Start Stop problem

[rum4mo]

Oh dear, Skoda just as sloppy as VW when it comes to adding battery data in the assembly line!  JCB is Johnson Controls, they seem to get credited as building batteries for many brands it seems!

 

I thought EU regs had forced car makers to design all the "legal requirement" lights to be able to have bulbs changed at the side of the road with tools supplied  with the car.

[BigEjit]

Long nerdy post alert!

 

Johnson Controls are now out of the battery business. The entire battery division and the brands such as VARTA and Optima was spun off to an investment company. 

 

VW group take batteries from all the main suppliers in Europe to spread supply risk so there will be several battery manufacturers for one VW part number. I reckon there will be a primary setting in the vehicle software listed against a single supplier for a particular part number regardless of who actually supplied the part to the assembly line. 
At the point of fit on the assembly line, the 2D code label on the battery lid is scanned to assign the battery to the vehicle and make sure it’s the right spec for the chassis/power train combo. 
 

Some manufacturers even have two suppliers sending in batteries to one assembly line at the same time which are the same part number and spec but are totally different cosmetically.
 

Batteries are being classed as vehicle lifetime parts so there should be no need to replace them. Exhausts and dampers used to be consumables last century. 

[rum4mo]

Yes, I was impressed to find that my mates T-Roc and my daughter's Leon Cupra both had the exact battery details stored in the "battery data" area of CAN - Gateway.

 

My experience of Johnson Controls, or JCL was when they supplied controllers for factory heating/cooling systems in the '70s, any alterations to the setting meant the local JCL guy being called in!  Later they hovered about while "trendy new wave" thinking meant that many operations units outsourced their facilities managements and staff to JCL, said to be a win-win situation, normally  it was not leading to a downwards spiral of effectiveness of all facilities  which constantly lead to loss of essential facilities only resolved by throwing money into "projects" to repair equipment that had been correctly maintained by our company's resident maintenance squad at a time of our choosing - I think most of that could be seen to have been the outcome from day one, but progress is always "good" - or is it!

[AGFalco]

On 01/09/2020 at 22:08, rum4mo said:

I thought EU regs had forced car makers to design all the "legal requirement" lights to be able to have bulbs changed at the side of the road with tools supplied  with the car.

 

Had a Kia Ceed in on Tuesday that failed it's MOT on a front side / DLR bulb not working.

The bulb is LED and is part of the headlamp assembly unit only.

Front bumper off to replace the unit. They were quoted £725.00 to change it. 😮

The unit was over £600 to buy only.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

[Breezy_Pete]

^ Bargain! 😂

[rum4mo]

My comments probably predate the advent of LEDs fitted into car lighting cluster, or as everyone "knows" LEDs last for almost ever - if these light clusters are designed and built correctly.

 

Probably just a matter of time before a small business starts up offering a repair service - an opportunity for someone to fix some lights, maybe.

[AGFalco]

19 hours ago, rum4mo said:

Probably just a matter of time before a small business starts up offering a repair service

 

Already exist, we did suggest that to the owner. At that price there is a market.

Car passed the MOT today, but we noticed the other headlight side/DLR light flickering. 

 

Thanks, AG Falco

[lowedb]

1 hour ago, AGFalco said:

 

Car passed the MOT today, but we noticed the other headlight side/DLR light flickering. 

 

I'm going to be a pendantic 'person' here:

DLR = Docklands Light Railway.

DRL = Daytime Running Lights. (Or lamps).

 

I do know that for certain LED headlamps within VW AG, they made sure dealers could repair them with repair kits and training. No idea if that's still the case.

[Eccles]

Hmm, LED's last for ever do they? Not in my experience. Yet again t'other day an LED light bulb in a table lamp packed up after only 5 yrs, it just farted some smoke, made a quiet popping sound and went out, seen it before. IMO if it is difficult/impossible for the average owner to replace a light bulb, something is seriously wrong.

[rum4mo]

I'd think that the "LEDs last for ever" is only true for the actual LED chip(s), the weak area will be the rest of the system that constitutes an LED light assembly, and with domestic mains LED lights it will be the mains convertor that is built into these domestic light bulbs.

 

I'm thinking that in general average domestic use, a life of 5 years is good going, I've forgotten when I changed all our light bulbs to LED, but I'm well through the first round of failing bulbs, maybe I'm a bit sad, but when I replace LED light bulbs now, I write the start of use date on them - so that I can find out exactly how long they last.

[lowedb]

In my own experience with LEDS failing in a domestic situation, it has been the power supply in the lamp rather than the LEDs themselves, usually a capacitor losing capacitance. In a low voltage (car / caravan) situation all the failures I've come across are a result of poor resistance to water ingress meaning corrosion causes loss of a single chain of LEDs (they tend to be chained in threes or so). LEDs in and of themselves are not a problem, but poor application can soon cause unreliability.

[Ootohere]

You would think that by now Audi would stop using them in poor applications and there would not be so many new cars with failed lights.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  

[lowedb]

1 hour ago, e-Roottoot said:

You would think that by now Audi would stop using them in poor applications and there would not be so many new cars with failed lights.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  

TBF, It's only been in other brands that I've seen issues, oh and things like caravans. Have you seen something in particular that makes you pick aout Audi?

[Ootohere]

Your should go to Barnard Castle maybe.

I say Audis because in the Audi Capital of the UK for them being used as Taxis there are many with faulty lightlng.

Even new ones on trade plates. 

I suppose if the Audi Aberdeen dealership can not be bothered sorting them then drivers can not bother going to fix them.

 

This is not a BMW issue were the indicators might be faulty if you see them working.

[lowedb]

12 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

Your should go to Barnard Castle maybe.

 

That's a really helpful comment. Thanks.

[FZS1]

Trying to resolve  'vehicle power consumption high'  Fabia 3. Looking at some battery tests (VAS6161).  One says voltage measured 12.86v 414 A (DIN), another says voltage measured 12.26v 360A (DIN). Does anyone know what the (DIN) value represents? 

[KenONeill]

15 minutes ago, FZS1 said:

Does anyone know what the (DIN) value represents?

Deutsches Insitut fur Normung. The German member of the ISO. There are about 30_000 DIN standards so a more detailed answer would need the standard number.

[FZS1]

Thanks Ken - unfortunately the battery test printouts just say DIN.  It's a nightmare trying to get Skoda to do anything positive. They charge the battery and next day VPCH again. Over 20k miles in 2 years from new, regular 20 + mile  journeys. No starting or low battery issues at all

[rum4mo]

Take a look at your car's battery, it normally quotes the CCC rating in DIN and EN and others maybe SAE.

 

CCC is Cold Cranking Current in amps, and that measurement can be used to make an rough assessment of that battery's health I'd guess that your car battery is a 59Ah EFB with a CCA of 320A DIN / 640A EN, so the test is just showing that your battery is still okay.

[FZS1]

Thanks for your reply rum4mo, and yes it is a 59A/h battery. The thing is, that soon after the battery is put on charge, it's back to vehicle power consumption high. For example, battery charged by dealership and driven for 35 miles the next day, everything ok. 3 days later,  the car was driven 180 miles, 150 on motorways. Everything was ok except for VPCH for the first 10 miles. 3 days later, and the S/S system was not available once for a further 390 miles over 15 days. I had everything possible switched off, including daytime running lights.  At one point  when S/S was working, the dreaded VPCH appeared after 3 x S/S engine restarts, and didn't recover for the rest of that journey ( 5 miles).  I tried turning the ignition on, and one by one turning on lights, air con, full blower, wipers, heated rear window. S/S system was available. As soon as the engine was cranked over, VPCH appeared , and didn't recover. I'm certain that this is not how the S/S system is supposed to function, as It used to work as it should do.  I was given a list of parameters for S/S functionality to be available, and the only one I cannot eliminate as being met is 'sufficient battery capacity > 60%...' Anyone any ideas?

[rum4mo]

I wonder if now you should buy one of these cheap DVM that plug into the "ciggy lighter" socket, and then keep an eye on the voltage while driving, typically (though that is if the battery is already charged up to its preferred roughly 70% level - my guess), while accelerating and in normal use, the voltage will be quite low maybe round about 12.4V but when you are braking or on the overrun it should or could depending on present battery charge state, turn the charging voltage up to at least 14.5V sometimes even more for a short time.

 

Now if you find that it is never or not very often making use of the wasted engine power or momentum to charge the battery up, then I'd think that the charge control system dongle or that area of the car' controller needs recoding or replaced.

 

Once you have that info you could approach Skoda with it, okay the cheap plug in DVM is not an officially approved diagnostic tool and it will not be 100% accurate, but it will be easily accurate enough and give consistent readings so you can still use that to gauge the car's charge control system performance.

 

I'd think that Skoda has a well tested way of dealing with these issues:- during visit 1 check battery and recharge and sent customer away, if visit 2 happens now understand customer just can't be fobbed off so try something else - easiest one will be to replace the battery (at the customer's expense), if visit 3 happens you have a persistent customer that wants to pay for more - or maybe even start digging deeper and sort it out even if it means having to charge Skoda UK for your warranty support.

 

I'd be resisting "replace the battery at the customer's expense" option as they have tested that battery and it seems to still be fit for use.

[KenONeill]

This, or you have an undiagnosed power drain, see above regarding a DVM.