Shame about the engines/gearbox

[Octy0GG]

Right I'll say it right up front, unpalatable as it is to some - I don't want a DSG. There it is, done it, said it. 

 

Following on - Skoda really don't appear to want my money.

 

First the Octavia III 190PS 2.0 TSI SEL - sounded like a great idea, but hold on, DSG only.

 

Ocavia IV, well I still don't trust Skippy the 1.5TSI so perhaps its back to diesel, 2 litre, ah but hold again, 150 PS is reserved for DSG - you want manual -116 PS is good enough for you then. 

 

There is the possibility of being able to stretch to a vRS next time (Having said that I don't see the wheel/tyre combo it will come with coping with the roads in my area)  but will vRS buyers be allowed a manual option?

 

Looking up the Skoda range further - Superb, wall to wall DSGs

 

Don't get me wrong I'm happy for DSG fans but I'm beginning to hate those 3 letters - every nice looking car I see, start reading the spec, still looking good, but sooner or latter there it is  -DSG.

 

Come on Skoda, how about some decent options for folk that still want a manual gearbox?

 

 

 

 

[shyVRS245]

I understand what you're saying being a lifelong fan of manual gearboxes. However the clutch went on my manual 11,000 mile 2014 FL Superb diesel and it if hadn't been covered under warranty I was looking at a bill north of £1,000 to fix it. In 2016 I bought a 1.4TSi ACT manual Superb which was nice to drive and very economical (easy 50mpg and 800 mile range) however it was boring. That was replaced by another manual Octavia Vrs245 very highly spec with wheels you would hate 19" with 225/35 rubber band tyres. Firm ride yes good fun absolutely but traction issues particularly on wet roads made me decide to have 2 things I thought I would hate. A DSG (7 speed) and 4WD Superb but much to my surprise this 2019 car does everything brilliantly. It is very safe and secure on a wet road just puts the power down (even going from a standard 283to stage 1 360bhp) and it is still huge inside with a massive boot but the biggest surprise to me has been the 39.11mpg average over 5,700 miles since I bought it used last December. One final point having alternated between Octavia and Superb the material quality on the Superb is at the same level as an Audi or BMW whereas the Octavia is not quite a match for a Golf but way better than a Focus, so it really depends on what you need. Manuals are a dying breed like diesels unfortunately due to tax changes and petrol being cheaper than diesel plus the added cost of Adblue these days. Our last 4 petrol cars have proven to be very economical if driven sensibly with a 1.2TSi manual Rapid hitting 66mpg, the 1.4TSi manual Superb 64mpg and wife's current car 1.5TSi manual (yes we had some issues with skippy until the software update fixed it) Karoq that staggered me with a 66mpg recently. Even the Octavia Vrs245 manual managed 50mpg and my current 272 Superb all wheel drive and 1,627kg managed a decent 49mpg.

[Ootohere]

Skoda needs to get the Average Co2 g/km low and the WLTP / RDE2 figures where they want them so are going to offer the cars that can get the results under the tests so what they can offer is limited or they will have to pay the cost of the high emission vehicles, even if in the real world they are no high emission emitting.

So DSG's. Light Hybrids, Plug in Hybrids and eventually EV's. 

[nickcoll]

I am entirely with Octy0GG - I am struggling to work out what to get next. My current car is a 63 reg Octavia 2.0TDi 150PS 4x4 and I love it to bits, but although it is surprisingly rapid I am tempted by a 190PS new one when they eventually arrive. But I am not keen on a DSG.

 

The main question I have not been able to answer when I have driven DSGs is how you use the gearbox to balance the car in a corner. For me this is the most important aspect of a manual gearbox when pressing on - dropping down from 6th to 4th when approaching a bend enables you to use the accelerator to keep the pressure on the suspension, keeping it flat. Without this it's much harder to drive as smoothly when going reasonably fast cross- country.

 

I know this is possible in theory with a DSG by putting it into manual mode but it just doesn't feel the same at all. Can anyone enlighten me on whether this is something I will adapt to, or do most people just let the gearbox do what it wants to do and accept that they body waves around a bit in corners as a result?

[IJWS15]

Me too, a 2.0 TDI superb arriving soon but looked at the new octavia and as above, you can't have the 2.0 TDi 150 with a manual.  They do have a gearbox/clutch that can handle the torque as I am about to get one delivered in the Superb.

 

I am also surprised that the smaller engines have gone.

[OctaviaMK4]

I haven't had any issues with the Kangarooing (Skippy) so far. I have the 1.5TSI.

I used to own a 2.0TDI 170, and I miss the torque of a diesel (Before that I had a wonderful beast - 530d with 500NM )

 

But I think that diesels are becoming a pain in the neck when they get older.

 

DPF, AdBlue, stuck EGR with soot, diesels injector that cost an arm and a leg to replace,  glow plugs, ...the smell, ...ugh. 

Edited 29 July, 2020 by OctaviaMK4

[Guest]

'Skippy' is history. Do these people still tell Skoda jokes, prefer manual rather than automatic chokes because the initial ones gave problems and say cylinder deactivation is prone to failure?

 

I prefer a manual too but we all better start getting used to driving clutchless because that's the direction everyone is heading.

On 12/07/2020 at 19:45, nickcoll said:

 Can anyone enlighten me on whether this is something I will adapt to?

 

Is more a matter of having to adapt or take up cycling because like it or not, manual gearboxes are on their way out.

Edited 30 July, 2020 by Guest

[J.R.]

20 hours ago, OctaviaMK4 said:

 

DPF, AdBlue, stuck EGR with soot, diesels injector that cost an arm and a leg to replace,  glow plugs, ...the smell, ...ugh. 

 

My MK1 Octavia 1.9 TDi did 325000 miles without a single penny or centime being spent on any of those items, in fact all the engine needed during that time was an £8 cambelt, a £12 alternator regulator pack (worn brushes) and an £8 coolant temp sensor all of which would have been needed on a petrol engine plus many spark plugs and by the sound of things several coil packs.

 

I think your comments are valid for newer EU5 and EU6 diesels but do the new petrol engines have any less complicated emissions systems?

[Octy0GG]

2 hours ago, Scot5 said:

'Skippy' is history. Do these people still tell Skoda jokes, prefer manual rather than automatic chokes because the initial ones gave problems and say cylinder deactivation is prone to failure?

 

I prefer a manual too but we all better start getting used to driving clutchless because that's the direction everyone is heading.

 

Is more a matter of having to adapt or take up cycling because like it or not, manual gearboxes are on their way out.

It's genuinely great to hear from OctaviaMK4 that 'I haven't had any issues with the Kangarooing (Skippy) so far. I have the 1.5TSI.' and I have no reason to question their experience of the 1.5 in the MK4. Still a bit early for me to judge Skippy to be entirely banished to history though - particularly if I'm spending my own money.

 

When do you believe Skippy became part of history? (very recent history it would have to be said) and what has he got to to with 'these people' who may or may not still be telling Skoda jokes?

 

There are indeed loads of folk that prefer a manual, the change to autos has not been initiated by consumers - It has been a hard sell from manufacturers and dealers to push autos coupled with ever increasing trend of banishing manuals to the less desirable lower powered models. There is a lot more change going on than there is progress, but for the time being only manufacturers still selling a suitable manual gearbox model have a chance of getting their hands on my money - not saying that won't change in the future but that is where customer choice is a great thing.

 

 

 

 

[nickcoll]

3 hours ago, Scot5 said:

'Skippy' is history. Do these people still tell Skoda jokes, prefer manual rather than automatic chokes because the initial ones gave problems and say cylinder deactivation is prone to failure?

 

I prefer a manual too but we all better start getting used to driving clutchless because that's the direction everyone is heading.

 

Is more a matter of having to adapt or take up cycling because like it or not, manual gearboxes are on their way out.

 

Ha! Why does everything get dumbed down nowadays? What happened to progress making things better? No need to answer that! 

[OctaviaMK4]

12 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

My MK1 Octavia 1.9 TDi did 325000 miles without a single penny or centime being spent on any of those items, in fact all the engine needed during that time was an £8 cambelt, a £12 alternator regulator pack (worn brushes) and an £8 coolant temp sensor all of which would have been needed on a petrol engine plus many spark plugs and by the sound of things several coil packs.

 

I think your comments are valid for newer EU5 and EU6 diesels but do the new petrol engines have any less complicated emissions systems?

I agree.

 

I also drove a 1.9 TDi 90 bhp from 2006 ...

 

But this was the oldschool Tdi engine. 

 

Petrol engines, the new ones, I don't think that they have so complicated emissions systems. To be honest I haven't researched it much.

[AJAMESR]

Have had manuals all my life and not only does it look like DSG is in my future BUT I have to pay extra for it 😂  Its an extra kick in the bulldogs. "Heres something you dont want and its 2000 more expensive" - Thanks! But I wonder is it also a location (Market) issue. Have you tried configurators in other countries to see what they have available? I am in Ireland and we see diff options on our config to some options even in the UK, not to mention when i get exotic and try Czech etc...

 

Also - Handbrakes a thing of the past - thats actually a bigger gripe for me. Hate hate hate auto handbrakes. 

 

 

[Phil245]

I don't want or even like the DSG, my daughter has it in her Polo GTi and the Father in Law has the equivalent in a Captur.

 

I wanted the 2.0TSi petrol 190PS as 1st choice, then the 190 2.0 TDi as 2nd choice but both only available with DSG I think so ended up with 3rd choice the 150PS  2.0 TDi  Manual which unfortunately for Skoda was cheaper so they down sold me.......😒

 

But it's all immaterial really cos we'll all be in an EV very very soon............

[Octy0GG]

3 hours ago, AJAMESR said:

 "Heres something you dont want and its 2000 more expensive" - Thanks! 

 

 Hate hate hate auto handbrakes. 

 

 

"Heres something you dont want and its 2000 more expensive" - Thanks!                  That sums it up beautifully

 

Hate hate hate auto handbrakes.  -  3 Hates not enough , add in a few extra for me.    Something else a lot of folk don't want but are expected to be excited by when the next model update dispenses with a proper handbrake.

 

Hey Skoda how about doing something really nice that wouldn't cost any extra - not just a proper handbrake but a proper fly off handbrake - that would be a real selling point. (Aye, I know, not going to happen.)

[AJAMESR]

Just had a look at options for engines and Gearboxes on the Superb on the UK and the Irish websites. Amazing difference in whats available. 

ONLY DSG options on UK. But Ireland has Manual and DSG available.

BUT

Ireland only goes as high as 2L 150ps

UK Site has190ps and 272ps options.

 

Why the disparity? I would seriously consider a Sportline Superb if I could get the 2L Petrol 190. Can't bring myself to go to the 150 coming from a VRS Octy. 

Obviously they are building them to spec, what does it matter what country you are in as to what is available for you to avail of?

Just give the customer the options and let them at it. 

But as it is, we have all the manual gearboxes and you have all the nice engines 🙂 

 

[Guest]

On 30/07/2020 at 21:09, Octy0GG said:

It's genuinely great to hear from OctaviaMK4 that 'I haven't had any issues with the Kangarooing (Skippy) so far. I have the 1.5TSI.' and I have no reason to question their experience of the 1.5 in the MK4. Still a bit early for me to judge Skippy to be entirely banished to history though - particularly if I'm spending my own money.

 

When do you believe Skippy became part of history? (very recent history it would have to be said) and what has he got to to with 'these people' who may or may not still be telling Skoda jokes?

 

There are indeed loads of folk that prefer a manual, the change to autos has not been initiated by consumers - It has been a hard sell from manufacturers and dealers to push autos coupled with ever increasing trend of banishing manuals to the less desirable lower powered models. There is a lot more change going on than there is progress, but for the time being only manufacturers still selling a suitable manual gearbox model have a chance of getting their hands on my money - not saying that won't change in the future but that is where customer choice is a great thing.

 

Easy answer. Look at all the forums Skoda, VW, SEAT and Audi and tell me how many reports of this problem with cars this year? I checked b4 buying our Karoq in December so would go as far to say no reports of the problem in the last quarter of 2019 either.

 

What does it have to do with Skoda jokes?  Some people see what they want to see, believe what they want to believe and won't let anything like facts get in the way.  Some people will always say the 1.5 engines kangeroo just like some people would will always say a Skoda is a joke of a car. These people will never be convinced otherwise.

Edited 1 August, 2020 by Guest

[Octy0GG]

32 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

 

Easy answer. Look at all the forums Skoda, VW, SEAT and Audi and tell me how many reports of this problem with cars this year? I checked b4 buying our Karoq in December so would go as far to say no reports of the problem in the last quarter of 2019 either.

 

What does it have to do with Skoda jokes?  Some people see what they want to see, believe what they want to believe and won't let anything like facts get in the way.  Some people will always say the 1.5 engines kangeroo just like some people would will always say a Skoda is a joke of a car. These people will never be convinced otherwise.

The posts are out there if you look, they are not really hard to find. It isn't Skoda's old pre VAG cars and the associated jokes (cant remember the last time I heard one) that damages Skoda's image it is Dieselgate and Skippygate. Here's hoping they have finaly got it fixed though - and without introducing some other problem in the process. 

[PaperPlanes90]

On 12/07/2020 at 19:45, nickcoll said:

I am entirely with Octy0GG - I am struggling to work out what to get next. My current car is a 63 reg Octavia 2.0TDi 150PS 4x4 and I love it to bits, but although it is surprisingly rapid I am tempted by a 190PS new one when they eventually arrive. But I am not keen on a DSG.

 

The main question I have not been able to answer when I have driven DSGs is how you use the gearbox to balance the car in a corner. For me this is the most important aspect of a manual gearbox when pressing on - dropping down from 6th to 4th when approaching a bend enables you to use the accelerator to keep the pressure on the suspension, keeping it flat. Without this it's much harder to drive as smoothly when going reasonably fast cross- country.

 

I know this is possible in theory with a DSG by putting it into manual mode but it just doesn't feel the same at all. Can anyone enlighten me on whether this is something I will adapt to, or do most people just let the gearbox do what it wants to do and accept that they body waves around a bit in corners as a result?

I agree with you about the worries of stability around corners and bends.

 

I have done training through my work with regards to driving at speed and car control etc. Gear control and accelerator sense around bends is one of the major aspects of keeping what you are doing safe and giving you the best possible control.

 

This always put me off about DSG, however after having recently purchased one I think it just requires a bit of adapting on the driver's part. I find if I drop down a gear using manual with plenty of time, this does the job sufficiently.

 

However, there are occasions when I have forgotten due to being engrossed in just letting the auto car do its thing. I have just had to adjust my right foot a bit more so when mid turn. No issues really just not ideal.

 

I love the gearbox personally. Its my first ever auto and with the DSG I don't see myself going back. And that's a big statement because I have been very vocal over the years about manual being the best.

 

However, I really can't deny that for certain road conditions, you can't beat the control a manual offers. However like I said above, its all about learning to adapt. The DSG allows you to get the same results, its just I need to go about it another way.

 

 

[edbostan]

On a technical note a few years ago Toyota commented that: Why design an engine for maximum efficiency and strict emissions but marry it to a human who will undo their good work? Yes, the human is the weak link. It would be more sensible to design the engine and drivetrain to work in perfect harmony with 'on the go' decisions taken by the car and not the driver. The downside is that driver satisfaction may be taken away. As far as the car is concerned why rag it around and drive on the red line where emissions and economy fly out of the window? Yes automatic control is here to stay and i am surprised it has taken so long and ironic that the internal combustion engine is on the wane and not in the mindset of future propellant considerations.

[nickcoll]

8 minutes ago, PaperPlanes90 said:

I agree with you about the worries of stability around corners and bends.

 

I have done training through my work with regards to driving at speed and car control etc. Gear control and accelerator sense around bends is one of the major aspects of keeping what you are doing safe and giving you the best possible control.

 

This always put me off about DSG, however after having recently purchased one I think it just requires a bit of adapting on the driver's part. I find if I drop down a gear using manual with plenty of time, this does the job sufficiently.

 

However, there are occasions when I have forgotten due to being engrossed in just letting the auto car do its thing. I have just had to adjust my right foot a bit more so when mid turn. No issues really just not ideal.

 

I love the gearbox personally. Its my first ever auto and with the DSG I don't see myself going back. And that's a big statement because I have been very vocal over the years about manual being the best.

 

However, I really can't deny that for certain road conditions, you can't beat the control a manual offers. However like I said above, its all about learning to adapt. The DSG allows you to get the same results, its just I need to go about it another way.

 

 

 

That's a really helpful and balanced response. Thank you very much for the insight.

 

It is somewhat as I expected - one can get used to DSG and it will do something similar, but it's not as good for helping you to balance the car in corners as a manual gearbox. I suppose in practice that few people bother with any of that anyway - they just push the accelerator and don't worry too much about how stable the body is in corners. For most people, therefore, a DSG is no different than a manual. 

 

I may be doing people an injustice, but since I have never heard this issue discussed before I have assumed that this must be the case. I am sure that when I get a DSG I will adapt, but I suspect I will pine for my manual gearbox.

 

Of course it may be that when eventually the specs become known I will face a choice between a manual 4x4 with IRS and 150bhp, or a DSG with 190bhp or so, and what a difficult choice that will be!

[nickcoll]

2 minutes ago, edbostan said:

On a technical note a few years ago Toyota commented that: Why design an engine for maximum efficiency and strict emissions but marry it to a human who will undo their good work? Yes, the human is the weak link. It would be more sensible to design the engine and drivetrain to work in perfect harmony with 'on the go' decisions taken by the car and not the driver. The downside is that driver satisfaction may be taken away. As far as the car is concerned why rag it around and drive on the red line where emissions and economy fly out of the window? Yes automatic control is here to stay and i am surprised it has taken so long and ironic that the internal combustion engine is on the wane and not in the mindset of future propellant considerations.

 

Yes of course, and I can't disagree, but it is possible to drive smoothly and moderately quickly while still achieving excellent economy. In fact I would argue that balancing the car in corners enables one to drive at a higher average speed while avoiding slowing down and speeding up, which inevitably increase consumption every time you have to regain speed.

 

But I totally take your point that the majority of people may find a DSG improves their efficiency if they don't take the trouble to try and drive smoothly and at a more constant speed.

[edbostan]

How far do you go with auto transmission. Roll-Royce have a GPS tracked gearbox which knows the terrain before the car does so changes down before the car feels the uphill drag. Amazing.

[PaperPlanes90]

6 minutes ago, nickcoll said:

 

That's a really helpful and balanced response. Thank you very much for the insight.

 

It is somewhat as I expected - one can get used to DSG and it will do something similar, but it's not as good for helping you to balance the car in corners as a manual gearbox. I suppose in practice that few people bother with any of that anyway - they just push the accelerator and don't worry too much about how stable the body is in corners. For most people, therefore, a DSG is no different than a manual. 

 

I may be doing people an injustice, but since I have never heard this issue discussed before I have assumed that this must be the case. I am sure that when I get a DSG I will adapt, but I suspect I will pine for my manual gearbox.

 

Of course it may be that when eventually the specs become known I will face a choice between a manual 4x4 with IRS and 150bhp, or a DSG with 190bhp or so, and what a difficult choice that will be!

Haha - good luck with your decision! I'm sure you'll love whichever you choose because ultimately, they're brilliant cars!

 

P.S You seem to know your stuff about car control on corners and bends.....its good to see!!! (And reassuring) I worry many people just think the gearbox will look after them and magically keep them on the road if they just plant their right foot down. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

 

 

[PaperPlanes90]

1 minute ago, edbostan said:

How far do you go with auto transmission. Roll-Royce have a GPS tracked gearbox which knows the terrain before the car does so changes down before the car feels the uphill drag. Amazing.

I didn't know that.

 

Clever stuff!!!

 

[Ootohere]

The tech was there ready to go in 2018 VW Golf GTE's and others but VW had to sort out issues with the 'Irregular / implausible C02 g/km results' with them from testing and defeat devices with the DSG (eDSG) / Drivetrain under testing as the  being introduced WLTP /RDE would have caught them out.

The have stuck with the 1.4TSI for the Plug in hybrid, got the DSG acting as they should with hybrids and they can have the GPS doing its things as needed.

 

2017,

then taking orders was suspended and production of these stopped, and now the tech can be across the brands.

VW, Skoda, SEAT & Audi and 1.0 & 1.5 Light Hybrids and 1.4 or 2.0 litre plug ins can have it.

 

@9 minutes.   The future was bright, it just got delayed for a bit..

 

 

Edited 2 August, 2020 by Roottoot