Ok, in that video it is clear something is not right in that run (or is every launch like this?)  You can see the rpm hit 7000+ and instead of up-shifting to second gear, bounce back to ~6200, then up-shift at something like 6800. This is very similar to what I was getting when I had stock DSG and the JB4 on but it got resolved after the TVS map. No wonder you are seeing such 0-100 and 1/4 mile times, I'd say you are losing half a second right there.
Try the 3000rpm launch though first, i think you will have better results. Mine is set at 3000 rpm and the process is super smooth, faster 0-30 than some 450-500bhp cars which makes me think there's a sweet point between rpm and available traction somewhere there, especially for cars which are mostly stock (no upgraded bushes/engine mounts etc.) 490bhp and 4500 rpm is brutal despite DSG software, you start looking at DSG clutch pack upgrades etc.

Not optimal fuel, road and a hot day add a few tenths for sure. There's also some variation in every car's performance so to make sure you have the best picture you need to repeat a few times at optimal conditions (if you want to bother).

Regarding the auto up-shifting I don't want to sound critical to you at all (quite the contrary), but to your tuner. He can't blame the gearbox for this as it's been shown that other DQ381 maps have overcome this. Yes it's a trickier gearbox, REVO hasn't even released a DQ381 map after almost 2 years of it being out, which means more time has to be spent on writing the DSG software than previous 'boxes but we have seen it can be done. My GTI Clubsport had the auto up-shift function disabled previously, the tuner who mapped that car could also not explain to me why this was deleted even though it should be on, and when I hit the limiter it was very unpleasant...
 

7 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Ok, in that video it is clear something is not right in that run (or is every launch like this?)  You can see the rpm hit 7000+ and instead of up-shifting to second gear, bounce back to ~6200, then up-shift at something like 6800. This is very similar to what I was getting when I had stock DSG and the JB4 on but it got resolved after the TVS map. No wonder you are seeing such 0-100 and 1/4 mile times, I'd say you are losing half a second right there.
Try the 3000rpm launch though first, i think you will have better results. Mine is set at 3000 rpm and the process is super smooth, faster 0-30 than some 450-500bhp cars which makes me think there's a sweet point between rpm and available traction somewhere there, especially for cars which are mostly stock (no upgraded bushes/engine mounts etc.) 490bhp and 4500 rpm is brutal despite DSG software, you start looking at DSG clutch pack upgrades etc.

 

I have tried 4 or maybe 5 launches in all, and don't want to destroy the clutch so that's enough (for now). But at that moment I didn't think that 3.000 rpm would have been enough for launch.. for sure 4.500 are too much, now i know.

 

7 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Regarding the auto up-shifting I don't want to sound critical to you at all (quite the contrary), but to your tuner. He can't blame the gearbox for this as it's been shown that other DQ381 maps have overcome this. Yes it's a trickier gearbox, REVO hasn't even released a DQ381 map after almost 2 years of it being out, which means more time has to be spent on writing the DSG software than previous 'boxes but we have seen it can be done. My GTI Clubsport had the auto up-shift function disabled previously, the tuner who mapped that car could also not explain to me why this was deleted even though it should be on, and when I hit the limiter it was very unpleasant...

 

yes, this left me a little disappointed.
Especially because on the ECU it did a good job in my opinion, you can also see it from the dyno chart. I have already told him that if he does not solve this problem I will turn to someone else, but for the moment he does not know how to solve it. He says the problem is due to the ECU which on the golf R and the others is 18.1 while mine is 18.10, and probably the lack of autoupshift is due to a "communication error" between DSG and ECU.

 

4 hours ago, Roscio said:

yes, this left me a little disappointed.
Especially because on the ECU it did a good job in my opinion, you can also see it from the dyno chart. I have already told him that if he does not solve this problem I will turn to someone else, but for the moment he does not know how to solve it. He says the problem is due to the ECU which on the golf R and the others is 18.1 while mine is 18.10, and probably the lack of autoupshift is due to a "communication error" between DSG and ECU.

 

Ideally the tuner you trust would be the best for both ECU and DSG but sometimes it's just not the case. In a sense, I prefer that everyone is an expert at their own field and not on everything, it just makes more sense in my eyes. Not saying it's impossible for someone to be both, and in many cases it is, but sometimes you just have to visit someone else if nothing else works out. Hopefully your tuner will be able to solve this for you.

Maybe not a 1:1 comparison but do you go to the same place for the best pizza AND best pasta in town?? 

PS. My 272 was built January 2019. I pulled some S/W versions and data from OBDEleven out of curiosity but it doesn't state the version you refer to (any 18.xx version I mean). I am curious to see if they are the same so there could be a real difference of yours or not.

I saw a photo of your car in another thread, what have you done to the rear light clusters? Smoked the clear section?

7 hours ago, Max M4X WW said:

I saw a photo of your car in another thread, what have you done to the rear light clusters? Smoked the clear section?

 

I applied a darkened film on the central part of the light.
If I'm not mistaken, the S3 restyling in the sportline version now has the same part of the rear lights darkened... so Skoda designers must have looked at my car for the restyling! 

 

 

On 28/06/2020 at 23:57, newbie69 said:

PS. My 272 was built January 2019. I pulled some S/W versions and data from OBDEleven out of curiosity but it doesn't state the version you refer to (any 18.xx version I mean). I am curious to see if they are the same so there could be a real difference of yours or not.

 

Mine was built february 2019. I refer to simos hardware version, which should be 18.10 on ours. I haven't checked yet but found this:

 

https://store.034motorsport.com/checking-ecu-tcu-box-code-software-version-audi-volkswagen

55 minutes ago, Roscio said:

 

Mine was built february 2019. I refer to simos hardware version, which should be 18.10 on ours. I haven't checked yet but found this:

 

https://store.034motorsport.com/checking-ecu-tcu-box-code-software-version-audi-volkswagen

Yeah I know what you were referring to, what I meant was that via VCDS/OBDEleven you don't see that particular version you refer to (18.xx) but different formats of the box versions.

Mine (from the ECU where I understood the issue lies according to your tuner) are:

Hardware version: H13
Software number: 3G0906259J
Software version: 0002

This was just to confirm whether we have the same versions, in which case you can claim that the auto up-shift can be maintained.

2 hours ago, Roscio said:

 

I applied a darkened film on the central part of the light.
If I'm not mistaken, the S3 restyling in the sportline version now has the same part of the rear lights darkened... so Skoda designers must have looked at my car for the restyling! 

 

 

I assumed this is what you had done, just a case of finding the correct film then! I have used film before but it was a shade of brown rather than black and looked a little odd.

33 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Mine (from the ECU where I understood the issue lies according to your tuner) are:

Hardware version: H13
Software number: 3G0906259J
Software version: 0002

This was just to confirm whether we have the same versions, in which case you can claim that the auto up-shift can be maintained.

 

Almost the same here (i have "software version 0001"):

01 Elettronica motore
        Descrizione sistema: R4 2.0l TFS  
        Numero software: 3G0906259J 
        Versione software: 0001
        Numero Hardware: 06K907425J 
        Versione Hardware: H13

 

I'm sure that the auto upshift can be maintained, I only have to ask the right tuner.

TVS would be the best choice for quality, but to be honest now I don't want to pay another 1.500 € for TVS's stage3 dsg map. And also because the kw's suspension for dcc should integrate perfectly with the standard dcc system.......but I have to calm down a bit otherwise my wife throws me out of the house (I don't know if it is correct to say in English but I think the meaning is clear)

 

32 minutes ago, Max M4X WW said:

 

I assumed this is what you had done, just a case of finding the correct film then! I have used film before but it was a shade of brown rather than black and looked a little odd.

 

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0777MJ6WY/

this is the one i bought, asin # B0777MJ6WY (actually mine is black and not carbon look like the one shown).

Edited 1 July, 20205 yr by Roscio

7 minutes ago, Roscio said:

 

Almost the same here (i have "software version 0001"):

01 Elettronica motore
        Descrizione sistema: R4 2.0l TFS  
        Numero software: 3G0906259J 
        Versione software: 0001
        Numero Hardware: 06K907425J 
        Versione Hardware: H13

 

I'm sure that the auto upshift can be maintained, I only have to ask the right tuner.

TVS would be the best choice for quality, but to be honest now I don't want to pay another 1.500 € for TVS's stage3 dsg map. And also because the kw's suspension for dcc should integrate perfectly with the standard dcc system.......but I have to calm down a bit otherwise my wife throws me out of the house (I don't know if it is correct to say in English but I think the meaning is clear)

Yeap, all the same apart from Software Version being 0002 on mine, i wonder what that is about...

Actually it's 1250EUR but maybe it's irrelevant as their SIII is rated for 700Nm and you are not going anywhere near those torque figures. In fact, their stage 2+ is rated for 600Nm which is i believe more than you currently make or even could make with some extra improvements and that one costs 799EUR (same as i got on mine). I wouldn't like to go above 600Nm anyway as you will be needing upgraded DSG clutches sooner or later.

https://tvsengineering.com/en/performance/gearbox-software/#dsgTuning

Did you pull the trigger on the KW DCC already?? Not sure i see the relation between the DSG map and the KW apart from relieving your pockets too much  

Yeah the wife comment is very clear in all languages 

3 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Yeah the wife comment is very clear in all languages 

 

It depends who wears the trousers 

7 hours ago, newbie69 said:

I wouldn't like to go above 600Nm anyway as you will be needing upgraded DSG clutches sooner or later.

 

Upgraded DSG clutches for sure but don't forget forged connecting rods and pistons too... I think 500-550 Nm is enough!

 

7 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Did you pull the trigger on the KW DCC already?? Not sure i see the relation between the DSG map and the KW apart from relieving your pockets too much  

Yeah the wife comment is very clear in all languages 

 

Nope, I want to wait, but it is a good option for now.

But I think you got what i meant about not wanting to spend money for DSG map, for now. First I have to tell her about how good would be the new suspensions, then I can be disappointed about actual dsg map and spend money for a new dsg map.
If I did the opposite the new suspension would become a bad idea.

 

4 hours ago, Bigeater said:

 

It depends who wears the trousers 

 

That's not me, for sure!

Roscio - How many miles did you cover between fitting the new downpipe and your stage 3 remap?

Most adverts for downpipes say you must go to stage 2 when fitting an uprated downpipe, however on the golf r forum, a lot of owners on there said they haven't done a stage 2 tune.

Some owners report the mil light coming on, but this doesn't change engine performance.

It's been a good few weeks since I did any modding and i'm itching to get a downpipe on and worry about the next map some other time.

 

2 minutes ago, Bigeater said:

Roscio - How many miles did you cover between fitting the new downpipe and your stage 3 remap?

Most adverts for downpipes say you must go to stage 2 when fitting an uprated downpipe, however on the golf r forum, a lot of owners on there said they haven't done a stage 2 tune.

Some owners report the mil light coming on, but this doesn't change engine performance.

It's been a good few weeks since I did any modding and i'm itching to get a downpipe on and worry about the next map some other time.

 

About 200 km - 120 miles. You have to tune it to stage2 to get the power from you turbo. With a downpipe it can work at 1.8 bar, but only with a map. Otherwise your turbo will be limited by your current map parameters and you cannot use its full potential. Without a remap you'will have the same performance and slightly better sound.

Be careful if you choose Milletek's downpipe. I had to modify it, its supports interfered with the crankshaft.

 

6 hours ago, Bigeater said:

Roscio - How many miles did you cover between fitting the new downpipe and your stage 3 remap?

Most adverts for downpipes say you must go to stage 2 when fitting an uprated downpipe, however on the golf r forum, a lot of owners on there said they haven't done a stage 2 tune.

Some owners report the mil light coming on, but this doesn't change engine performance.

It's been a good few weeks since I did any modding and i'm itching to get a downpipe on and worry about the next map some other time.

 

The CEL light depends on the downpipe too according to reports, some trigger it immediately, some others don't. To do it right though you do need a stage 2 remap.

There could be a small benefit from just the new hardware but definitely not the full effect as Roscio said.

But since it's a 280 where stage 2 maps are available (unlike the 272) and no pesky GPFs to deal with I don't see why you wouldn't do both at the same time?


Have you measured any times with your current setup? It'd be a good idea to do also to provide some comparison between current and future mods.

11 hours ago, newbie69 said:

The CEL light depends on the downpipe too according to reports, some trigger it immediately, some others don't. To do it right though you do need a stage 2 remap.

There could be a small benefit from just the new hardware but definitely not the full effect as Roscio said.

But since it's a 280 where stage 2 maps are available (unlike the 272) and no pesky GPFs to deal with I don't see why you wouldn't do both at the same time?


Have you measured any times with your current setup? It'd be a good idea to do also to provide some comparison between current and future mods.

 

I understand that a stage 2 map has to be used to get the benefit  from the downpipe, but it's all a matter of cost at the moment - 2 holidays to pay for etc etc 

 

I haven't measured any times - I wouldn't know where to start, but if I can work it out I think it would be a good idea to start a separate thread (272 & 280 comparisons) to keep Roscios thread on track. 👍

4 hours ago, Bigeater said:

 

I understand that a stage 2 map has to be used to get the benefit  from the downpipe, but it's all a matter of cost at the moment - 2 holidays to pay for etc etc 

 

I haven't measured any times - I wouldn't know where to start, but if I can work it out I think it would be a good idea to start a separate thread (272 & 280 comparisons) to keep Roscios thread on track. 👍

Well you could buy it now to scratch that itch you're having and keep it off the car till you're ready to go stage 2 at a later stage. Or throw it on and drive around with the CEL, i think it can be erased afterwards, it's not as if it would affect performance AFAIK.

But in any case the cost of stage 2 map can't be the issue, can it? Get APR's downpipe and the stage 2 remap should be free, at least that's how it was in the past if you have APR Stage 1 like you do, you can thank me later 

You'd need a 10Hz GPS device like Dragy or P-Gear if you wanted the times to be accurate, phone GPS is not reliable enough.

9 hours ago, Bigeater said:

I understand that a stage 2 map has to be used to get the benefit  from the downpipe, but it's all a matter of cost at the moment - 2 holidays to pay for etc etc 

 

4 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Get APR's downpipe and the stage 2 remap should be free, at least that's how it was in the past if you have APR Stage 1 like you do

 

@Bigeater this would be a very good deal if you could get APR's dp with a free stage2 upgrade map!!

 

9 hours ago, Bigeater said:

I haven't measured any times - I wouldn't know where to start, but if I can work it out I think it would be a good idea to start a separate thread (272 & 280 comparisons) to keep Roscios thread on track. 👍

 

no worries, you're welcome. The important thing is that you keep us updated about it!  

Out of pure curiosity I wanted to weigh the car.
From the spec it should be 1629 kg for the 2.0 tsi 4x4 sedan, including the 75 kg driver.
In fact it turned out that it weighs 1685 kg. Trunk empty, without driver and full tank.

2 minutes ago, Roscio said:

Out of pure curiosity I wanted to weigh the car.
From the spec it should be 1629 kg for the 2.0 tsi 4x4 sedan, including the 75 kg driver.
In fact it turned out that it weighs 1685 kg. Trunk empty, without driver and full tank.

Must be all those extra toys the L & K model comes with as standard. The only option I have is the space saver spare wheel but it's worth it over the useless can of junk most cars come with from the factory. We need someone to make a carbon fibre bonnet.

20 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Must be all those extra toys the L & K model comes with as standard. The only option I have is the space saver spare wheel but it's worth it over the useless can of junk most cars come with from the factory. We need someone to make a carbon fibre bonnet.

 

yes, i think that 1.554 kg are for base model with 272 engine. But apart from sunroof (35 kg?) and spare wheel (15 kg?) I don't get what could make that difference. Maybe I should subtract about 40kg of petrol (i had just refueled). In that case from specs the car should weight 1.554 + 35 + 15 + 40 = 1.644 kg. But there are always 40 kg of difference.
Or maybe the base model comes without seats and doors? 

Try and weigh mine this weekend as a place I have worked are on the same industrial estate and ask for a printout on their weighbridge (think it only calculates to the nearest 10kg) but will have full fuel tank on Friday so will be interesting to compare.

For sure it will be interesting to compare!

 

The weighbridge i used has a tolerance of +- 5kg...

 

3 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Must be all those extra toys the L & K model comes with as standard. The only option I have is the space saver spare wheel but it's worth it over the useless can of junk most cars come with from the factory. We need someone to make a carbon fibre bonnet.

I highly doubt it has to do with the L&K. I have the same equipment as Roscio on my car (because every possible extra minus sun-roof and spare wheel was added), I even got stuff like electric tow bar and the Webasto auxiliary heater ( @Roscio do you have those? ) that contribute to weight and my Sportline still showed 1620kg with 1/4 of fuel and a 7-8kg child seat in, precision was  +/- 10kg I think.





It's probably just the sun-roof, spare wheel and all that fuel that make this 65kg difference. They make for quite some extra weight though.

11 hours ago, newbie69 said:

I even got stuff like electric tow bar and the Webasto auxiliary heater ( @Roscio do you have those? )

Nope

 

11 hours ago, newbie69 said:

It's probably just the sun-roof, spare wheel and all that fuel that make this 65kg difference. They make for quite some extra weight though.

 

Yes, if we consider the differences in equipment and fuel it seems to me that the numbers are more or less the same. 

So I think that the specs are not correct, or at least that they refer to far from reality conditions.