New proposed ICE vehicles sales ban in UK from 2035

[wyx087]

The last date to buy a new petrol, diesel or hybrid car in the UK will be brought forward from 2040 to 2035, under government plans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

 

I'm sure ICE car makers, who are primarily engine manufactures, that happen to also put together cars from parts suppliers, will be screaming and kicking against this until their bitter end. 

 

Cue the usual: 

- My diesel does 600 miles, so my future car must also do 600 miles despite only driving 60 miles a day (think about your actual needs) 

- Where are people going to charge (where people will park for long time) 

- The infrastructure isn't there yet (true at the moment) 

- Coal powered car (the grid is getting cleaner by the day) 

- The grid can't cope (there is enough energy for all to switch to EV, just need to ensure we are smart about charging) 

- Rare earth material mining ethics (the war for oil in middle east is worse, they are working on batteries not needing cobalt) 

- Battery production is bad (Lifetime carbon emission of EV is lower than ICE, they say EV lifetime emission is half of ICE cars) 

- Battery can't be recycled (new industry popping up to recycle/repurpose EV battery) 

- Battery will die in 3 years time (totally false, car manufacturers give 8 years battery warranty, my first-gen EV still retains 85% of its original capacity at over 5yo) 

“A lithium-ion battery actually never dies,” said Hans Eric Melin, founder of London-based Circular Energy Storage Research and Consulting. “It’s just like you can take an alkaline battery out of your flashlight and put it into a remote control, and it’ll still be good enough.”

 

[Ootohere]

That proposed ban of being able to buy new Petrol & Diesel cars in Scotland is 12 years away in 2032.  They might now also say Hybrids but they are Petrol & Diesel cars.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41167607

 

The manufacturers need to get a shift on with more hydrogen car as well as EV's. 

 The Governments need to be doing more about the infrastructure across the UK.

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Breezy_Pete]

"Government plans" 😂😂

[Ootohere]

Plans coming inline with the plans of other governments in European Countries.

 

Car manufacturers will need to be making plans to tie in with these governments plans.

 

The Irish Government have set a date only 10 years away for their plan. So 2030.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48668791

 

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Paul007]

Are you ready for this ? Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 was quite happy this lunchtime, but then he's a cyclist and lives in London area. What about us out in the sticks ?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

[Ootohere]

So the UK Government announced bringing forward the ban on selling new petrol, diesel & hybrid cars and vans to 2035 from 2040.

 

Scottish Government already said 2032.

Irish Government (EU)  already said 2030.

Edited 4 February, 2020 by john999boy
Tidied up after merging with another thread.

[Aspman]

Hmm need to make sure to get a AM V12 before the ban.

[Guest BigJase88]

Electricity isn’t the way forward

 

i think they need to invest heavily in hydrogen, will be a really sad day when the last petrol powered combustion engine rolls off the production line 😭

[Carlston]

There could be a lot of ICE cars sold in 2034. Surely they will have to ban them all completely by 2045 or many drivers will carry on using their ICE cars.

 

Some ICE owners average over 93 mpg especially in the warmer summer months, so it makes sense to start banning the less economical vehicles first (and less economical drivers) in a phased banning period.

 

In Europe, cars that can do over 93mpg are called 3L/100km vehicles, ie. they only use 3 Litres of fuel every 100km.

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Carlston

[Ootohere]

@Carlston 

 Which cars are you speaking about getting an average 93 mpg?   That is pretty good a mpg over 100mpg at times to get an average of 93 mpg.

 

https://www.nextgreencar.com/mpg/best-mpg-cars/

 

 

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Carlston]

9 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@Carlston 

 Which cars are you speaking about getting an average 93 mpg?   That is pretty good a mpg over 100mpg at times to get an average of 93 mpg.

 

I am talking about 3L/100km cars, such as the VW Lupo 3L, the Audi A2 3L, and the Smart ForTwo diesel. Plug-in hybrids are also supposed to get really good mpg if you actually plug them in and use their electric motors.

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Carlston

[Ootohere]

All discontinued models. 

I had a Smart, not diesel and 2 seats, i had a Toyota iQ so 3.5 seats, now i could hypermile that.

 

@Carlston have you driven a hybrid, plug in or self charge.  I have hypermiled a Yaris Self Charge, that was good, 80 mpg possible, not average though. Town driving and short cold start trips are different from maybe starting off and driving a long enough distance to make up for the lower mpg over the early part of a trip.

A Niro that was good, 70's MPG, and a Niro Plug in it was not so good, 60's MPG.  That is Imperial gallons.

 

 

 

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[xman]

Unlikely to happen as the public have the final say through the ballot box.

 

But even if it did transpire, plenty of alternatives, LPG, CNG and other "not petrol/diesel” fuels.

[Ootohere]

LPG is great, so is CNG, the Manufacturers just need to get back into building these at the most efficient and then the Filling station having the tanks and pumps.

My 4.6 V8 Auto Land Rover was cheaper to run than a Diesel Landy.  Pumps started becoming scarce.

In Dundee many taxis were LPG as the Council Grant was very good and was used up annually.

Now Dundee is Electric City when it comes to Taxis and Council Vehicles.  

[@Lee]

15 minutes ago, xman said:

Unlikely to happen as the public have the final say through the ballot box.

 

But even if it did transpire, plenty of alternatives, LPG, CNG and other "not petrol/diesel” fuels.

I don't remember getting a vote on catalytic converters being mandatory nor a vote on Ad Blue, EGR's, DPF's seatbelts, number plate spacing etc etc.
Why would they give people a vote on banning fossil-fuel burning vehicles?

[john999boy]

Two threads merged with bits edited/hidden.

[xman]

56 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

I don't remember getting a vote on catalytic converters being mandatory nor a vote on Ad Blue, EGR's, DPF's seatbelts, number plate spacing etc etc.
Why would they give people a vote on banning fossil-fuel burning vehicles?

Still bitter about Brexit?

 

This is a UK government pledge. NOT EU (it doesn't matter what they have to say). We choose the UK government. It will be an issue come a future election.

 

You may not be able to vote on the matter.

Edited 4 February, 2020 by xman

[@Lee]

4 minutes ago, xman said:

Still bitter about Brexit?

My comment had nothing whatsoever to do with brexit. I was merely pointing out that nobody had a vote on Cats, EGR's, DPF's etc and asking why would we get a vote on banning fossil fuel burning cars as you seem to think  "the public have the final say through the ballot box".
 

[Breezy_Pete]

One party says "we'll rush through this change no matter the consequences"; the other party says "we need to think about this and do it when it's really right"  You choose the party...

[xman]

 

5 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

My comment had nothing whatsoever to do with brexit. I was merely pointing out that nobody had a vote on Cats, EGR's, DPF's etc and asking why would we get a vote on banning fossil fuel burning cars as you seem to think  "the public have the final say through the ballot box".
 

We had no say on those matters while imprisoned in the EU. Did you not notice the UK has recently left? 

 

Time to leave when Herr Lee arrives.....bye.......

[john999boy]

Do we really need to bring Brexit into any other thread than the Roadside Hotel one as the proposed inability to buy new ICE cars after 2035 has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Ootohere]

Some EU countries & European Countries were already at no more Petrol or Diesels to be sold from 2035 and want to be sooner. 

The Irish Government are at 2030 and they are in the EU and the Scottish that are not are 2032.

The Irish Government say they will not pass cars with ICE to be on the road from 2045.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868

 

If Low Emission Zones are in place soon enough to keep ICE vehicles out of City or Town centres then that will be that.

Edited 4 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[MoggyTech]

Not long ago the energy commission stated that the national grid was in a bad way, and a severe winter would cause power cuts. Given that this latest 'save the planet' project is being rolled out by politicians, I wonder how much thought is going into the infrastructure needed for every car on the road being electric.

 

Then there is the whopping tax on petrol and diesel  sales at the pump, how will they recover all that lost revenue? Then look at countries who's sole export is crude oil. I see change for sure, but dangerous change.

In a perfect World, everyone would have access to an EV charge point, and garage forecourts would still sell petrol and diesel as the ICE car slowly died out. 

 

With clowns in charge of the entire circus, I see strange times ahead.

[Ootohere]

The National Grid is not taking in the Electricity that can be generated from Offshore and Onshore Wind Farms that do not have Interconnectors, 

and then Renewable Generating Companies and Wind Turbine owners are paid to not generate electricity because there are contracts to buy in the expensive energy from abroad.  Diesel Farms have their contracts to fire up if required. 

https://gridwatch.co.uk

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48582270

http://whiteleewindfarm.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[wyx087]

9 hours ago, MoggyTech said:

Not long ago the energy commission stated that the national grid was in a bad way, and a severe winter would cause power cuts. Given that this latest 'save the planet' project is being rolled out by politicians, I wonder how much thought is going into the infrastructure needed for every car on the road being electric.

 

Then there is the whopping tax on petrol and diesel  sales at the pump, how will they recover all that lost revenue? Then look at countries who's sole export is crude oil. I see change for sure, but dangerous change.

Have you got source on that regarding the national grid? 

The grid has enough infrastructure and supply to deal with off-peak EV charging for all. As pointed out in my link in OP. 

Vehicle 2 Grid (V2G) will help the grid greatly, both in preventing power cuts and lessening demand created by EV charging. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid

 

Regarding tax, there can easily be ways to tax that will include EV's, here's few ideas for 2030: 

- per-mile tax (eg. 3p per mile, pay at MOT) 

- charging tax (eg. 100% tax for rapid charging, 20% tax for overnight charging, 0% tax for V2G) 

- first few years new-car tax (eg. £500 for ICE, £300 for PHEV, £200 for large battery, £100 for small battery) 

So if you plug in to V2G points and help the grid, you pay no tax for your service, 2p per mile assuming same rate as overnight charging, if you buy a ~200 miles car, you pay smallest amount of annual tax. This way, you can achieve 5p per mile (or 5.4p if using overnight charging) + £100 annual tax. 

Whereas if you buy PHEV (£300 annual), charge up only at rapid chargers (100% tax + 6p per mile), and use petrol (currently 14p per mile). Plus 3p per mile tax. A 50:50 elec-petrol ratio would mean cost you 16p per mile plus £300 annual tax. 

 

The key thing to remember is: 

With EV, government can levy a heavier tax at the start of car's life for those who can afford new cars. EV's get cleaner as they live: their lifetime per-mile emission decreases, the energy they use are always getting greener. 

With ICE, government can only target the poor who cannot afford newer cars, because older cars produce more emissions. Prime example is ULEZ.