Should History be airbrushed/side stepped because of the Black Lives Matter movement?

[skomaz]

46 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Pointless IMHO as some people clearly can't see why getting rid of monuments celebrating racist slave owners and putting them in a museum where they belong is a good thing. 

 

Simple question Lee - do you think a statue in a museum in a single location in the country dedicated to slavery would get the message across to more people than the same statues in multiple locations across the country all with a sign and info next to them about who they were and the bad stuff they did?

 

My bet is that the latter will have a far greater 'reach' than the former.

[Mickvrs220]

You can debate it argue about it ,and point fingers at people who have made mistakes ,but the past is exactly what it says ,the past ,learn from it so we dont repeat it ,pulling down statues will achieve nothing because the things those people did doesnt go away it happened .

[@Lee]

5 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Simple question Lee - do you think a statue in a museum in a single location in the country dedicated to slavery would get the message across to more people than the same statues in multiple locations across the country all with a sign and info next to them about who they were and the bad stuff they did?

 

My bet is that the latter will have a far greater 'reach' than the former.

Yes. I see statues all the time and walk past them without reading the inscription as many other people do. There's only so much info that can be given on a plaque or inscription at the base of a statue. Lots of museums have exhibitions which move from one city or town to another to get a better reach. As I said before, maybe history in schools should be updated to include the nasty parts of British history. Do schools even take kids on museum visits these days? 
I'm specifically referring to the Colston statue here but do you think it's right that black people in Bristol, of which there are many, should have to walk past a racist slave owner as they go about their business? 

[Arkaig]

[@Lee]

@Arkaig I'm surprised France haven't asked for it back given what's written on it.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[skomaz]

2 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Yes. I see statues all the time and walk past them without reading the inscription as many other people do. There's only so much info that can be given on a plaque or inscription at the base of a statue. Lots of museums have exhibitions which move from one city or town to another to get a better reach. As I said before, maybe history in schools should be updated to include the nasty parts of British history. Do schools even take kids on museum visits these days? 
I'm specifically referring to the Colston statue here but do you think it's right that black people in Bristol, of which there are many, should have to walk past a racist slave owner as they go about their business? 

 

Yep - I agree we should teach kids about the bad stuff as well as the other bits - no doubt about that.

 

In terms of the statue in Bristol - my response would depend on whether those concerned feel they are affected by it - as per other similar issues whether something is deemed offensive is determined by the way it is received by the individual (we've had this discussion elsewhere I recall).   Personally what I would say is that those I've spoken to locally seem to have a divided opinion, in that some aren't affected or bothered by such things and want to focus on the here-and-now, whilst others are affected and want them removed.

 

If there is an over-riding number in favour of removal (and not just a vocal minority) then fine - personally I simply think it would be better to leave them in place and use them as a means to educate (for want of a better word) about our history past and wrongdoings.

[Ootohere]

A statue to Julie Andrews or some Queen.

[jules68leo]

8 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

@Arkaig I'm surprised France haven't asked for it back given what's written on it.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

 

is that dire straits?

[@Lee]

2 minutes ago, jules68leo said:

 

 

is that dire straits?

Is that sarcasm?

[jules68leo]

Just now, Lee01 said:

Is that sarcasm?

 

 

could be 

[@Lee]

7 minutes ago, skomaz said:

If there is an over-riding number in favour of removal (and not just a vocal minority) then fine - personally I simply think it would be better to leave them in place and use them as a means to educate (for want of a better word) about our history past and wrongdoings.

Or we could put them in a museum  

[shyVRS245]

1 hour ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

My plan would be to pick a top racist to represent a country and then blame them for everything.

It does not matter if they say whatever about different people being their friends, family or employees.

 

1. UK  Boris Johnson.

2. USA Donald Trump.

 

Or to represent both of above Nigel Farage.

 

 

 

If he was still alive Robert Mugabe would be right up there in the top 10. He truly hated White people and any opposition parties.

Edited 11 June, 2020 by shyVRS245
spelling mistake

[@Lee]

Well, here's an idea that should keep everyone happy  

[Mickvrs220]

10 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

If he was still alive Robert Mugabe would be right up there in the top 10. He truly hated White people and any oppostion parties.

I think mugabe hated anyone beneath him regardless of skin colour ,nasty human being 🤬

[@Lee]

Philomena Cunk  

 

[Frenchtone]

lets not forget Saddam!!

[Cakemonster]

I'm confused by the Baden-Powell statue, it was only erected in 2008, a mere 12 years ago (Colston's was 1895). Weren't we in enlightened politically correct times then? Surely it would've needed planning permission and objections could've been heard then? (Maybe they were and over ruled?? Anyone know?) 

 

Personally, I think the statues should be used as a means of education, to teach those of all ages of the mistakes of the past and ensure they aren't made again. If that means moving them into a museum or similar to create "balance" so be it.

 

I quite like Banksy's idea, that would definitely be a talking point. 

 

[Bigeater]

16 hours ago, john999boy said:

The reason for the title change was to encompass all the other related things happening instead of just appertaining to the removal or defacing of statues.

 

BTW I'm not sure what you mean by cheating to get the result I want?

 

Would anyone prefer that I added a Poll?

 

I meant it tongue in cheek. Sorry. I certainly don't want a poll. And I see now the reasoning for changing it as it's reached a broader field of conversation - which should continue without baiting imo.

[john999boy]

I appreciate that Baden-Powell and Saddam Hussein have been raised here plus (and not solely) one episode of Fawlty Towers elsewhere when attracting a greater awareness of cultural change,

but this is really to concentrate on the 'Black Lives Matter' movement with regards to, in effect, the potential re-writing of history or the prevention of related artefacts being 'on show' to a wider audience in their present settings.

 

Obviously the Banksy idea and Lee's last meme would be considered on topic but I doubt Robert Mugabe or Julie Andrews falls into the remit.

[shyVRS245]

1 hour ago, Frenchtone said:

lets not forget Saddam!!

Or Colonel RIP Gaddafi (Libya).

[john999boy]

8 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Or Colonel RIP Gaddafi (Libya).

Might be a good idea to read my previous post!

[shyVRS245]

Just now, john999boy said:

Might be a good idea to read my previous post!

Sorry John I posted and then read your post so RED FACE moment now.🥵

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, john999boy said:

I appreciate that Baden-Powell and Saddam Hussein have been raised here plus (and not solely) one episode of Fawlty Towers elsewhere when attracting a greater awareness of cultural change,

Just listening to Talkback on BBC; statement from UKTV said that they pulled one episode of Fawlty Towers to review it. Apparently it's still available on other streaming services such as Britbox which is a BBC/ ITV service.
Convo starts after the news at the beginning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_ulster

Edited 12 June, 2020 by Lee01

[Bigeater]

In response to the uktv - It's out of hand now. Are 'they' going to airbrush out what AJ said about black people only buying stuff from non-white shops.

This division must end, but it won't when 'stars' say stuff like this.

 

Edited 12 June, 2020 by Bigeater

[Ootohere]

@Bigeater  Sorry but i had no idea that Al Jolson said anything about that, where can i find it?