Superbly Disappointed Part 1

[g_tee]

22 hours ago, xman said:

 

I have the ten inch touch screen Columbus, but its mounted so low down its positively dangerous at times to look and use. (Yes I know I can go through umpteem menus with the steering wheel button but never ever found my contact list that way, just last dialled)

I also find 3d mode far too messy and difficult to interpret at a glance so its set to 2d mode. Sat nav is quite naff. Turn half right.....yeah.

 

 

 

Turn half right - I mean, genuine lol first time I heard that. Thank goodness for Android Auto and Google Maps!

 

[silver1011]

Hopefully ACC has advanced since I last used it in a Golf GTD almost two years ago.

 

On a dual carriageway a lorry in front moved from lane 1 to lane 2, overtaking another lorry.

 

I was already in lane 2 and being new to ACC (it was a rental car) I decided to let it do its thing.

 

As it happened "its thing" was not a lot. It waited until the overtaking lorry was fully in lane 2 before braking, by which point I was pretty close, cue heavy braking.

 

It also then waited until the lorry was fully back in lane 1, before accelerating hard back up to 70mph. Everyone around me must have thought I was a pretty poor driver.

 

It was all a bit unnecessary, and I'd have been able to do a much better job by pressing the pedals myself.

 

Each to their own, but this short experience was enough for me to avoid it when ordering my Kodiaq.

[Mickey43]

On 16/03/2020 at 17:44, evilC said:

We purchased a 2020 Superb Combi 1.5Tsi SE at the end of January, ordered as a priority due to the Octavia TDi being declared an 'uneconomic repair'  I chose the Superb SE as to fitted our needs and has been hailed as the best car in the sector. We had no time to test drive a Superb and besides, the sort of extended test I would need to carry out invariably isn't available, so I trust the 'experts'  I am genuinely pleased with the car, its dynamics, architecture and space HOWEVER, I am sorely disappointed with the electronic technology that has been shovelled into the vehicle that is a dangerous distraction from safe and competent driving.  You only need to checkout the plethora of 3 letter acronyms in the brochure that are proclaimed as the state of the art without once explaining their function or need.

Starting off with A)  The adaptive cruise control 

I have been a fan of cruise in my vehicles for the past 20 years that I use intelligently, switching it in and out to maintain good steady progress over many (sometimes hundreds of) miles that I am fully in control of.  Adaptive cruise takes that control away as it has a mind of its own as to whether it accelerate, decelerate or violently brake as it cannot finesse all the surrounding vehicle.  I find it both irritating and possibly dangerous that the ACC slams on the anchors as you pass a vehicle legitimately in the left lane.  This occurs in speed restricted roadworks where at times all three lanes of a motorway can be travelling at different speeds and where cruise control is a distinct advantage, especially where the roadworks can be 20+ miles long.  Today, I entered a long motorway off-ramp in cruise and passed a slow moving wagon in lane 1 of the motorway at which point the car slammed the anchors on to the fright of my wife!  God help anyone who could have been following me.  This raises a BIG issue for our trips to Europe where we have in the past relied on cruise control to easy the long journeys.  Using cruise control whilst legitimately passing vehicles on the left side will result in a stop/start progress   Don't the engineering nerds/geeks at VAG realise that their vehicle will be used outside of their normal countries?  All I want is a non-adaptive cruise control.

  DRIVER ALERT! - TAKE A BREAK!

It appears that I may have exhibited a too relaxed driving style and the stupid vehicle electronics had determined that I was falling asleep!!  I can assure everyone that I was fully alert and driving very safely and making good progress.  I have always been considered by others to be a particularly smooth and relaxed driver even when competing in motorsport events and I find it somewhat objectionable to be told that I appeared not to be driving properly by a stupid machine!

This is just the beginning as the car has too many gimmicks on the basis of 'cos we can' rather than because it is needed.  If there was a Superb (or any other competent similar car)  without any of the gizmos I would have bought it, but we are stuck with an electronic nightmare.    

As an aside, Clarkson's Sunday Times column this week end was quite amusing in that he was ranting at all the nerd advice relating to the tech to be included in his new house, as he says, he is fully capable of turning the heating on and off manually and doesn't need a potentially suspect electronic gizmo that needs a cocktail stick to press the buttons!!  So where are his principles in relation to the electronic junk that now plagues modern motoring brought in by the farhtocrats in Brussels?   

 

I politely disagree with everything you say.

[Auric Goldfinger]

 "  Superbly Disappointed Part 1 "

 

Do you think there might be a Part 2.   

[evilC]

On 17/03/2020 at 12:47, xman said:

 

I have the ten inch touch screen Columbus, but its mounted so low down its positively dangerous at times to look and use. (Yes I know I can go through umpteem menus with the steering wheel button but never ever found my contact list that way, just last dialled)

I also find 3d mode far too messy and difficult to interpret at a glance so its set to 2d mode. Sat nav is quite naff. Turn half right.....yeah.

 

 

.Using any control in a vehicle should be 'one touch' as any thing else is a dangerous distraction also, those controls should be simply located by touch to maximise the attention on the road. 

 

14 hours ago, KeteCantek said:

I think others have covered the 'understand how ACC works' bit. 

 

I am just curious why you would drive the superb when you have a Mercedes 500E. I agree a transit van would be better for the tip run and maybe towing! 

Its a  question of horses for courses.  The 500E has 285,000 Kms on the clock, of which 190,000 Kms are mine, it cannot be fitted with a tow bar, for all sorts of sane reasons and parts for it are very scarce as only 1500 were built by Porsche.  For example, LH dip headlamp lenses are non-existent and I must have purchased the last two from the state of the packaging.  I therefore use it sparingly.

 

4 hours ago, IanJD said:

With any add-ons like ACC or driver alert there are always some negative points for some people, but if the result is overwhelmingly positive for most people fitting them is easy to justify. Yes some people may get a bit irritated by the driver alert system, on the other hand systems like this have been shown to reduce crashes and save lives by alerting sleepy/tired drivers.

 

The whole point of safety-focused add-ons is that statistically they aim to reduce accident/death rates, which is precisely why fitting them is encouraged by safety ratings. If you're irritated and demand that Skoda delete the driver alert and they did and somebody was killed as a result, would you want to be the one to go and tell their family?

 

Yes I know that it's well-nigh impossible to show correlation between a feature like this and a particular accident, but the effect overall is exactly the same if fewer people get killed overall, we just can't say exactly which ones were killed (or saved) by it -- the effect is there, even if it's much smaller than (say) seat belts or airbags.

I am all in favour of having worthwhile safety features in vehicles but the choice of which to use must be the driver's.  The very sad fact is that a good deal of the add on modern safety features seem to have stemmed from the inclusion of abs that has allowed the inclusion of then ETC and the plethora of associated features that were very cheap add-ons.  Parking sensors spawned Lane Assist, ACC (as opposed to CC) etc.  Its clearly advantageous for the manufacturers to add these cheap features into vehicles as a sales point as well as persuading the legislators to mandate them so as to make their products more desirable.  Crucially, having all these 'safety' features masks the real issue - poor driving.  Training drivers properly and regularly would net much greater safety, but that wouldn't sell cars, in fact, it would reduce sales as less people would be declared competent?  

[shyVRS245]

What part of Leicestershire are you? I'm in the NW and loved the 500E concept. When Porsche get involved with other manufacturers such as the original Audi S2 Estate the product ends up being better than the sum of its parts. PM me if you have any spare time love to see your special Mercedes and take you for a spin in my 360bhp Superb.

[evilC]

22 hours ago, GAG said:

If you are a self confessed  "control freak" remember you don't have to use ACC , you could control the car your self and actually drive it.

But I have been a huge advocate of the Cruise Control in both the Octavia and Merc, which I am in full control over, that is all that I want.  Its the extent of the adaptive part that I find objectionable.

 

15 hours ago, JR RS said:

 

my wife hates all the fancy driver assist systems too, such as ACC, Lane Assist, Driving Modes, Park Pilot etc etc.

so when she drives the Superb, they're all turned off or not used.  its very simple.  she doesn't get disappointed, or whinge about it.

 

i read the manual, and used the driver personalisation feature to make sure that when her profile is selected, with her key, all the driver assistance systems r deactivated. 

when i drive, cause i understand the tech, those assist systems r activated.

 

its not rocket science.

 

we don't mean to bag u out - but when u start a topic with "Superbly disappointed", ur already blaming the car without understanding the car ur driving or the tech ur dealing with.

hence the harsh responses ur getting.

had u started ur topic with "help, i don't like/understand why my car is doing this", u would've got very different answers from the forum members, and pleasant ones.

I am not aware that my Superb can be personalise and if so does that mean that I have to re-programme the electronics every time we change drivers or is there a simple switch to identify individuals?

 

4 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

They can be safety devices when understood by drivers.  Where drivers read an owners manual and one not lost in translation.

Where it is clearly understood that there are roads, routes, locations and weather conditions where unlike a seat belt, ABS, ESP etc they are not suitable to enable.

There are even places and times that TC can need switched off in some vehicles in some conditions, like to free a vehicle, fir snow chains etc.

 

There are some drivers that should maybe by vehicles with less technology if it is smarter than them, and then drive fully switched on and paying due care and attention.

The point here is that new vehicles always have MORE technology not less.  I would love to purchase a vehicle with the specification I want and not what is presented to me.  I enjoy all the vehicles in my stable but even the Merc is due a mod to the gearbox to allow the ETC to be temporarily disabled as well as the ABS (if possible) so as to improve control over a greater range of conditions.  The so called safety features cannot assist in all circumstances and all conditions, when an experienced and knowledgeable driver can quickly adapt to them.     

 

[evilC]

16 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

What part of Leicestershire are you? I'm in the NW and loved the 500E concept. When Porsche get involved with other manufacturers such as the original Audi S2 Estate the product ends up being better than the sum of its parts. PM me if you have any spare time love to see your special Mercedes and take you for a spin in my 360bhp Superb.

 

[Ootohere]

@evilC

You could have got a good Central or Eastern European Estate car.  Maybe a Dacia Logan.

[evilC]

17 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

What part of Leicestershire are you? I'm in the NW and loved the 500E concept. When Porsche get involved with other manufacturers such as the original Audi S2 Estate the product ends up being better than the sum of its parts. PM me if you have any spare time love to see your special Mercedes and take you for a spin in my 360bhp Superb.

 We must be close, I am in LE9 looking for King Richard's horse.

When I am back back in circulation - I am self isolating for at least 12 weeks- I will get in touch  

[evilC]

1 minute ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@evilC

You could have got a good Central or Eastern European Estate car.  Maybe a Dacia Logan.

Are there any good ones?  The Superb is well built large estate car with good dynamics and very good packaging - I don;t think that applies to the Dacia and besides it has Renault underpinnings that sends it to the bottom of the pile for me.

[shyVRS245]

Ignore some of the muppets on here I have 11 on my ignore list. I never judge anyone until I have met someone but some make up their mind just from a thread title. Look forward to meeting you.

[BOD20]

I too came from an Octavia to the Superb within the last few weeks.

 

I haven't used the Superb's ACC much yet so I can't comment on any particular issues with that. But I'm always cautious of those systems anyway - my view is that they are there as driver aids to be overridden by the driver at the first sign of an "issue". It's not a self-driving car therefore it's always my responsibility to be fully attentive and actually drive the car.

 

But I have to agree that sometimes systems get upgraded and improved for appearance sake and not for improved functionality.

 

In the Octavia I had the Amundsen MIB2 infotainment system, with separate menu button each side of the main screen for each function (Radio, Media, Satnav, Car etc.) To switch from one screen to another required a single touch on a single button.

 

In the Superb I have the Columbus 9.2. Don't get me wrong - I like the big screen and like the system in general. But to move from the Satnav screen to the Media screen, for example, now requires me to press "Menu" then look at the screen and select "Media". To get back to Satnav I have to press "Menu", look at the screen, and press "Satnav".  More time looking at screen and looking at my finger pressing the button (and yes, I know you can use the "Home" screen to view 3 things at once but the functionality of each of those things is limited in that mode and I still have to get to the fullscreen display for certain functions).

 

Perhaps it's all easier on a LHD car where the infotainment buttons on the left side of the screen are closer to the driver and you don't have to reach across the screen. And I'll get used to it, of course I will. But I'm happy with the Superb as i was with the Octavia.

[KenONeill]

@evilC - I've just read this thread, and pretty much agree with you.

 

On the "are you tired?" point, the usual complaint passengers level at me is that I'm "so smooth a driver that they fall asleep until I react to being cut up". I guess your progress is similar?

I actually diagnose tiredness as "when I can't remember the last few miles' landmarks and/or distinctive vehicles".

Edited 18 March, 2020 by KenONeill

[BOD20]

I used to get the "Take a break" message in my Octavia.

 

At the strangest times too. I could never make sense of it as it would sometimes pop up after being on a motorway for only 30 minutes or so after driving country roads for 45 minutes prior to that. And these are Scottish "motorways" so you don't get to drive at a constant 70mph for any length of time or stay in the same lane much either.

 

And then occasionally even on the country roads.

[IanJD]

2 hours ago, evilC said:

But I have been a huge advocate of the Cruise Control in both the Octavia and Merc, which I am in full control over, that is all that I want.  Its the extent of the adaptive part that I find objectionable.

 

I am not aware that my Superb can be personalise and if so does that mean that I have to re-programme the electronics every time we change drivers or is there a simple switch to identify individuals?

 

The point here is that new vehicles always have MORE technology not less.  I would love to purchase a vehicle with the specification I want and not what is presented to me.  I enjoy all the vehicles in my stable but even the Merc is due a mod to the gearbox to allow the ETC to be temporarily disabled as well as the ABS (if possible) so as to improve control over a greater range of conditions.  The so called safety features cannot assist in all circumstances and all conditions, when an experienced and knowledgeable driver can quickly adapt to them.     

 

Same principle as "ABS can't always brake as fast as an experienced driver using cadence braking" -- which is true, but such drivers are outnumbered 100:1 by less skilled and experienced drivers for whom ABS is literally a life-saver. As a self-identified fantastic driver you'd like to purchase a vehicle without such intrusive add-ons which interfere with your enjoyment of the vehicle.

 

But manufacturers won't make a vehicle ("R" for Risky?) just for a tiny minority of superb drivers like you, they insist on adding on all these pesky safety features to save the lives of the majority of idiots, and they don't want it to be possible to turn these features off because if they do more people/idiots will turn them off and die as a result -- and they're fitted as standard not made optional (at extra cost) because penny-pinching idiots won't order them. If safety features can be turned off temporarily for exceptional cases (like ABS) they're turned back on automatically the next time the car is started. These are the general principles of how car safety is improved.

 

So the obvious consequence is that some idiots will die so you can not be irritated by what you see as superfluous safety features. Is that your position?

Edited 18 March, 2020 by IanJD

[D-Cunningham]

I'm 68 and bought the top of the range L&K just before New Year. As people will know, it has all the bells and whistles that Skoda provide, in spades. It took me a while to read the manual and figure out what I might like to change from what my extremely helpful sales guy at Marshalls had set up for me at handover. Now that I know what the car can do, I'm a fan of all the tech stuff because it lets me concentrate on being an observant driver. Why? Because that's pretty much all that's left for me to do. The car is set up to slide through the DSG box, stop at junctions/red lights, etc while I just wait until it's time to go and press gently on the accelerator. If I want, it will handle lane assist, but I prefer to look after that myself. The camera is a big help when reversing. The blind spot detector is great at avoiding accidents too. The automatic dimming lights are a wonder to behold in night driving. I love all this kit. The one thing that I do find a bit irritating (maybe I fling my arms round wildly while driving!) is the 'sweep' function on the central console - the one that allows you to control your music tracks by waving your hand in an appropriate direction, for instance. I'm cack handed enough to be halfway through a track, then involuntarily wave my hand and find myself back at the start of the track, or on to the next track. Is that cause for throwing a major strop? No. I just sift through the Settings and turn it off. And if that is the worst part of the 'driver assistance' offered by Skoda, I'm one very contented L&K owner. Most people who've been in my car and have been shown the equipment marvel at how helpful it is. There's not a soul who's wanted, to coin a phrase, "take back control". I leave all that fuss and bother to the car. It seems to know very well how to make my driving experience as relaxed and as safe as it can be. Modern technology - I'm an old codger who's all for it!

[JR RS]

5 hours ago, evilC said:

I am not aware that my Superb can be personalise and if so does that mean that I have to re-programme the electronics every time we change drivers or is there a simple switch to identify individuals?

 

Again, it's all explained in the manual.

 

Assuming u have KESSY - there is no need to "re-program" everytime u switch drivers.

The Personalisation feature enables u to assign different settings to different driver profiles.  U can have up-to 4 driver profiles.

U can then assign driver profiles to individual keys.

So when u use a particular key to unlock/start the car, it will automatically load the settings assigned to the associated driver profile.

Edited 18 March, 2020 by JR RS

[SuperbTWM]

I know this doesn't help you at all, but I have recently purchased a 2015 Ford S-max for my missus which has ACC and in the settings you can turn it off and have it as regular cruise control. I find that rather surprising as there has been quite a few threads over the years that just can't get on with ACC and would like to just have regular CC and it would be so easy for VAG to put in that option but its like they deliberately didn't want people to have the option.

 

Personally I wouldn't be without it now, I find my drive a lot more relaxing knowing the ACC is looking after me, with the amount of distractions, gadgets and phones etc. that people seem to be far too engrossed in, having ACC and front assist can only ever be a good thing.

[mandp]

1 hour ago, SuperbTWM said:

I know this doesn't help you at all, but I have recently purchased a 2015 Ford S-max for my missus which has ACC and in the settings you can turn it off and have it as regular cruise control. I find that rather surprising as there has been quite a few threads over the years that just can't get on with ACC and would like to just have regular CC and it would be so easy for VAG to put in that option but its like they deliberately didn't want people to have the option.

 

Personally I wouldn't be without it now, I find my drive a lot more relaxing knowing the ACC is looking after me, with the amount of distractions, gadgets and phones etc. that people seem to be far too engrossed in, having ACC and front assist can only ever be a good thing.

I agree with you 90%.

The other 10% is your reference to `phones`.

Phones and cars are not good bedfellows.

[BillyJim]

3 hours ago, IanJD said:

Same principle as "ABS can't always brake as fast as an experienced driver using cadence braking" -- which is true,

Perhaps I'm just being nit-picking here but it's a common fallacy and is actually false. ABS (Anti-Blockier System) enables steering to be maintained by allowing the steered wheels to rotate when otherwise they would lock up (skid). Non-rotating wheels will always travel in a straight line no matter which way they're pointing. Maximum braking efficiency is actually obtained with all the wheels fully locked up as it offers the highest constant friction between the tyre and road surface. ABS was developed because in emergency panic braking many/most driver's don't think to take their foot off the brake, thus regain steering to avoid an obstruction or steer around the bend they approached too fast, and inevitably skid straight and headlong into a collision or off the road - then claim the steering didn't work.

 

Slightly back on topic and not intending to blow my own trumpet, nor castigate the OP, though I agree it was more a rant than a thought through argument, I'm a retired Class 1 Police Traffic Officer, was a Collision Investigator (yes, Mr Clarkson, the bad guy who would close your road for hours) and a Collision Reduction Officer (friendly title for the bar steward with the LTI 20-20 laser), so driving cars with a reasonable high performance has always been my thing.

In over 4 years of driving a Superb III equipped with all the toys I've only ever had the emergency braking apply once, as posted in the 280 thread many many moons ago, when a race-trim Jaguar pulled out directly in front of me without any indication and at a much slower speed than the 150 mph I was doing at the time - and it was not to overtake, just blind stupidity. Probably no surprise this was on the Autobahn soon after I passed the Nurburgring exit. Putting it mildly I wasn't impressed with the driver but was impressed that the Front Assist responded by applying the brakes a split second before I was able to hit the brake pedal. ACC was on and active at the time, set to the maximum 100 mph.

Other than on that one occasion I've had the red Front Assist warning appear on many occasions but never been in a situation where the car has needed to perform any automated braking.

To be fair at home I seldom use our motorways which means I also seldom use ACC but I also do thousands of miles a year across Western Europe (mostly in Germany) where I found ACC to be a real boon. Prior to this ACC equipped car I drove many cars with standard cruise control and/or speed limiters and wouldn't willingly want to go back to them, but that's my personal opinion though it's shared by many of my former colleagues who also have ACC.

 

The only negative I've had with ACC was the day I picked up my brand new car and wanted to try some of these new features. On a dual carriageway there was advanced warning of a lane 1 roadworks closure and traffic was starting to slow down. Great opportunity, I thought, to try this new-to-me fangled ACC for the first time, so being in lane 1 I set the ACC to 70 mph and let the car in front determine my speed. All was well until the car in front moved early into lane 2. The radar saw an empty lane and the car rapidly accelerated - what it couldn't see was the taper of plastic cones a couple of hundred yards ahead!

 

As for braking when overtaking on the nearside (undertaking is planting people 6' under) the system only activates if your speed is over 80 kph (50 mph) and faster than the offside vehicle. When you're familiar with it you can anticipate how/when ACC will respond and none-the-less you also get an advanced warning as it flashes up on the MFD showing an offside vehicle has been detected. A simple dab of the accelerator pedal overrides it.

 

I've only had the take a break appear once. Usually on my trips to the continent I take a short break to stretch my legs every 90-120 minutes but on this one occasion it was overnight and I decided to drive on through to avoid the morning commuter traffic, which in Germany is damned early. It was after about three hours that the message appeared - DRIVER ALERT TAKE A BREAK - though the image of a steaming coffee cup was quite enticing! This feature can be disabled in the infotainment's Car menu.

 

One final comment: A Police advanced driving school commentary always starts with the wording "I am driving a [make and model]. I am familiar with the controls and characteristics of this vehicle."

[D402]

7 hours ago, BillyJim said:

Maximum braking efficiency is actually obtained with all the wheels fully locked up as it offers the highest constant friction between the tyre and road surface.

I have to take issue with you on this point; locking up will increase stopping distance because the highest coefficient of friction occurs when the wheel is turning about 10-15% slower than the vehicle is moving. Typical curves of braking force coefficient versus wheel axle velocity and slip intensity.

 

 

[shyVRS245]

4 minutes ago, D402 said:

I have to take issue with you on this point; locking up will increase stopping distance because the highest coefficient of friction occurs when the wheel is turning about 10-15% slower than the vehicle is moving. Typical curves of braking force coefficient versus wheel axle velocity and slip intensity.

 

 

Also if a Formula One driver locks up his brakes he misses the apex of the corner therefore taking longer to do a lap time. No ABS on F1 cars.

[IanJD]

8 hours ago, BillyJim said:

Perhaps I'm just being nit-picking here but it's a common fallacy and is actually false. ABS (Anti-Blockier System) enables steering to be maintained by allowing the steered wheels to rotate when otherwise they would lock up (skid). Non-rotating wheels will always travel in a straight line no matter which way they're pointing. Maximum braking efficiency is actually obtained with all the wheels fully locked up as it offers the highest constant friction between the tyre and road surface. ABS was developed because in emergency panic braking many/most driver's don't think to take their foot off the brake, thus regain steering to avoid an obstruction or steer around the bend they approached too fast, and inevitably skid straight and headlong into a collision or off the road - then claim the steering didn't work.

Your nit-picking missed that I didn't specify *when* this is true, one example is in the case of snow when a skilled driver with ABS turned off will stop quicker. You're also wrong about maximum braking being with wheels locked (as somebody else pointed out), braking distance is minimised with a given amount of slip between wheels and road. But you're correct that ABS will stop more quickly and with the car more under control for almost all drivers under almost all circumstances, especially when compined with brake assist which applies the brakes more heavily to make up for the fact that even in an emergency many drivers don't brake hard enough.

[Bud]

On 17/03/2020 at 22:34, facet edge said:

I think ACC is good in some areas. Slow moving traffic, average speed camera roadworks and queues.

What does irritate me is the tendency to leave slowing down much later than I would usually do. When I drive I will ease off the accelerator is I can see obstructions in the distance. ACC will only look at the car in front, in my opinion that is not far enough.

Don't get me wrong it's an amazing but it's still not as good as you and me.

Or the next bloke eh!

 

If we are all that good why do brakes lights rush back towards as when we hurtle down the motorway with a gap far too small?