Superbly Disappointed Part 1

[NJRJ]

2 minutes ago, Bud said:

Or the next bloke eh!

 

If we are all that good why do brakes lights rush back towards as when we hurtle down the motorway with a gap far too small?

 

Brake ripple pulse I call it and is a sight to behold on a curved descent when you can see almost every car light up.

I reckon most drivers THINK they are better than the car systems....

Road deaths knocking on the 2000 mark, with serious injuries hovering near 130,000 it's clear that driving standards are woeful.

[cmp1951]

10 minutes ago, NJRJ said:

 

Brake ripple pulse I call it and is a sight to behold on a curved descent when you can see almost every car light up.

I reckon most drivers THINK they are better than the car systems....

Road deaths knocking on the 2000 mark, with serious injuries hovering near 130,000 it's clear that driving standards are woeful.

I like to see the fantastic light effects! gives time to ease off the throttle and glide towards the muppets driving too close for the speed

 

On the subject of ksi you need to look at the stats to get some perspective - e.g. during the 1950s to 1990 there were around 5 to 8 thousand killed each year whereas we are now around 1900. There were far fewer vehicles on the road back then.  What does surprise me though is given the appalling level of most drivers' abilities behind the wheel that it is "only" around 1800. I dread to think what it would be if vehicle construction was the same now as it was then and seat belts had not been introduced and made mandatory.

 

And on the subject of seat belts and deaths it was reported in 2018 that in 2017 over 1 in 4 of the dead had not been wearing the seat belt. This is a statistic that really needs to be pressed home by the authorities, perhaps by stating explicitly in inquest reports whether or not the belt had been worn  what would have been the probable outcame if it had.  I have to wear my cos I'd go deaf from the alarm that oes off if I dont🙉

[shyVRS245]

5 minutes ago, cmp1951 said:

I like to see the fantastic light effects! gives time to ease off the throttle and glide towards the muppets driving too close for the speed

 

On the subject of ksi you need to look at the stats to get some perspective - e.g. during the 1950s to 1990 there were around 5 to 8 thousand killed each year whereas we are now around 1900. There were far fewer vehicles on the road back then.  What does surprise me though is given the appalling level of most drivers' abilities behind the wheel that it is "only" around 1800. I dread to think what it would be if vehicle construction was the same now as it was then and seat belts had not been introduced and made mandatory.

 

And on the subject of seat belts and deaths it was reported in 2018 that in 2017 over 1 in 4 of the dead had not been wearing the seat belt. This is a statistic that really needs to be pressed home by the authorities, perhaps by stating explicitly in inquest reports whether or not the belt had been worn  what would have been the probable outcame if it had.  I have to wear my cos I'd go deaf from the alarm that oes off if I dont🙉

Passed my driving test (1st time) in February 1983 in the snow no less without ABS brakes fitted to the Vauxhall Chevette and seat belt wearing was introduced that year by law. Any moron that gets into a car in 2020 and is too lazy to put on a belt really shouldn't have a driving licence (perhaps they don't have a licence or insurance or road tax or M.O.T.).

[NJRJ]

The improvement in deaths is down to better cars, as well as seat belt and drink drive rules, all together these improved the figures for most road users, and more modern 'scoop you onto the bonnet' car noses are helping pedestrians. Seat belts not being used is laziness I'm sure, it can't be that motorists think an air bag is a substitute? - SRS that used to be on all of them stood for Supplementary Restraint System - I'd not trust the pyrotechnic to fire in every circumstance - hell if you have the seat too close to the airbag you really need a seat belt on to protect you from the bag!

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, NJRJ said:

 

Brake ripple pulse I call it and is a sight to behold on a curved descent when you can see almost every car light up.

I reckon most drivers THINK they are better than the car systems....

Road deaths knocking on the 2000 mark, with serious injuries hovering near 130,000 it's clear that driving standards are woeful.

It's a variation on a standing wave effect, and is normally caused by drivers (or ACC) braking later and harder than the actually good drivers who saw the wave from a ways back. (I can drive for miles without braking by lifting off when I see brake lights 3 or 4 cars ahead of me)

[Ootohere]

One safety feature fail was obvious a few years back when introduced and still now, and with the like of Fiat 500's that had the 'Hazards' coming on when emergency braking was done.  Or not emergency braking just touching the brakes a bit hard while trying to reduce speed.

With Fiat 500's & Punto's it could happen too easily. 

 

So 5 or 6 lanes of traffic leaving Glasgow to go North or East and someone in a 500 gets cut up in the 50 mph limit where near everyone is at 70 mph and lane hoping and watching for brake lights and in the middle of it all a Fiat 500's brake lights come on and hazard lights.

There were other cars similar, and that included Fabia's and the driver might not even know the car had that system.

 

Systems need to work, and people need to know if they have them, automated braking included, and is it at slow speeds only, or at higher speeds.

If a system is smart then it should be working or inhibited by the ambient temp or more important the road temperature, which are not the same thing.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/479187-volvo-recall-emergency-braking-fault

 

 

[cmp1951]

12 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

It's a variation on a standing wave effect, and is normally caused by drivers (or ACC) braking later and harder than the actually good drivers who saw the wave from a ways back. (I can drive for miles without braking by lifting off when I see brake lights 3 or 4 cars ahead of me)

Too true. Why do the muppets have to use the brakes so often when with better anticipation dackering off the throttle would do the job with less wear on the brakes etc.  On ACC if not over-ridden the brakes do seem to get used more, but I try to knock it off rather let it get so close that heavier braking is required.

 

As to distance, I use the max programmable usually gives me my 2 second gap but then eejits pull into the gap! Oh and invarably slow down to less speed than I'm doing; really pees me off!

 

Last car I had - Superb II Elegance - went 103,666 miles on pads and discs so I think i'm doing OK on the anticipation front!

[BriskodaJeff]

One feature of ACC that I really like is the toggle on top of the stalk that allows you to vary the gap to the car in front. It can be adjusted as you drive and I regularly use it to increase the gap approaching slowing traffic (smart motorway speed changes as well as general jams etc). Entirely agree it is an aid only - I'm still in charge and I'm still responsible for the consequences of my actions.

 

As for compulsory seatbelts, I remember my dad being furious at the nanny state forcing terrible inconvenience on drivers and how it would be their fault when he burned to death trapped in the car by a seatbelt that wouldn't release etc. Different times...

[shyVRS245]

12 minutes ago, BriskodaJeff said:

One feature of ACC that I really like is the toggle on top of the stalk that allows you to vary the gap to the car in front. It can be adjusted as you drive and I regularly use it to increase the gap approaching slowing traffic (smart motorway speed changes as well as general jams etc). Entirely agree it is an aid only - I'm still in charge and I'm still responsible for the consequences of my actions.

 

As for compulsory seatbelts, I remember my dad being furious at the nanny state forcing terrible inconvenience on drivers and how it would be their fault when he burned to death trapped in the car by a seatbelt that wouldn't release etc. Different times...

Remember my brother driving his company Ford Sierra on a country road when a Mk2 Ford Escort came round a corner too fast on his side of the road. He swerved to avoid a head on smash and the Escort hit the B pillar so hard it sliced the Sierra into 2 pieces. The front of his car ended in a hedge and the back of the Sierra went up in flames setting fire to the hedge. The 2 young lads in the Escort both suffered two broken legs each as the engine/dashboard entered the cabin and trapped their legs. Brother very lucky suffered minor cuts and bruises.

[facet edge]

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

It's a variation on a standing wave effect, and is normally caused by drivers (or ACC) braking later and harder than the actually good drivers who saw the wave from a ways back. (I can drive for miles without braking by lifting off when I see brake lights 3 or 4 cars ahead of me)

This is precisely my point. And if someone files the space in front of you, drop back. The perceived loss of distance is negligible over a journey.

[Sagalout]

The real irony in such discussions is that many specialists in the traffic flow management business will tell you that systems like ACC and eventually self driving vehicles are the way forward for traffic flow management. However, of course, the measureable improvements won't be apparent until sufficient vehicles are so equipped and actually can only be in auto mode where required. An area of our lives where a machine will eventually be able to prove it is better at this sort of thing than the absolutely perfect human driver that we each are. Whether we agree or not !!

 

The generation of dynamic flow waves in traffic is complex to say the least. It can start simply by one vehicle changing lanes for example or even your careful braking or slowing down in advance of the wave coming towards you could be starting a wave behind you. Fact is that we are just not consistent enough or have sufficient forward information to get it right enough of the time. Once ACC is linked to satnav/google traffic data and all drivers use the ACC the issue will become almost non existent where ACC is designed to function (motorways etc).

 

However, given the nature of human independence and fear of loss of individual control it is likely going to be a long , long way down the road in coming. 

 

In the meantime perhaps best not to put the blame on and criticise all those other drivers because every one of us on the road is contributing to the next wave that swamps us. 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19S3OdK6710

 

Edited 19 March, 2020 by Sagalout

[KeteCantek]

On 18/03/2020 at 17:48, IanJD said:

Same principle as "ABS can't always brake as fast as an experienced driver using cadence braking" -- which is true, but such drivers are outnumbered 100:1 by less skilled and experienced drivers for whom ABS is literally a life-saver. As a self-identified fantastic driver you'd like to purchase a vehicle without such intrusive add-ons which interfere with your enjoyment of the vehicle.

 

But manufacturers won't make a vehicle ("R" for Risky?) just for a tiny minority of superb drivers like you, they insist on adding on all these pesky safety features to save the lives of the majority of idiots, and they don't want it to be possible to turn these features off because if they do more people/idiots will turn them off and die as a result -- and they're fitted as standard not made optional (at extra cost) because penny-pinching idiots won't order them. If safety features can be turned off temporarily for exceptional cases (like ABS) they're turned back on automatically the next time the car is started. These are the general principles of how car safety is improved.

 

So the obvious consequence is that some idiots will die so you can not be irritated by what you see as superfluous safety features. Is that your position?

Actually there are reasons these systems are fitted to more and more cars. One is marginal costs. AEB is mandated and the radar hardware is there already although I understand ACC will have to use more expensive long range radar. 

 

Crash ratings are also influenced by these safety systems in some markets. Easier to make them standard across. 

[IJWS15]

On 19/03/2020 at 22:39, Sagalout said:

The real irony in such discussions is that many specialists in the traffic flow management business will tell you that systems like ACC and eventually self driving vehicles are the way forward for traffic flow management. However, of course, the measureable improvements won't be apparent until sufficient vehicles are so equipped and actually can only be in auto mode where required. An area of our lives where a machine will eventually be able to prove it is better at this sort of thing than the absolutely perfect human driver that we each are. Whether we agree or not !!

 

The generation of dynamic flow waves in traffic is complex to say the least. It can start simply by one vehicle changing lanes for example or even your careful braking or slowing down in advance of the wave coming towards you could be starting a wave behind you. Fact is that we are just not consistent enough or have sufficient forward information to get it right enough of the time. Once ACC is linked to satnav/google traffic data and all drivers use the ACC the issue will become almost non existent where ACC is designed to function (motorways etc).

 

However, given the nature of human independence and fear of loss of individual control it is likely going to be a long , long way down the road in coming. 

 

In the meantime perhaps best not to put the blame on and criticise all those other drivers because every one of us on the road is contributing to the next wave that swamps us. 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19S3OdK6710

 

Have a play with https://www.traffic-simulation.de/

 

Try changin nothing but the "politeness"

[drewellis]

On 17/03/2020 at 17:22, evilC said:

Thank you for the sane and reasoned reply that I appreciate.  When we bought the Superb I had to rely on the Brochure to tell me all the features that were included and I had hoped that those I didn't want or need I could turn off at the flick of a switch like abs and ETC.  I find scolling through menus to adjust the 'inputs/features' highly distracting and therefore dangerous on the move.

I have used simple CC for a long time and I suppose I have added my own 'adaptive features' to my normal use, but crucially my own features are much more sophisticated than any ecu, taking into account many more elements than the vehicle can register, its a case of the best ecu in any vehicle being the one between the driver's ears!

It has been said on here that I should read and understand the owner's manual before driving.  In the first instance, when I collected the car the salesman gave a brief induction before I drove the 120 miles home.  He warned me that the OM contained instructions on many more features that related to higher specifications, so which ones do I have - it will be a process of elimination I fear?  Having read the OM more than once,, all I can say is that is pathetically short of information, a quick comparison with our Octavia manual shows how devoid it is and yet it purports to cover many more features

BTW what is VCDS?

The point is I don't want ACC or its features or I want to tailor it to suit my driving style.  I was not aware that the headlights and the ACC are adjusted to the GPS positioning, that is not something that is advertised.

The take a break warning occurred when I was neither tired or had carried out an improper manoeuvre.  I would welcome the opportunity to demonstrate my driving skills so that you could assess whether I am a 'crap driver'.  I assume you are in someway qualified to make that assessment?  As an aside, I have over the years taken refresher/advanced driving courses to ensure that I maintain a good level of competence, with one for example, being with an ex-Class 1 Police Driving Instructor.

The question of how smart the coding is is subjective and depends on who is reviewing it, what may seem smart to some can be mundane to others.

I have various cars that may be considered basic but I am a soul buddy to Peter Wheeler, the former owner of TVR, who produced exiting and potent motor cars (his Speed 12 was considered too fast for international sports car racing and had to be detuned to compete!) , without any geeky bits including abs or ETC, which he considered where unnecessary and detracted from the motoring enjoyment. 

You use the reference to Dacia Sundaro as an insult, but it was not so long ago that Skoda were producing similar cars powered by Renault family engines which also received derision, never mind that they won their class on the RAC Rally 13 years in a row!  I seem to recall that the Dacia Sundaro is currently highly regarded with various international awards.             

 

If you love old TVRs and other more mechanically-involving cars (don't blame you) then why did you buy a large new expensive car full of electrics and safety systems?

 

I am glad the Dacia Sandero has won awards because it's a great car - hence my earlier suggestion - its perfect if you want a new car without all these "annoying" features