Tyres- all season on front only?

[Ootohere]

@xman

 With zero traction at the front just do not bother taking the car because it has no action without traction.

Don't bother putting on chains or snow socks to get out of someplace if the cars crap once they are removed.

 

Having to learned to under age officially for my mums sake to drive in my mums Austin 1100 or my dads Maxi or 1800, 2200 etc i was pretty used to FWD's in fields and towing stuff. I was driving friends farm cars unofficially.

 

After a Morris Minor i had an Imp, an Anglia, and then all autos,  Cortina, another Cortina, a Granada, a Peugeot 504, a Daf 343,  All, had good tyres and usually best on the back for winter and summer all being rear wheel drive. My Minis, Metros, Fiat Strada, Fiat 132 got better front tyres, all automatics, all taken to the ski centres.

 

It must be what people want and need and consider suits their needs, and others opinions are just that. 

You have to live and learn, or maybe wipe yourself out or some other innocent person.

Edited 7 March, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Stonker]

Last January I had to make a call, my Dunlop sport max tyres on the front of my Octavia were in need of changing, I commute daily from one side of Peak District to the other to work, an 80 miles round trip. I'd started struggling getting up hill and down dale because of the snow and ice on the roads.

 

Costco had a money off deal on Michelin tyres. So I had a pair of cross climate tyres fitted, as their policy is to fit them to the rear to prevent the back end sliding out, I swapped the fronts to the rear and rears to the front when I got home, so that the Michelin cross climate tyres were now on the front.

 

Instantly better, not once did I find I was struggling to get to work or anywhere else for that matter. I know my limits, the cars limits and capabilities and I drove in accordance with the conditions. 

 

Those Michelin cross climate tyres were replaced this January when I had wore them down over circa 23,000 miles. I had a full set of Michelin cross climate tyres fitted and I am more than happy with the decision. But I can certainly say, I would have a pair of cross climate tyre's fitted to the front again in a heartbeat with summers on the rear.

 

It's not rocket science, just be sensible in cold conditions, simples. I'm shocked to see how many people have slated this, obviously this is down to I'll informed advice off the internet and not from first hand experience.

[xman]

13 minutes ago, Stonker said:

 

Costco had a money off deal on Michelin tyres. So I had a pair of cross climate tyres fitted, as their policy is to fit them to the rear to prevent the back end sliding out, I swapped the fronts to the rear and rears to the front when I got home, so that the Michelin cross climate tyres were now on the front.

 

13 minutes ago, Stonker said:

 

obviously this is down to I'll informed advice off the internet and not from first hand experience.

 

So why do think every tyre place insists on fitting a new pair to the rear and never on the front?

 

Answer: their liabilty insurance insists on it. And I'm pretty sure insurance companies don't use ill informed information off the internet to make that stipulation.

 

Personal decision yes. Your risk, your skill level, your life.

[Ootohere]

@xman

Everyplace does not insist.  COSTCO has a policy.     Don't make stuff up to prove a point.

 

You pull in for tyres with a car with different tyre sizes front and rear and want front tyres you get front tyres, Porsche, BMW etc etc.

 

Good tyres on the front and maybe new on the back another time. 

Edited 8 March, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[xman]

Every tyre centre I've used in the last 10 years or so has a similar policy. I once tried to get Kwikfit to fit to the front only, they refused, stating policy and insurance reasons. They would turn down work if I didn't agree to fit on the rear.

[Ootohere]

@xman If you ever worked as a tyre fitter or in a garage then that would be something, but since you were a customer and used the likes of Kwik Fit then that is what happens, 

you get feed crap as you have at garages.

[xman]

https://btmauk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Replacing-car-tyres-important-information.pdf

 

https://kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/

 

https://www.uniroyal-tyres.com/car/tyre-guide/tyre-knowledge/good-tyres-on-front-or-rear

 

https://www.bushtyres.co.uk/tyre-news/new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear

 

https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-rotation

 

Edited 8 March, 2020 by xman

[Stonker]

10 minutes ago, xman said:

Every tyre centre I've used in the last 10 years or so has a similar policy. I once tried to get Kwikfit to fit to the front only, they refused, stating policy and insurance reasons. They would turn down work if I didn't agree to fit on the rear.

Costco said the same, they'll fit to the rear only because that is their policy. No mention of insurance, but the fitter agreed with my reasoning and he suggested that I swapped them when I got home. As I did.

 

I'm still here to tell you about it. Sometimes you just need to be honest with yourself, can you always ensure that you are disciplined every time you venture out on the roads? If you can't then don't think for yourself, just do as someone else tells you to do.

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, xman said:

https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-rotation

 

From your link I noticed the below, I wonder what simpleton thought up this one? Or where they got their facts from?

 

Partly worn tyres are more likely to experience punctures – particularly in wet weather conditions

 

iirc, kwik fit are in the business of selling tyre's. This is baffling with bull in my eyes. Only my opinion mind. I have been a Kwik fit customer on many occasions, every time I have been a customer in one of their centers I have witnessed them on the heavy sell tactics on a young unsuspecting female, "well this needs doing and that is not really safe for much longer, etc etc" I even knew an ex kwik fit fitter who had to leave because he didn't agree with their heavy selling tactics.

 

Each to their own and we all have to live and learn, hence why I don't use them anymore.

[Alex-W]

11 hours ago, flybynite said:

 

It is, unless you can stop everyone else on the road driving like an idiot as well.

 

Nope, I can't.

Which is why I value faith in my ability to stop over my ability take slippery country road bends at inappropriate speeds.

 

 

I've had bad (summer) tyres on the front before, repeatedly lost traction and underteered towards kerbs.

Swapped them to the back and drove the next 20k miles with no issues whatsoever.

 

Also, in ~20 years of driving I've only once had a tyre place have an opinion on which axel my new tyres go on.  And they put the new ones in the front.

 

The repercussions of losing the back end may be greater, however the likelihood of it happening is less as they're simply doing much less.  If that wasn't the case they wouldn't wear out so slowly.

 

I can only recall the back end sliding on any of my cars twice.

Once was due to a slow puncture I was unaware of and caused the whole car to become rather unbalanced on wet roads 

The other, I was driving too fast on new (not scrubbed in) tyres and that was my fault.  The back end of the car decided it wanted to kiss the verge on the other side of the road...  And then the right side...  And then the wrong side.

Thankfully I saved it, however I was well aware it was my fault, not the tyres and over a decade later have never repeated that as it was not pleasant.

 

Edited 8 March, 2020 by Alex-W

[flybynite]

As ever, we are talking about a few different things here, and only one of them is what the OP asked

 

Putting slightly more worn tyres of the same type on the back of the car will (IMHO) not make a whole heap of difference especially on a car with any modern stability control but it is still NOT recommended. If you have new tyres on the front and bald ones on the back then that is obviously going to be a slightly different matter.

 

Mixing different TYPES of tyre on the car is NOT OK.

 

@Roottootemblowinootsoot (can you make your name shorter to type please )

 

George, you and I both grew up with radial and crossply tyres and mixing them DID kill people. So much so they put it into law. But you could put crossplys on the front. That was less of a performance difference than between summer and all-season tyres today

 

I grew up on Escorts until they drove the wrong wheels, I had many bits of German machinery with heavy lumps up front generating well north of 300bhp through staggered wheels and nothing but a plate LSD to save you. I have no problems going sideways or catching it. I have, and still do drive these things across Europe and Scandinavia in the winter.

 

I have driven many winters on winter tyres and more recently all-season tyres in all conditions and I think I drove on snow tyres a couple of times too.

 

As I have said before on here, my winters went on the front one April when a flooded pothole took out 2 tyres. Two day wait for replacement PS4’s. Given the time of year my thinking was it would be safe enough.

 

4am cold snap and some idiot pulls out on me mid-bend. The front just stops the back end tried to swap ends harder than the overpowered RWD machinery ever has.

 

The problem here is you get people say this

 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Stick the all seasons on the front, drive it normally

 

When their experience with the actual things in question is this

 

18 hours ago, Alex-W said:

Incidentally, I've never had all seasons

 

The problem is someone might actually read some of it and do it. Danger of asking for advice on some forums I guess

[Alex-W]

And you get people scaremongering suggesting that by improving the grip on the front wheels, you're suddenly going to lose the back end.  Strangely enough, the back hasn't just lost grip because you added some more at the front.

 

I have never needed to use all seasons, however I have had much differently grip tyres front and rear.

 

 

Ok, let's put it another way, if you advise people to put the all seasons on the back, as it's apparently safer...  Then when you get a hot day and the summer tyres actually perform better, it'll swap and you'll be in the same situation anyway.

So to make it safe and stop losing the back end, you need to swap the wheels over every time the temperature swings North and South of 8 degrees?

 

Best method is to aim to not lose grip on any of the wheels tbh.

[Ootohere]

The point that seems to be missed is.

All Seasons like Michelin CrossClimate are OK, i have 4 CrossClimate SUV's on my 4x4 which is mostly in RWD but can go in AWD.

I have had them on 4 wheels on others cars and just on the front in the past years.

 

They are nothing special on ice. 

So if you get a Brand New Skoda on the pretty crap 4 eco tyres they arrive with they are not all of a sudden a dangerous car by putting 2 CrossClimate on the front and going places you would have with the Continental, Pirelli, Dunlop, Nexis, Maxxis etc.

 

Stories of the better front tyres not aquaplaning and the rears lifting on the flooded road is a lot of crap.

 

Do not have crap tyres on the front or rear.  The car came to you with what tyres they had, be that a 2 wheel drive or with Haldex.

The Bridgestone on a Kodiaq , Karoq 4x4 are pure and utter rubbish.

 

Drive with care and use your bonce and get proper tyres on your car for where you drive and how you drive because the VW group will even supply 

cars you expect to perform on bad roads and bad weather with what is in effect ditch finders.

Then they have all the electrics to supposedly keep you safe.

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

 

 

They are nothing special on ice. 

 

 

All seasons are not made for ice. They are better for colder, wetter conditions. Winter tyres that are sold in the UK are another step on in the cold, wet performance ratings.

 

The take away should be that if fitting all season or winter tyres you should stick to the whole car.

[Ootohere]

Exactly nothing special on ice, summer tyres winter cerificated. Like I said I have them and have had others.  There are times that all 4 might not need changing. Spring now, still frosty sometimes, head up skiing and you have the car parking to get on  and off again. The weather can change, you can have to take long diversions if snow drifts and snow gates close.  Live in the word you acrually live in, not some imaginary  one where the weather is the same from October to May all over the UK every year.  Easy to swap a pair to suit that few days, then swap as the sun is splitting the pavement the next day.

 

Stick a matching pair in the car as spares instead of snow chains or socks that can be a PITA with your 4 matching OEM tyres to fit.

If away and the weather changes which can affect you plans stick the pair on your drive wheels.

Or if you get a puncture don't be landed sticking the 1 odd one out spare tyre.

 

If you have 4 CrossClimate or other All Seasons that are a compromise maybe do not buy 1 or 2 more as spares,.

get a pair of better tyres to use if the conditions are worse than CrossClimates deal with.

 

Edited 8 March, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[flybynite]

3 hours ago, Alex-W said:

Ok, let's put it another way, if you advise people to put the all seasons on the back, as it's apparently safer... 

 

Not advocating that at all, for just that reason. Don't mix TYPES of tyre unless you KNOW you have less grip on the front (like the radial and crossply issue of old)

 

The performance balance can change between all season and summer tyres during the course of a day so just don't do it..........simples

 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Strangely enough, the back hasn't just lost grip because you added some more at the front.

 

Correct, but it will if you have to brake hard in a turn.

 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Best method is to aim to not lose grip on any of the wheels tbh.

 

Absolutely with you on that one, 100%

[skippy41]

Been running  cross climates for the last 3 years simply the best and getting around 45 k on the fronts before being replaced  the backs are getting around 60K

[paulski]

Looking at the rears today, depth is actually more like 4mm and one has a puncture repair anyway.  On further consideration, I'll change all 4 as car is relatively new to me, (8 months). 

 

I've been out in the torrents of rain of late a lot, and drive accordingly. I went past a Mini that had spun out into the crash barrier on a short bit of dual carriage way near Eastbourne last week. Clearly this had happened when it hit large amount of water across the road at speed, there's hardly a curve in the road that point and no other cars involved, all due to not reading the conditions of the road. I took at least 25-30 MPH off my normal speed on that leg that day as it was quite frankly horrendous driving conditions. 

 

Looking around I could get the Cross Climates' at present for £76.50 a corner on a deal with Kwikfit,  food for thought, but I still question the need down here so may just plump for some good summers all round as that's what I've had all the time on previous car. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gaz]

Was that the westbound incident on the Polegate by-pass?

 

My GTI is on its original Bridgestone S001a's, which is what the vRS came with before it.  Not a tyre I'd recommend, or buy, but not quite bad enough to just bin.  When I changed the vRS to, firstly Avon ZV7's and then PS4's, both were step-changes.

 

PS4's are my tyre of choice now.  But to be fair, Cross-climate's are going to see you through whatever we're going to get seasonally down here.  At that price it's probably a bit of a no-brainer.

 

Gaz

[paulski]

Gaz yes indeed it was the westbound Polegate Bypass accident. I don't think I've seen a pool of water that large on that stretch  before in the 8 years I've been driving it. Must have been quite terrifying for the driver. 

 

  I'm on standard 16's, but will look around for a price for PS4

 

[skippy41]

12 hours ago, paulski said:

Looking at the rears today, depth is actually more like 4mm and one has a puncture repair anyway.  On further consideration, I'll change all 4 as car is relatively new to me, (8 months). 

 

I've been out in the torrents of rain of late a lot, and drive accordingly. I went past a Mini that had spun out into the crash barrier on a short bit of dual carriage way near Eastbourne last week. Clearly this had happened when it hit large amount of water across the road at speed, there's hardly a curve in the road that point and no other cars involved, all due to not reading the conditions of the road. I took at least 25-30 MPH off my normal speed on that leg that day as it was quite frankly horrendous driving conditions. 

 

Looking around I could get the Cross Climates' at present for £76.50 a corner on a deal with Kwikfit,  food for thought, but I still question the need down here so may just plump for some good summers all round as that's what I've had all the time on previous car.

 

Summers don't last as long , and in the wet the cross climates stop you quicker if needed, they are also a lot quieter on most road surfaces

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

I would put the all seasons on the rear and run the summers out on the front axle during the summer.

 

That way you’ll be in a position to complete the all seasons set sooner.

 

 

[seriesdriver]

Hi, best tyres to rear basically because front axle understeer controllable by most people rear axle oversteer not so much.

[Ootohere]

More like most people do not know what the rear tyres pressures are at, or what rear axle oversteer means, or understeer, or the TC / ASR lights flasing, or what the ESP does when their car has it.

[Kental]

I've got 16" wheels & Cross Climates, much quieter than the Michelin Energys the car came with.  My Energys did less than 1000 miles before I replaced them.

Even though I live in Kent, all our cars have all season tyres on.  Our daughter's car has Vredestein Quadtrac 5 tyres on as Cross Climates were not available in her size. 

My wife's Fiesta had the factory tyres swapped to Cross Climates before we collected it.

I think I've got nearly as many unseated tyres in my garage as some tyre fitters!!!