23 minutes ago, abaxas said:

We'd need to do a more accurate cost analysis to see if you were actually gaining any value from the electric car or were simply throwing money away relative to fossil fuel options.  If you look at many electric cars the cost analysis is often that the diesel versions with ~100,000 miles of free diesel and maintainance cost about the same as the electric versions.

IE currently there is very little cost advantage to electric cars.

I beg to differ. This is my cost analysis: 

 

Last updated:		29/12/2019	30/12/2019
Years of ownership:	years	2.59	2.20
Car purchase price		£8,800.00	£8,882.61
Estimated car value		£4,841.33	£5,729.81
Depreciation Cost	Per year	£1,530.63	£1,433.09	£2,963.72
	Per month	£127.55	£119.42	£246.98
Road tax	Per year	£30.00	£0.00	£30.00
Service/Fix/Tyre/etc	Total:	£1,310.49	£376.45	£1,686.94
	Per year:	£506.70	£171.11	£677.82
MPG or mi/KWh	Overall:	53.59	4.04
Litres or KWh	Recorded:	1,782	5,301
Miles	Recorded:	21,002	21,858	42,860
	Per year:	8,120	9,935	18,056
Fuel Cost	Recorded:	£2,174.07	£530.12	£2,704.19
	Per year:	£840.61	£240.96	£1,081.57
	Per mile	£0.1035	£0.0243	£0.0631
Average cost	Per year	£2,907.94	£1,845.17	£4,753.11
(ex Insurance)	Per month	£242.33	£153.76	£396.09
	Per mile	£0.358	£0.186	£0.263

 

Granted, the Skoda (left) had timing belt, DSG oil and servicing done, whereas Leaf (right) only had tyres and DIY servicing. But I think it's still a representitive example of owning 2 very similar family vehicles. One is driven less miles but costing 1.5x more to own. 

 

22 minutes ago, BigJase88 said:

i do not believe electric is the way forward. It is not clean energy. Where does it come from? A big stinking nuclear power station.

 

bonkers

Nuclear power stations are actually very clean.

You could have made a valid point if you had said CCGT (natural gas).  

9 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

the Skoda (left) had timing belt, DSG oil and servicing done, whereas Leaf (right) only had tyres and DIY servicing. But I think it's still a representitive example of owning 2 very similar family vehicles.

Well, if you think a Leaf is in some way comparable with an Octavia, that seems like grounds for ignoring you (I don't have a Leaf but my neighbour did and chopped it in for a Vauxhall that could get to Inverness on one fill (there and back twice on one fill actually).

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

Nuclear power stations are actually very clean.

 

You think? I worked at a nuclear power station for 10 years, they have plans that date until the year 2150 (so far) for the cleanup of the site, the site generated power from 1964-2005. Sounds nice and clean

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Well, if you think a Leaf is in some way comparable with an Octavia, that seems like grounds for ignoring you (I don't have a Leaf but my neighbour did and chopped it in for a Vauxhall that could get to Inverness on one fill (there and back twice on one fill actually).

Let's see the official classification and body style: 

Leaf:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

Class	Compact car / Small family car (C)
Body style	5-door hatchback
Layout	Front-motor, front-wheel-drive

Octavia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Octavia

Class	Small family car (C)
Body style	5-door liftback sedan[1] 5-door estate

Both small family car. Both 5 door hatchback. Therefore, I don't see any problem with my previous statement, it is technically correct.  

 

In terms of daily usge, the Nissan Leaf is a far more convenient and enjoyable car. 

Only 2 things make Octavia worth having: the boot size and ability to drive 450 miles on one tank. But neither of which I need during my daily use. 

 

Indeed, we use the Leaf ~350 days, the only time we don't drive our Leaf is when we are not at home. Whereas the Skoda only gets used about 1/4 of the time. 

 

26 minutes ago, BigJase88 said:

You think? I worked at a nuclear power station for 10 years, they have plans that date until the year 2150 (so far) for the cleanup of the site, the site generated power from 1964-2005. Sounds nice and clean

It all depends on the metric.

No, it's not clean in terms of left-over radioactive materials.

But it is very clean in terms of carbon emissions. 

 

End of the day, continued burning hydrocarbon from beneath the ground is not sustainable, it needs to stop NOW.

In the medium term, nuclear energy is a sustainable stop-gap. It's the best option until we figure out how to store masses amount of energy from renewables. 

9 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Both small family car. Both 5 door hatchback. Therefore, I don't see any problem with my previous statement, it is technically correct

Well, if you happen to be USian, since that's the only way an Octavia 3 classifies as a "small car".

22 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

You have over a decade or even 2 until the planned end of the sale of Petrol's and Diesels starts.

But even then the sale of hybrids will be allowed, not just EVs - the Government(s) have not announced date(s) when the sale of hybrids will be banned (and even after that date many will remain in daily use).

Edited 21 January, 20206 yr by PetrolDave

14 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

It all depends on the metric.

No, it's not clean in terms of left-over radioactive materials.

But it is very clean in terms of carbon emissions. 

On the bright side, it does offer an actual use for a Leaf; holding a year's high level radioactives...

27 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Let's see the official classification and body style: 

Leaf:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

Class	Compact car / Small family car (C)
Body style	5-door hatchback
Layout	Front-motor, front-wheel-drive

Octavia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Octavia

Class	Small family car (C)
Body style	5-door liftback sedan[1] 5-door estate

Both small family car. Both 5 door hatchback. Therefore, I don't see any problem with my previous statement, it is technically correct.  

 

In terms of daily usge, the Nissan Leaf is a far more convenient and enjoyable car. 

Only 2 things make Octavia worth having: the boot size and ability to drive 450 miles on one tank. But neither of which I need during my daily use. 

 

Indeed, we use the Leaf ~350 days, the only time we don't drive our Leaf is when we are not at home. Whereas the Skoda only gets used about 1/4 of the time. 

 

It all depends on the metric.

No, it's not clean in terms of left-over radioactive materials.

But it is very clean in terms of carbon emissions. 

 

End of the day, continued burning hydrocarbon from beneath the ground is not sustainable, it needs to stop NOW.

In the medium term, nuclear energy is a sustainable stop-gap. It's the best option until we figure out how to store masses amount of energy from renewables. 

For me until they can recharge themselves it is a non viable option for me.

 

a self charging hybrid right now is the best option. Full electric hows that going to work for haulage, electric lorry with a range of 50 miles. That’s going to be good

50 minutes ago, BigJase88 said:

Full electric hows that going to work for haulage, electric lorry with a range of 50 miles. That’s going to be good

More fag packet maths.

Ev car with ~50-60kwh battery = range ~200miles
Big HGV ~8 mpg.
Similar to EV car 50mpg.

To to have a 200 mile range you'd need 50/8*60= 375kwh battery.

That in itself isn't the problem. How the 'f' are you going to charge that bassa.

@abaxas  lol.  I can be £100 a week getting 45 mpg with a TDI.  What is your weekly mileage and what is it you drive?     HGV,s are not going electric anytime soon, but plenty light commercials are, there are local authorities with fleets of them.   PS,  Car on charge and heading south later and you will be contributing to that free charging , my fuel tax and duty paid over the years contributed to others getting low road tax.  PPS Shogun gets 30 mpg towing and 35 mpg solo. 

Edited 21 January, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

Even my work van some days i can do 300 miles, if you think im sitting at a service station for an hour a day waiting on the van to charge then you have another thing coming.....

That's not difficult to work out.  It's not the right vehicle for you.  Same with a EV charging point maintenance person, EV would not make sense.   But if you were direct Labour maintenance in a Scottish city or town 90 miles or even 30 miles might do you fine.  None of it is rocket science. 

14 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

That's not difficult to work out.  It's not the right vehicle for you.  Same with a EV charging point maintenance person, EV would not make sense.   But if you were direct Labour maintenance in a Scottish city or town 90 miles or even 30 miles might do you fine.  None of it is rocket science. 

It’s not 😱

 

🚗➕⚡= 🚀🧬⚗️?

Edited 21 January, 20206 yr by BigJase88

@BigJase88 the thing is that it is even easier to get caught a bit over the speed limit in a EV than in a high top speed / quick car as you easily get up to the limit without noise or sense of speed.  Us that have had tickets and bans need to take special care.   Heading passed your way later, I hope the cloak of invisibility is functioning.  

15 minutes ago, BigJase88 said:

It’s not 😱

 

🚗➕⚡= 🚀🧬⚗️?

 

I cant work out your maths... as one of your pictographs is a rectangle...

13 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@BigJase88 the thing is that it is even easier to get caught a bit over the speed limit in a EV than in a high top speed / quick car as you easily get up to the limit without noise or sense of speed.  Us that have had tickets and bans need to take special care.   Heading passed your way later, I hope the cloak of invisibility is functioning.  

Be wary of that A75 🤣

 

i got done 119mph on there 😭 (long time ago) when a were a lad

I know. 

What we need is some sort of clean electric vehicle than can be refuelled in minutes, I wonder if this technology is out there somewhere???????

 

1 minute ago, SuperbTWM said:

What we need is some sort of clean electric vehicle than can be refuelled in minutes, I wonder if this technology is out there somewhere???????

 

 

Standardised replaceable battery packs?

 

Drive into a "filling station". Machine removes old battery pack(s) and replaces them with fully charged ones. Old packs could be tested and you would only be charged for the amount of energy that you had used. Small cars might only have one standardised pack whilst large cars with more range might have two or more.

 

But it would not work as electric car manufacturers cannot even agree on a standardised charging plug never mind a standard battery pack size, shape, voltage and connector.

Or.... a something like a ZPM?....

 

Or... i wonder if it would be possible to harness the energy potential of a single element... i reckon hydrogen would be the simplest, seeing as its the simplest atomic structure....

 

2 hours ago, mac11irl said:

 

I cant work out your maths... as one of your pictographs is a rectangle...

2 plus 2 is 4 minus 1 is 3, qwik maffs

2 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

I know. 

Kettles on where you at?

9 hours ago, BigJase88 said:

Kettles on where you at?

He was doing 121mph on the A75

 

14 hours ago, BigJase88 said:

For me until they can recharge themselves it is a non viable option for me.

 

a self charging hybrid right now is the best option. Full electric hows that going to work for haulage, electric lorry with a range of 50 miles. That’s going to be good

I see Toyota have done a great job on you. 

 

Self charging hybrids are an oxymoron. Technically correct in the same way all battery-only electric vehicles's are partially self-charging and all cars from dawn of time are self charging its 12v batteries. They are good in the sense they reduce carbon emissions by shifting the unsuitable work (eg. moving off from start) away from ICE. But ultimately, ALL of their energy comes from the very inefficient internal combustion engine, producing carbon emissions, polluting the local environment. 

 

13 hours ago, BigJase88 said:

Even my work van some days i can do 300 miles, if you think im sitting at a service station for an hour a day waiting on the van to charge then you have another thing coming.....

Currently, only the highest end EV is suitable for you due to your milage needs. Tesla Model Long Range are the only option. But remember, if you have a 200 miles EV (which most are these days), your lunch break will take longer than time needed to recharge. This is because everyday, you can set off with full 200 miles range, and thus you only need to recharge 100 miles, which can be 15 minutes. Whereas UK law dictates 30 minutes break. 

 

But range extended EV with powertrain like the BMW i3 REx could be suitable if you do ~100 miles normally, only need the 300 miles range on odd days. The key is to shift the vast majority of private transport energy use to grid, the grid is ever getting greener and thus whole EV fleet is ever getting greener. While aging cars isn't getting retrofitted with latest emission tech. 

Howcome, the EV nuts always think there is somewhere to charge or that the charger is local to the end of your journey.

I do a 220 mile journey every other week. 110 there, 110 back. The nearest charger is just over a mile away from my destination.