trade uses them as they have lighter batteries, that charge quick and last a lot longer!

21 minutes ago, mrgf said:

...Eventually! Remember battery drills? 20 years ago, they were crap. Now, almost everyone in the building trade uses them as they have lighter batteries, that charge quick and last a lot longer!

Eventually isn't much help when the pressure to switch to EVs is on NOW.

The UK Government is spinning the 'Go electric', Councils are talking big while doing little other than trying to get grants and they are too late now for them from the EU.

 

Elephant in the room. 

Supply and demand.   There is the demand in the UK now and growing and the Manufacturers and UK Importers can not meet the demand anytime soon.

 

So it is a case of drip drip on the EV's getting first registered in the UK, and being leased on the 'drip' / 'Tick',  on the never never.

There should be in the next years theses Ex Lease cars from those out with 'renters' now appearing on the market, and the Used Market is strong on the better EV's.

The 2020 / 2021 cars that do go on the road might appear in a few years as used cars but what there is up to now and going to people this year is old tech.

 

VW Group really are the ones talking big and worst of all for meeting the demand by being able to supply. 

Currently with the Audi's, then the Seat & Skoda cheapest EV's.

It will be interesting to see if the UK Chancellor or some minion gives a clue pre the 11th March Budget what will happen on Grants / Rebates / Tax Breaks / Relief / Bribes, 

'Carrot not Stick.' To meet 'Climate change obligations'. 

http://whatcar.com/news/buyers-urged-to-take-advantage-of-electric-car-grants/n20713

 

4 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

It will be interesting to see if the UK Chancellor or some minion gives a clue pre the 11th March Budget what will happen on Grants / Rebates / Tax Breaks / Relief / Bribes, 

'Carrot not Stick.' To meet 'Climate change obligations'. 

http://whatcar.com/news/buyers-urged-to-take-advantage-of-electric-car-grants/n20713

 

Surely a car tax based on simple environmental properties would be the best way. IE use more fuel, pay more tax.

Surely it would be.   

What are you going to do, use paper money to make face masks?

The Tax and Duty is paid now on fuel in the UK and it is not achieving the Carbon Reduction the UK signed up to and the targets it is failing to meet.

There was that kind of car tax for years that bigger engines cost more to tax, and it makes no difference, as the Low Emission Zones do not when Goods vehicles need to travel, and those that can afford to pay to drive into them or Congestion Charge areas just do that, pay and go,

and the environment is polluted and there was and is Carbon Trading and fuel for air travel is not highly taxed.

 

Some muppet let the cars that got low emissions test results get free or £20, £30 tax and they drank as much fuel and were not real world low emissions.

They trundle about in towns doing low miles yet polluting just the same and not costing the user that much.

That got knocked on the head.

So did the Grants in the UK for the kiddy on Green Plug in Hybrids.

 

14 hours ago, abaxas said:

Surely a car tax based on simple environmental properties would be the best way. IE use more fuel, pay more tax.

Totally agree. 

 

How about something that is fair to all and also pushes for efficiency: 

Battery production, as we know, is most polluting part of lifetime EV pollution. So this should be reflected on tax. BUT we don't want old EV's get scrapped due to high tax. The longer it is in service, the better for the environment. 

By placing restriction on battery size, this pushes the manufacturers to come out with more efficient vehicles to get maximum advertised range for a set battery size. Of course they can cheat the test cycle, but unlike dieselgate, any cheating will simply mean lost faith in that single manufacturer's claims. SImply because customers will find they can't get the claimed real world range. 

 

- £20 for sub 40 kWh EV, good for over 150 real world miles (eg Ioniq 40kWh), enough to cover vast majority commute and occational long trip. 

- £40 for 40-70 kWh EV, good for 250 real world miles (eg Model 3), good for 3-4 hours of motorway driving, covers vast majority of people 

- £100 for 71-100 kWh EV, battery size is getting excessive 

- £150 for over 100 kWh EV 

(- 20% from previous year on every tax year. Eg. £100 tax becomes £26 on 8th year) 

- +£20 if your car has fuel cell (placing most fuel cell at same level as 40-70 kWh EV, but with more range) 

- +£100 if your car has range extended fossil fuel engine 

- £200 for parallel hybrid 

- £250 for petrol 

- £280 for diesel 

 

Fossil fuel tax get increased. 

Hydrogen need to be taxed according to production method. 

Electric charging will also need to be taxed, the faster you want to charge, the more tax you pay. For example: 

- 600p per kWh at 350 kW

- 200p per kWh at 150 kW 

- 50p per kWh at 50 kW

- 5p per kWh at 7kW and current home chargers 

- tax free for Vehicle-2-grid connectors that is actively helping the grid. 

 

So it'll still be possible for almost tax free over 200 miles daily commute: £20 annual tax, V2G at home/flat/workplace car park. Ought to cover vast majority of the population while actually helping the grid during peak times. 

13 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Battery production, as we know, is most polluting part of lifetime EV pollution. So this should be reflected on tax.

Which is why we shouldn't be subsidising Scalextric cars!!

On 10/01/2020 at 21:22, KenONeill said:

Which is why we shouldn't be subsidising Scalextric cars!!

If you can get scalextric tracks working on the road, then we should definitely subsidising them over battery electric  

 

 

I know, you are taking the mick at electric cars. Would you rather breath in fossil fuel engine exhaust, have noisy urban environment, and pollute the planet with inefficiency; or would you rather have cheap motoring with very efficient, smooth and almost silent drivetrain? 

 

Unfortunately the majority of public are slow to adopt, almost like a lazy donkey. They need a small push, with both carrot and stick. 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

would you rather have cheap motoring with very efficient, smooth and almost silent drivetrain? 

And still pollute the atmosphere from the electricity generating source - because although on SOME days the UK generates more then 50% of it's electricity from renewables it's not EVERY day and it's not 100%.

51 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

And still pollute the atmosphere from the electricity generating source - because although on SOME days the UK generates more then 50% of it's electricity from renewables it's not EVERY day and it's not 100%.

Also you have to factor in the CO2 'cost' of manufacture.  Most of the comparisons are in car 'class' but do not compare cheaper cars.

It is arguable that a small petrol 'cheap' car has a lifetime CO2 footprint lower than almost all electric cars and definitly the higher end ones.  So if you are sitting at the lights in your fabia 1.0tsi with Mr Tesla, the small efficient cheap car is probably going to be the greener option overall but not in the locality of where you are.

It's a complex issue with sadly not clear answer.

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

And still pollute the atmosphere from the electricity generating source - because although on SOME days the UK generates more then 50% of it's electricity from renewables it's not EVERY day and it's not 100%.

Remember, EV motors are far more efficient at using the same unit of energy than ICE. Power plants will also be more efficient at extracting energy from fossil fuel. Finally, there's value to not having pollution at population centre. 

 

Also, over the lifetime of all EV's, their usage will become cleaner as the grid get cleaner. The generation source are heavily regulated, closely managed and regularly upgraded. Same cannot be said for ICE on the road, which only get checked once and no requirement to have old cars meet latest emission standards. 

 

21 minutes ago, abaxas said:

Also you have to factor in the CO2 'cost' of manufacture.  Most of the comparisons are in car 'class' but do not compare cheaper cars.

It is arguable that a small petrol 'cheap' car has a lifetime CO2 footprint lower than almost all electric cars and definitly the higher end ones.  So if you are sitting at the lights in your fabia 1.0tsi with Mr Tesla, the small efficient cheap car is probably going to be the greener option overall but not in the locality of where you are.

It's a complex issue with sadly not clear answer.

Without Tesla providing the choice of cleaner vehicle in its class. Is this Mr Tesla more likely to buy a Merc E class or a Fabia? 

 

So perhaps your point is less to do with EV's, more to do with people's buying preference? In that case, I think boycotting SUV should be your number one priority. 

19 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Without Tesla providing the choice of cleaner vehicle in its class. Is this Mr Tesla more likely to buy a Merc E class or a Fabia? 

 

 

My point is simpler. Mr Tesla thinks he is being green when relative to the fabia he probably isnt.

So Mr Tesla will look down on Mr Fabia, when infact from a life cycle viewpoint, Mr Fabia is the greener of the two.

Basically you've hit on the exact problem with modern motoring,  people buy for ego and wants not simply need.

And right now SKODA can not sell you a new small car with a petrol or diesel automatic. CItigo no more unless electric and Fabia unless A 95 PS manual. So you have to go up a class in size.    Or go to sister brands or competitors.  

 

Might be a useful and informative day .

 

I wonder what say Grant Shapps MP and Transport Secretary is going to have on the Grants for Plug in Vehicles when the current scheme ends.

He mouthed off about wanting no such grants.  Kind of not being in line with what the Environments Secretary of State needs in the UK as more need to be driving Green Cars and Vans and Busses.  Maybe he just wants less cars and just the likes of him with a Tesla that gets no Grant Aid.

 

Dundee's Seagate is still in the list of Scotland's most polluted streets.   But then that is where the bus station is and Dundee does have very polluting buses and no Electric ones.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51163098

 

 

A new Green Bus low emissions bus (while not on fire) in Glasgow was on fire yesterday, but it appears someone set it on fire.

I assume it was not one of the New Electric Busses as there would be difficulty if they have to be  treated  like a Tesla in the USA and dunked it in a skip of water....

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-51166671

 

 

 

 

Years of EV vids now & so little actual help and yet he covers so much and explains it so well in one video.

But then he never got where he is by being stupid or being in politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Metcalfe

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 January, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

What that shows more than anything else is that Tesla 'get it' and 'legacy' car makers do not. The big line of Tesla chargers contrasted with the broken Ecotricity ****e. Teslas do in excess of 250 miles per charge. Tesla take drag seriously to improve 'highway range'.  Tesla is still the EV to beat IMO.

 

If Tesla can increase the number of supercharger locations in the UK it will make a huge difference but all their European spec. cars can now use CCS also, so not essential.

 

I'm sounding like a fan-boy, but it seems to be right IMO. 

19 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

What that shows more than anything else is that Tesla 'get it' and 'legacy' car makers do not. The big line of Tesla chargers contrasted with the broken Ecotricity ****e. Teslas do in excess of 250 miles per charge. Tesla take drag seriously to improve 'highway range'.  Tesla is still the EV to beat IMO.

 

If Tesla can increase the number of supercharger locations in the UK it will make a huge difference but all their European spec. cars can now use CCS also, so not essential.

 

I'm sounding like a fan-boy, but it seems to be right IMO. 

It is a bad example. There are vastly more none tesla chargers than super chargers.

The bigger issue is inter compatibility. As in anyone with cash or card can fill up their fossil fuel car. Electric cars require either vendor lock in (tesla) or a myriad of other apps.

We need standardization if electric cars are going to become anything other than a middle class novelty.

 

They are a 'Working Class reality' now for a few hundred thousands in the UK.

Delivery drivers / Taxi drivers, Private Hire / Care takers / Technicians & trades people / Local Authority staff,  Social & Care workers, NHS / Salespeople etc all as work vehicles,

Then Retired, Disabled, unemployed and employed anyones.

 

The difference can be Work Place charging facilities and home charging and then the PITA of out of service Public Charging and not just the Swipe a card and pay up to £30 or have it charged to your Current Account or Credit Card.