272 Superb OPF stageIII

[Bigeater]

According to their description, that vibrant resonator is 5 inch deep. Considering the standard resonator has a concave in it to fit under the prop shaft, I think you're onto a loser Roscio - but I admire your ambition and determination to find a solution. 👍

[Roscio]

6 hours ago, Bigeater said:

According to their description, that vibrant resonator is 5 inch deep. Considering the standard resonator has a concave in it to fit under the prop shaft, I think you're onto a loser Roscio - but I admire your ambition and determination to find a solution. 👍

 

True, there is barely space for the Vibrant 5 inch deep muffler. This is the stock one:

 

[Roscio]

At the beginning i thought that this project would be fine with a catted downpipe and OEM cat back.
Then i got that central resonator is very restrictive. It retains heat, that is not good for turbo, and apart from this it causes high backpressure. So the way to go would be a resonator delete, but you probably already know that for me it's no go.
So the aftermarket resonator i found (a muffler to be precise) is bigger than stock resonator, like someone already found out, and at this point the only way to go would be create a complete custom cat back to fit in everything in the right place. So I did.
In this configuration now I have 3'' Milltek catted downpipe, 5x9x15'' vibrant performance muffler used as resonator (with 3'' straight through pipe) and 2,5'' pipes to OEM back mufflers.
Now backpressure and heat problems are solved, and I feel the car maybe something faster. But maybe it's only my impression, so I will dyno the car again and see.
As for the sound and noise I am not disappointed at all: the sound is slightly better than before, and it’s definitely not noisy.
Inside it sounds the same as with OEM resonator, cruising at low revs you can barely hear the engine. Outside I can hear the difference. Not big difference, but you can clearly hear there's something different under the hood.
I have to thank Aaron from Vibrant Performance who has had the patience to explain and show me the best product for my needs. Just to know, the muffler I installed is part #1127 “Streetpower Oval Muffler”.

 

This was the stock catback:

 

This is the custom catback installed:

 

 

Here is the Vibrant Performance #1127 that barely fitted in

 

Complete exhaust

[KeteCantek]

Looks nicely done. Fab.

[shyVRS245]

Can't believe it took me 2 days to see this post, great info as usual for others to follow.

[newbie69]

Loving your determination on this Roscio, pave the way for the rest of us noise-sensitive family men!   Just for me to get this clear, what you did was to remove the mid-resonator from the piping, and weld back a Vibrant muffler in its place?

So in total you have a completely upgraded first half from Milltek with an upgraded downpipe and complete GPF delete (I assume that's the SSXVW513  model?), and then you join it to the Vibrant muffler (those are both 3" ?) and after that it's all stock still?

[Roscio]

43 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Just for me to get this clear, what you did was to remove the mid-resonator from the piping, and weld back a Vibrant muffler in its place?

So in total you have a completely upgraded first half from Milltek with an upgraded downpipe and complete GPF delete (I assume that's the SSXVW513  model?), and then you join it to the Vibrant muffler (those are both 3" ?) and after that it's all stock still?

 

Not exactly. The existing line had to be adapted to the new muffler i bought due to its dimensions. So I thought it would be better to change te entire 2.5'' OEM pipes with new 3'' for better flow.

The Milltek downpipe i bought, the SSXVW513, has been modified because it interfered with the transmission shaft. And beyond that, this one reduces at the end from 3 '' to 2.5 '' to connect to OEM catback, so I cut it before restriction to have a full 3'' exhaust.
After the central silencer, the 3'' pipe splits in two new 2.5'' up to the OEM rear mufflers.

 

Final configuration is:

- Milltek SSXV513 (modified), with HJS 200 cell cat

- GPF delete

- Vibrant Performance #1127 central muffler (it has 3'' inlet and outlet)

- upgraded 2,5'' to 3'' pipes

- stock rear mufflers

 

43 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

pave the way for the rest of us noise-sensitive family men!

 

On this aspect I can assure you that it is really quiet, it sounds completely stock (until you push accelerator hard).

My wife said it's quieter than before. I don't think so, it sounds deeper. But it doesn't attract attention, and this is the important thing!

Edited 14 June, 2020 by Roscio

[newbie69]

2 hours ago, Roscio said:

 

Not exactly. The existing line had to be adapted to the new muffler i bought due to its dimensions. So I thought it would be better to change te entire 2.5'' OEM pipes with new 3'' for better flow.

The Milltek downpipe i bought, the SSXVW513, has been modified because it interfered with the transmission shaft. And beyond that, this one reduces at the end from 3 '' to 2.5 '' to connect to OEM catback, so I cut it before restriction to have a full 3'' exhaust.
After the central silencer, the 3'' pipe splits in two new 2.5'' up to the OEM rear mufflers.

 

Final configuration is:

- Milltek SSXV513 (modified), with HJS 200 cell cat

- GPF delete

- Vibrant Performance #1127 central muffler (it has 3'' inlet and outlet)

- upgraded 2,5'' to 3'' pipes

- stock rear mufflers

The Milltek downpipe comes in two options either for pairing with the OEM cat-back (2.5") or the Milltek cat-back (3"), if you knew the resonator's  limitation in advance you would have gone for the second option that keeps a 3" diameter all along the pipe and spare yourself from some modding but you were hoping to keep the OEM res so it's understandable.

For the "muffler-back" bit, you decided to enlarge the OEM pipes from 2.5 to 3 instead of fitting a 3 to 2.5 reducer on the outlet of the Vibrant correct? At that point and after all those steps I guess it makes sense, you don't want to come across any other obstacles in the flow...

I like how you have kept both OEM mufflers though, that's probably why the noise has been kept at reasonable levels, very nice that you have achieved that despite having upgraded the entire exhaust system to a much better flowing one. Proves once again that mufflers are not a limiting factor even for such more powerful setups 

[Roscio]

6 hours ago, newbie69 said:

The Milltek downpipe comes in two options either for pairing with the OEM cat-back (2.5") or the Milltek cat-back (3"), if you knew the resonator's  limitation in advance you would have gone for the second option that keeps a 3" diameter all along the pipe and spare yourself from some modding but you were hoping to keep the OEM res so it's understandable.

For the "muffler-back" bit, you decided to enlarge the OEM pipes from 2.5 to 3 instead of fitting a 3 to 2.5 reducer on the outlet of the Vibrant correct? At that point and after all those steps I guess it makes sense, you don't want to come across any other obstacles in the flow...

 

You hit the spot!

 

For everyone who's curious about the sound, i've recorded a short clip (this video was taken on a closed road):

 

1) start in D, normal mode

2) start in S, full throttle, normal mode

3) start in S, full throttle, sport mode

Edited 14 June, 2020 by Roscio

[shyVRS245]

3 minutes ago, Roscio said:

 

You hit the spot!

 

For everyone who's curious about the sound, i've recorded a short clip (this video was taken on a closed road):

 

 

Sounds as quiet as my standard 272.

[Roscio]

1 minute ago, shyVRS245 said:

Sounds as quiet as my standard 272.

 

this is exactly what I was hoping to hear 

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, Roscio said:

 

this is exactly what I was hoping to hear 

We need Ninja boot badges as we are the Automotive equivalent of silent road warriors.

[Roscio]

14 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

We need Ninja boot badges as we are the Automotive equivalent of silent road warriors.

Ok, don't overdo it now 😂...

Let's just say that we don't like unnecessary attention 

[newbie69]

I have to say it doesn't sound any different than stock, more important: it doesn't sound modified at all even when in full blast and I mean both in a good way, it completely retains the OEM tone, excellent job.

In reality, i could leave with a slightly more throaty note   but if you start going down that way you risk of going too far and having to put back the stock items. Definitely for anyone looking to retain the stock sound on a 500bhp setup yours is the way to go.

The other important question is, no drone or boomy sounds when at a steady speed and low revs right? In fact I have found this "effect" of some aftermarket exhausts, more annyoing than a loud noise during full throttle

 

Edited 14 June, 2020 by newbie69

[Roscio]

No drone at all, I was very worried about it. 

There are two differences from the OEM sound that are difficult to hear through video:
1) at about 4000 rpm the downpipe resonates if accelerating gently (and this is a uncommon situation, so no problem)

2) turbo whistle is more present with new central resonator

 

21 hours ago, newbie69 said:

In reality, i could leave with a slightly more throaty note 

Yeah, I agree. I prefer to have exceeded in silence rather than in noise...but in the end I'm happy with the result!

At least now you know that for going stage 2 or more you don't have to have a noisy car 😎

[Roscio]

thought of the day: seeing a motorcyclist who after pushing hard on a straight road looks in the mirror twice because he can't believe you're still there is priceless.

[Redboy]

41 minutes ago, Roscio said:

thought of the day: seeing a motorcyclist who after pushing hard on a straight road looks in the mirror twice because he can't believe you're still there is priceless.

If that's a 1000cc sportsbike then you were probably well over 250kmh

[Roscio]

7 hours ago, Redboy said:

If that's a 1000cc sportsbike then you were probably well over 250kmh

if that was a 1000cc sportsbike then my car would probably be a 8-900 hp sleeper!

jokes aside, it wasn't a sportsbike. I was entering the highway behind this guy riding a naked bike, he started pushing hard and so did I too. 2-3-4 gear from 30 to 160-170 kmh. Just few seconds of fun, then back to speed limit. Here in italy there is the "tutor" system that automatically calculates the average speed of each single car. To drive at 250 kmh you need a trip on the german autobahn

[Redboy]

2 hours ago, Roscio said:

if that was a 1000cc sportsbike then my car would probably be a 8-900 hp sleeper!

jokes aside, it wasn't a sportsbike. I was entering the highway behind this guy riding a naked bike, he started pushing hard and so did I too. 2-3-4 gear from 30 to 160-170 kmh. Just few seconds of fun, then back to speed limit. Here in italy there is the "tutor" system that automatically calculates the average speed of each single car. To drive at 250 kmh you need a trip on the german autobahn

I think bikes have the edge on most cars to a certain speed. However that’s just in a straight line.  The Tutor system sounds very big brother, is it satellite tracking or cameras?  

[KeteCantek]

26 minutes ago, Redboy said:

I think bikes have the edge on most cars to a certain speed. However that’s just in a straight line.  The Tutor system sounds very big brother, is it satellite tracking or cameras?  

Quite common in the UK too. Average speed cameras here with numberplate recognition. 

 

 

[Roscio]

4 hours ago, Redboy said:

The Tutor system sounds very big brother, is it satellite tracking or cameras?

 

There are cameras that record the license plate number and time you pass through every 5-10 km, calculating the average speed

 

[shyVRS245]

2 minutes ago, Roscio said:

 

There are cameras that record the license plate number and time you pass through every 5-10 km, calculating the average speed

 

Sounds like the M25 and its variable 40/50/60 mph limits.

[Roscio]

Time for some dragy numbers, I had the opportunity to do some tests. Long story short:

 

0-100 4,39 sec
100-200 9,13 sec
200-250 11,98 sec
¼ mile 12,34 sec @ 183,43 km/h
½ mile 19,59 sec @ 220,92 km/h
1 mile 31,53 sec @ 257,20 km/h

 

I’m not happy at all with these results, I expected high 3s on 0-100 and middle/high 8s on 100-200. But numbers don't lie.

 

Asked my tuner, he says that i could get better times if manually upshifting at 7200 rpm, because in S it upshifts at about 6900 rpm. BUT with this dsg there is no possibility to have auto upshift working in manual mode, for now. I’m not a professional driver and i’m not able to upshift manually at exact moment without hitting rpm limiter.

 

Maybe soon or later i'll get how to manually upshift at the exact moment, and maybe will get better numbers, but for now let's say that i'm fine with this.

After all I feel the car powerful and gets me a smile every time i drive it...

 

[newbie69]

16 hours ago, Roscio said:

I’m not happy at all with these results, I expected high 3s on 0-100 and middle/high 8s on 100-200. But numbers don't lie.

I would be on the same boat if I were you. Your 0-100 and 1/4" mile times show that the launch is not the best. It doesn't make sense for me to be hitting 0-100 in 4.1" and 1/4" mile in 12.2" with just 390bhp. How does the car feel when launching? Is it a smooth process or? At which RPM is the Launch Control set at? 

I had said the best and most noticeable improvement on mine after the REVO + TVS combo was the gearbox behaviour, including launching. The DQ381 is a trickier gearbox than the DQ250 6-speed, that needs really good software to show its potential, otherwise especially with raised power it suffers from weird hiccups.

Can you upload a 0-100 log too? It would be clear then to see which part of the launch you have issues with.

The other reason is maybe the slightly later spool of the TTE535. On the 100-200 run with the launch out of the way of-course the situation improves and the car starts to show its real power, but still, with 480+ bhp peak I'd expect to see 8's I think. Would be interesting to weigh your car and know where you're at. You've already ditched the heavy stock wheels so you should be close to the 1625kg value I measured on mine with ligthweight 19's.  Maybe your tuner has gone for a milder approach that peaks later? Could it be related to the fueling worries on the 272?

 

16 hours ago, Roscio said:

 

Asked my tuner, he says that i could get better times if manually upshifting at 7200 rpm, because in S it upshifts at about 6900 rpm. BUT with this dsg there is no possibility to have auto upshift working in manual mode, for now. I’m not a professional driver and i’m not able to upshift manually at exact moment without hitting rpm limiter.

I didn't get this: Does he mean that when you use Manual mode the auto up-shift has to be disabled and you can hit the limiter? If so, that's not the case with my TVS map: A few times when I wanted to manually change as late as possible it just auto up-shifted to the next gear after 7000 or so.


 

[Roscio]

5 hours ago, newbie69 said:

How does the car feel when launching? Is it a smooth process or? At which RPM is the Launch Control set at? 

 

Were i launched the road was not very clean, and even if ESP was set in sport mode the electronics must have significantly limited the power. Probably the tires have slipped for first meters. In fact, with stage1 I could feel the tires "digging" the road to find grip, now when launching i think there is too much wheel slip because i don’t feel that “brutal” acceleration from standstill.

Launch control is set at about 4.500 rpm, but there’s another option at 3.000 rpm pushing only half the gas pedal (that i didn’t use).

 

5 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Can you upload a 0-100 log too? It would be clear then to see which part of the launch you have issues with.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, newbie69 said:

The other reason is maybe the slightly later spool of the TTE535. On the 100-200 run with the launch out of the way of-course the situation improves and the car starts to show its real power, but still, with 480+ bhp peak I'd expect to see 8's I think. Would be interesting to weigh your car and know where you're at. You've already ditched the heavy stock wheels so you should be close to the 1625kg value I measured on mine with ligthweight 19's.  Maybe your tuner has gone for a milder approach that peaks later? Could it be related to the fueling worries on the 272?

 

I think this has nothing to do with later spool of the TTE535, it could be the fuel i used too: I always refueled with 100 octane gasoline (that should be 98 actually), but this time it could be a worse fuel too.

Thinking about it now it would have been better to do a test with a 3000 rpm launch.

Fuel injection is a problem because it's working 100% when pushed to the limits, but the problem is only about a possible injector failure, don't think this would cause a remarkable power loss on high rpm.

 

 

5 hours ago, newbie69 said:

I didn't get this: Does he mean that when you use Manual mode the auto up-shift has to be disabled and you can hit the limiter? If so, that's not the case with my TVS map: A few times when I wanted to manually change as late as possible it just auto up-shifted to the next gear after 7000 or so.

 

My DSG, if used in manual mode doesn't upshift automatically. But this is an unwanted feature, and he has not been able to resolve this problem. My tuner is also APR dealer, and he confronted with APR engineers: the DSG is mapped correctly so that it should auto upshift, but there must be something that doesn't "allow" auto upshift and it should be the ECU that has been completely remapped. Hitting the limiter in M mode is something that i will avoid, so if pushing hard I have to settle for S mode.