LED Indicator Hyperflash

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

I've swapped over the indicators on my Honda HR-V to Osram LED.  Unfortunately, although I'm not getting 'Bulb Out 'warnings on the dash,  they are hyperflashing. 

 

I don't actually mind the hyperflashing, and with the rapid clicking you definitely wouldn't forget to switch them off. Also,  unlike the factory setup, the LED's don't get 'lost' against the DRL's.

 

However; 

 

If left in its current state,  is this an MoT failure? 

 

Can hyperflashing cause damage to my vehicle? 

 

Many thanks.,

 

FALS

 

 

[NJRJ]

I think MOT flash rate is 60-120 a minute.

You might get pulled and have to have a little chat, whilst they check your insurance and that all mods are declared.

Might also give any epilepsy sufferers trouble, depending on the flash rate.

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

I think they fall within that rate. 

 

Car is insured and MoT'd. I keep a copy of all documents in the car for such eventualities.  My HR-V is better specced as standard than my Octy Scout was.  The only optional extra I have fitted is the dog guard, which I'm more than happy for them to check.  I'm sure it will make Hadley feel a lot safer. 

 

Before purchasing the bulbs I contacted my insurer Zurich via CSIS to see if they helad any issues with replacing the indicator,  DRL and fog lamp bulbs with LED, and their stance was as long as it didn't affect performance they were fine with it. 

 

Obviously the police and MoT could be a different matter. 

 

My wife is epileptic and she has been fine with them  She actually prefers the replacement LED's to the standard fit.

 

Edited 8 May, 2020 by FirstAndLastSkoda
FFS

[PetrolDave]

If they are flashing faster than 120 times per minute then you'll need to fit parallel resistors to return the flash rate to legal.

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

8 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

If they are flashing faster than 120 times per minute then you'll need to fit parallel resistors to return the flash rate to legal.

I'll have a Google at that later. 

 

The ones that are hyperflashing are non canbus. I've ordered another set which state they are canbus,  so will see if that makes a difference. 

 

I would prefer to retain the LED's as they are more noticeable than the stock items. Due to them being fitted directly above the DRL's,  which don't dim when the indicators are on, they can be difficult to makeout when they matter most. 

 

Many thanks for your response. 

 

FALS

 

 

[PetrolDave]

15 hours ago, FirstAndLastSkoda said:

 I've ordered another set which state they are canbus,  so will see if that makes a difference.

Good luck with that - since the bulbs are nowhere near the CAN bus that moniker is often little more than just a marketing ploy.

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

2 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

Good luck with that - since the bulbs are nowhere near the CAN bus that moniker is often little more than just a marketing ploy.

You're probably right  but hey,  it worked on me! 

 

I've looked online at parallel resistors, and I think I'll give it a pass.

 

I was more concerned about whether fitting them would damage the wiring and so on.   Since noone has mentioned it doing this, I'll leave as is.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen CivPol around here make a manoeuvre without indicating first,  so it would be a little ironic if they pulled me over for having ones that flash slightly too fast. 

 

Many thanks for your responses.

 

FALS

[silver1011]

Good quality CANBUS-friendly LED bulbs have built in load resistors that mimic the resistance needed for the vehicle to think they're regular incandescent bulbs.

 

The likes of Philips and Osram produce good LED bulbs which should solve your issue, it's the cheaper products where most tend to experience issues.

 

Good quality LED bulbs aren't cheap, so if you're only paying a few pounds off eBay or Aliexpress etc. then the 'buy cheap buy twice' moto will likely be worth remembering.

 

The fast-flash is designed to warn you and those around you that there is a problem with your indicators. Even if you know they are working then I wouldn't be happy in the knowledge that everyone around me thinking I was knowingly driving round in a vehicle with defective lights.

 

The other risk is that if you do then have a genuine failure, you won't know either.

 

It should also be worth noting that aftermarket LED bulbs are not E-marked, so aren't legal for road use in the UK. Unlikely ever to be an issue though.

 

Eurocarparts probably won't be the cheapest but around £20 per pair is where you're likely to be for good quality bulbs...

 

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

Will have a proper look when on my laptop.

 

Thanks for the response. 

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

It's Osram LED's I've fitted, they still hyperflash, as do the Twenty20 branded canbus items.

 

I'm in two minds as to whether to keep them in or revert back to the OE halogen.  The LED's are definately an improvement producing both a brighter and 'cleaner' light if that makes any sense.  One thing I have noticed is during the day the rear indicator LED's are more noticeable as you approach from the side compared to the halogen version, no idea why, they just do.

 

At least the replacement LED DRL's are a less contentious issue!

 

Many thanks,

 

FALS

 

 

[chimaera]

Rather than looking for bulbs with the "CANBUS friendly" marketing w*nk, check that the bulbs you've bought have a load resistor on them: it's likely to be buried away in the literature somewhere. Bulb systems are calibrated on the assumption that the bulb has a certain resistance, therefore drawing a certain load from the battery which the system can monitor for. LEDs inherently have a much lower load (they can produce a lot more light for a given amount of input power) so in a system not calibrated for them they'll cause errors, either bulb out warnings or the hyperflash you're seeing on your indicators. Drop in LED replacements for filament bulbs need a load resistor added to mimic the load of the filament bulb; annoyingly some marketing muppet in the past associated this with CANBUS thus the term has stuck with no technical reason for it*. So, make sure the LEDs you're putting in are designed to be filament drop-in replacements.

 

Out of curiosity actually, have you put these on both front and rear, or just the front? It occurs to me that if it was filament rear and LED front on each side that if there was a small difference in resistance that it might throw out the bulb monitoring system just enough to cause problems like this. It might be worth trying to put the two LEDs on the same side of the car (front/rear) to see if it changes things.

 

* Pre CANBUS cars with bulb out warning systems (yes they exist) will behave the same way with LEDs that don't have a load resistor.

[J.R.]

Well said!

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

Thanks for the info, Chimaera.

 

I've replaced all four indicators with LED.  Much to my neighbours amusement, I spent a fair while trying all the combinations I could think of, however, the hyperflashing remains.  It's not even just a case of 'I want', the LED's are such a significant improvement that even my wife noticed, and normally she could not care less about such things.  The increased flash rate (I reckon it is around 3 per second) does not bother me, nor does the fast tick from the dash - there's no way you would forget you had inadvertently left them on. 

 

What baffles me is Honda have fitted LED's to the brake, number plate lights and all the interior lights, except the boot and vanity mirrors, and then thought, "That'll do!".

 

Ah well, 1st World problems.......

[Breezy_Pete]

If you really can't bear not to have these LED indicators then why not just swap them back to incandescent bulbs for an hour each year to get it through MOT?

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

2 hours ago, Wino said:

If you really can't bear not to have these LED indicators then why not just swap them back to incandescent bulbs for an hour each year to get it through MOT?

 

That's my intended course of action, with the caveat that if I got pulled because of them or they proved to be excessively bright at night and were either blinding or a distraction to other drivers, then they'd get removed.

 

Many thanks for all input,

 

FALS

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

Hopefully the final update on this.

 

Something I did not take into account was the hyperflashing affecting the duration of the one touch 3 second indicator flash whilst changing lanes was over and done with in less than a second. I use that feature a lot.

 

They're getting hoyed tomorrow and I'll exchange them for a spare bulb kit and a few odds'n'sods.

 

Every day is a school day....

[Tilt]

How about get some led ones that work properly?

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

On 16/05/2020 at 09:40, Tilt said:

How about get some led ones that work properly?

If only I had thought of that at the beginning!

 

I thought I had by fitting the Osram LED's, and when they didn't work trying the Twenty20 canbus specific version.

 

After driving around today (on essential journeys, obviously) I'm a lot more comfortable driving around with the halogen indicator bulbs, especially with the 'Convenience'setting now operating as it should

 

I would be more disappointed if I had to remove the DRL LED's.

 

Anyway, thanks all.

[silver1011]

On 07/05/2020 at 22:57, FirstAndLastSkoda said:

I've swapped over the indicators on my Honda HR-V to Osram LED.  Unfortunately, although I'm not getting 'Bulb Out 'warnings on the dash,  they are hyperflashing.

 

Surprisingly both Osram's P21W LEDriving SL and Premium SL bulbs are not CANBUS-friendly.

 

They recommend installing the relatively primitive bypass resistors, which understandably would put a lot of people off...